Woodstock, BlazeKing, Vermont Castings...who to go with?!

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,838
Southern IN
What's upstairs, bedrooms? If the great room is 630 sq.ft. maybe 1600 is the total including upstairs?
How high is the fireplace lintel?
Have you given much thought to cat vs. non-cat stoves? Non-cats are probably "simpler, less maintenance."
We'll need a closeup pic of the "wormy Chestnut" wood.. ==c
 
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georgepds

Minister of Fire
Nov 25, 2012
873
Re Guess I wondered if compared to the other Woodstock models for anyone who used them how performance for the 1600 sq ft would be.

My house is 1500 ft^2., insulated. I heat without problems with my PH

As to looks, visitors say they like it, as does my wife. Function and beauty.... you can't go wrong with this choice

Re You will need a ceiling fan for sure.
I agree

Re I too had a stone stove and it looks really nice but i did not like the very slow warm up period. It sucked.

It is slow to reach temperature, and slow to lose it.On the PH there is a big window, sit in front of it, and you'll be warm even early in the burn
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,366
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
You can call the Woodstock people and they will help you choose. You need a big one, I only see the two choices ph or IS. You hear people getting long burns with the IS but not so much with the PH if that range of output is valuable to you.
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
4,445
07462
You can call the Woodstock people and they will help you choose. You need a big one, I only see the two choices ph or IS. You hear people getting long burns with the IS but not so much with the PH if that range of output is valuable to you.
Yes but at the same time I've heard that Woodstock goes the extra step to make sure the stove isn't oversized either, apparently they had a rash of people returning stoves back to them because they were overheating the homes.
 

old greybeard

New Member
Oct 29, 2018
27
PA
From another Pennsylvanian who has a open floor and high ceiling cabin I’d recommend the biggest stove you can get. Took out a old airtight and put in a Lopi 1750 and regret it. The new epa stoves don’t radiate heat, and I went with one rated at well over my square footage. If I had it to do over again I’d buy the big Englander from Home Depot, or find a used big PA made Harman coal stove.
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,838
Southern IN
How well are you going to insulate and air-seal it? Getting new windows?
Woodstock's "area heated" ratings are quite conservative. With good weatherization, I'd guess the Fireview should handle it. The reason I switched from it to the Keystone is that I wanted the big window, and I was spoiled on the grated ash system from when I burned the Dutchwest. It would be interesting to see how well the Keystone would do in there, but it might be iffy. Safe bet would be the PH, and it has it all; Big window, grated floor and ash pan, and that delicious radiant heat. Sitting in the stove room, you'll be able to feel it 20' away. The radiation should balance the heat better between upstairs and down.
It sounds like you are thinking of putting the stove somewhere else but I would use the fireplace and rear-vent a Woodstock in there. That's why I asked about lintel height, but it looks like enough. It'll be a clean look, with no pipe visible. You'll still get a nice view of the fire, and you'll get heat in the bargain...plus it will look fabulous and well-scaled in that hearth setting. >>
I've heard that Woodstock goes the extra step to make sure the stove isn't oversized either, apparently they had a rash of people returning stoves back to them because they were overheating the homes.
That shouldn't be a problem with the PH in that space, since you can turn it down to a cat-only burn and take the secondary out of the equation (hybrid stove in case the OP isn't familiar.) They do say "heats 2200 ft. easily," though..I'd ask them for sure.
I knew I would go down a notch in heat output going from the Fireview to the Keystone, but figured I could make up for that with better weatherization. It's still a little harder to keep up in windy, single-digit weather, and it might get down into the upper 60s in here on occasion, but I still have more air-sealing to do.
From another Pennsylvanian who has a open floor and high ceiling cabin I’d recommend the biggest stove you can get. Took out a old airtight and put in a Lopi 1750 and regret it. The new epa stoves don’t radiate heat, and I went with one rated at well over my square footage.
Most companies "area heated" ratings as a rule aren't as conservative as Woodstock's. We have a cabin here, only 1000 sq.ft. and no loft. Attic insulation helped but there's no wall insulation, and wind gets between the logs and the wallboard, pulling heat from the room. When I get the air leaks around the corner logs sealed, I expect to do better in cold, windy conditions. Sounds like his place may be sealed with exterior stone..
Oh yeah, we'll need some pics of the outside of this place as well. :)
 
