Wood Insert Question

[Rick8325]

Hello everyone, I'm new here sorry if this this topic has been covered a million times. I'm a city guy that has never had a fireplace. I've been living in a new house that has a very nice fireplace in the living room. The house is a 2 story colonial built in the 1950's. The fireplace was never really used by the previous owner. I checked the flue and it's very clean. The room with the fireplace is very cold, usually about 5-6 degrees colder than every other room in the house. I've been researching fireplaces and know that they aren't very efficient and it takes my hot conditioned air and blows it up through the chimney. Even though my living room is already cold, it's even colder when burning a fire and gives off zero heat. I bought one of those chimney blow up pillows and it's still cold, I bought a glass fireplace trim and door and it's still cold. So, even though I have gas heat and it's fairly cheap, we decided to go with a wood burning insert with a blower to supplement the heating bills. I am able to get all the seasoned wood I want so that was the reason instead of gas or pellet inserts. After some shopping, we decided on a Quadra-Fire Voyageur. All the clearances were met. It should arrive at the stove shop where I bought it from either today or tomorrow in which I will pick it up. The chimney is on an outside wall. It's about 30-35 feet high. I ended up buying a 35 foot 6 inch round stainless liner with the cap kit. The stove shop I bought the insert from does not install them but they did recommend someone. He wanted about $750 but we agreed on $600 because I was to pick up the stove from the shop myself. I'm pretty handy with tools and installing things and I'm pretty sure I can install this insert myself with a couple of friends but I've heard that it's Massachusetts law that a licensed contractor has to do it. I also have to get a permit through my town in which I have the application and ready to submit it. I've tried calling about 20 other installers and everyone was booked solid until February. I'm going to end up going with the installer the stove shop recommended for an install date in December. My only concerns with the install was the damper removal and what would go in it's place. I know the 6" liner will need to be ovalized a little to fit through the 5-5.5" rectangular damper when it's removed and the installer said he would put a piece of sheet metal there to block the area. My other concern was the liner. He didn't mention that it would or should need to be insulated. The price just included the installation and not materials. Should I just go and buy a 1/2" thick insulation kit and have it ready or do I really not need the insulation because it's a taller stack? Because it's so hard to find someone to install this time of year I want to make sure the install goes smoothly and that I have everything needed. From what I'm being told this installer is booked every day even on Sunday's.

 

[mellow]

I would insulate the liner, due to it being an exterior chimney and if it has cracks in the terracotta you would need to anyway. Buy the kit and put it on the liner before the install, it isn't hard to do.

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[Rick8325]

I just ordered one. I don't know if this is allowed on this forum but could anyone local to me (MA - North Shore-So.NH) recommend through private message a licensed installer that isn't so booked until the end of winter that knows what they're doing?

 

[begreen]

Type in your zip code here: (broken link removed to http://nficertified.org/pages_consumers/consumers-1.cfm)

 

[Dave A.]

+1 on the insulated liner, and with the cold issue in that room, good to get the block off plate with roxul insulation above, and maybe even insulation behind the insert.

Rather than ovalizing through the damper, I'd think about cutting the damper frame out and maybe even cut out a brick or two if necessary, to get it to go through round. It will be a lot easier cleaning it if it's round all the way up.

No experience on this myself, just from following other message threads, am wondering about downsizing to 5.5 with that 35 feet of chimney. You may be in for some overdrafting issues with that length flue.

Edit: now that we see the chimney is only about 20', you can ignore that last paragraph above.

 

[Lighting Up]

I know the feeling when one room feels colder then the others...the best thing you could do for that room or the whole house was buy a insert... With all the wood you can get your hands on your going to love the heat you get from wood...nothing better. Keep us updated...your going to be burning differently then the fireplace was, so make sure that wood is seasoned at least a year for the best heat. Good luck with the install...

 

[Rick8325]

Thanks for the replies guys! The liner insulation is coming today. Now I just have to figure out what to do at the damper. Do they not make special damper insulation kits? I know most dampers are probably different sizes though. I may just buy a piece of sheet metal and put some roxul behind it. Should I also plug the ash pit door on the floor of the fireplace? One installer said there's no need to insulate the open area around the damper because the top of the chimney would be sealed with the metal plate that comes with the cap kit. He also said that stuffing insulation around the liner at the insert wouldn't hurt. Here's a picture of the chimney. I bought 35' of liner and insulation but it may only be 30 feet or less but I can't climb up there with no ladder and I'd rather have more than less so I guesstimated it. It's so hard finding someone who isn't booked solid to install this insert.
(broken image removed)

 

[begreen]

there are blockoff plate kits available or just make your own.

 

[Dave A.]

Should I also plug the ash pit door on the floor of the fireplace?

Might want to conceal the cord for the blower by running it down the ash pit.

 

[Rick8325]

Might want to conceal the cord for the blower by running it down the ash pit.

I wanted to do that but I guess there is a regulation that says the cord has to be plugged into an outlet within reach or on the same floor level as the appliance. It stinks because I could have ran it underneath to the crawlspace and plugged it into an outlet in the basement.

 

[Dave A.]

Actually just recently read another message (don't recall exactly which thread) where a pro installer does that whenever possible, and I've heard it elsewhere. So I'd double check your idea that it's prohibited. I mean you have the off switch on the front. And there is the breaker/fuse.

And Travis sells a box/wiring kit for installation of the plug in the firebox--covered up with the insert surround--no ready access to the plug. If it's just your installer saying it's prohibited, I'd suspect they just don't want to do it.

Edit: Also, if the issue is being able to unplug on the same floor, you could always run an extension cord up through the pit so that the blower plug could be plugged in inside the fireplace.

 

[Sons924]

After installed please report back on the performance of that quadrafire. Good idea doing everything right the first time. Cut out the damper so the 6 inch insulated liner can fit all the way down. Definetly build the block off plate and stuff roxul above the plate.

 

[Rick8325]

Actually just recently read another message (don't recall exactly which thread) where a pro installer does that whenever possible, and I've heard it elsewhere. So I'd double check your idea that it's prohibited. I mean you have the off switch on the front. And there is the breaker/fuse.

And Travis sells a box/wiring kit for installation of the plug in the firebox--covered up with the insert surround--no ready access to the plug. If it's just your installer saying it's prohibited, I'd suspect they just don't want to do it.

Edit: Also, if the issue is being able to unplug on the same floor, you could always run an extension cord up through the pit so that the blower plug could be plugged in inside the fireplace.

I live in Massachusetts, everything is prohibited. I think the extension cord idea is the same, the outlet has to be on the same floor of the appliance. Especially if the appliance is permanently installed. I'm pretty certain extension cords cannot be ran through walls and floors. I can check specific codes and regulations about the electrical aspect of this install and go back an do any electrical work myself as I've done plenty in the past, but the outlet is right next to the fireplace and I'll have to see first if looking at the wire bothers either my wife or myself first.