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Joyboy

Burning Hunk
Jan 22, 2017
184
Wyoming
How well are you going to insulate and air-seal it? Getting new windows?
Woodstock's "area heated" ratings are quite conservative. With good weatherization, I'd guess the Fireview should handle it. The reason I switched from it to the Keystone is that I wanted the big window, and I was spoiled on the grated ash system from when I burned the Dutchwest. It would be interesting to see how well the Keystone would do in there, but it might be iffy. Safe bet would be the PH, and it has it all; Big window, grated floor and ash pan, and that delicious radiant heat. Sitting in the stove room, you'll be able to feel it 20' away. The radiation should balance the heat better between upstairs and down.
It sounds like you are thinking of putting the stove somewhere else but I would use the fireplace and rear-vent a Woodstock in there. That's why I asked about lintel height, but it looks like enough. It'll be a clean look, with no pipe visible. You'll still get a nice view of the fire, and you'll get heat in the bargain...plus it will look fabulous and well-scaled in that hearth setting. >>
That shouldn't be a problem with the PH in that space, since you can turn it down to a cat-only burn and take the secondary out of the equation (hybrid stove in case the OP isn't familiar.) They do say "heats 2200 ft. easily," though..I'd ask them for sure.
I knew I would go down a notch in heat output going from the Fireview to the Keystone, but figured I could make up for that with better weatherization. It's still a little harder to keep up in windy, single-digit weather, and it might get down into the upper 60s in here on occasion, but I still have more air-sealing to do.
Most companies "area heated" ratings as a rule aren't as conservative as Woodstock's. We have a cabin here, only 1000 sq.ft. and no loft. Attic insulation helped but there's no wall insulation, and wind gets between the logs and the wallboard, pulling heat from the room. When I get the air leaks around the corner logs sealed, I expect to do better in cold, windy conditions. Sounds like his place may be sealed with exterior stone..
Oh yeah, we'll need some pics of the outside of this place as well. :)
I think Woodstock is very conservative on “area heated” compared to most other manufacturers.

The Quadrafire explorer 3 says it heats up to 4000 feet but has a max btu output of 70k. The progress has a max btu of 75k and is rated for 2200 feet. Misleading? Maybe not, it’s all if you are looking at best case or at worst case. You do have to take these things with a grain of salt.

I mention this because on another post a member wasn’t considering a progress because the rated square feet was lower.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,921
Downeast Maine
I think Woodstock is very conservative on “area heated” compared to most other manufacturers.

The Quadrafire explorer 3 says it heats up to 4000 feet but has a max btu output of 70k. The progress has a max btu of 75k and is rated for 2200 feet. Misleading? Maybe not, it’s all if you are looking at best case or at worst case. You do have to take these things with a grain of salt.

I mention this because on another post a member wasn’t considering a progress because the rated square feet was lower.
The EPA output for my stove, 12-26k, and the claimed output, 35k, are kind of far apart and it's only rated to 1,200 sqft. Morso I think was spot on with their assessment if not a bit under selling it. I don't know WTF the EPA was doing with this stove. I saw some real sketchy ratings while I was stove shopping. It makes it difficult to shop for a stove for a well insulated house. I see how Woodstock had issues with people cooking themselves out. I can't imagine a PH in any 2200 sqft house I've ever lived in!
 
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Farenheit 451

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
47
Pittsburgh
What's upstairs, bedrooms? If the great room is 630 sq.ft. maybe 1600 is the total including upstairs?
How high is the fireplace lintel?
Have you given much thought to cat vs. non-cat stoves? Non-cats are probably "simpler, less maintenance."
We'll need a closeup pic of the "wormy Chestnut" wood.. ==c
Our master BR is upstairs on the other end of the house and just another bath and spare room. We have 8 ft openings which will have sliding barn doors to let in as much heat as possible from downstairs.

Honestly very preliminary understanding of cat vs non cat but think I’m likely to go with the cat option.
 

Farenheit 451

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
47
Pittsburgh
I think Woodstock is very conservative on “area heated” compared to most other manufacturers.

The Quadrafire explorer 3 says it heats up to 4000 feet but has a max btu output of 70k. The progress has a max btu of 75k and is rated for 2200 feet. Misleading? Maybe not, it’s all if you are looking at best case or at worst case. You do have to take these things with a grain of salt.

I mention this because on another post a member wasn’t considering a progress because the rated square feet was lower.
I think with the very open floor plan and likelihood that even after insulating it will be prone to be cold I definitely want something that is more than capable of heating beyond what I’ve already got. Seems the PH will do that assuming it performs as claimed.
 

Farenheit 451

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
47
Pittsburgh
How well are you going to insulate and air-seal it? Getting new windows?
Woodstock's "area heated" ratings are quite conservative. With good weatherization, I'd guess the Fireview should handle it. The reason I switched from it to the Keystone is that I wanted the big window, and I was spoiled on the grated ash system from when I burned the Dutchwest. It would be interesting to see how well the Keystone would do in there, but it might be iffy. Safe bet would be the PH, and it has it all; Big window, grated floor and ash pan, and that delicious radiant heat. Sitting in the stove room, you'll be able to feel it 20' away. The radiation should balance the heat better between upstairs and down.
It sounds like you are thinking of putting the stove somewhere else but I would use the fireplace and rear-vent a Woodstock in there. That's why I asked about lintel height, but it looks like enough. It'll be a clean look, with no pipe visible. You'll still get a nice view of the fire, and you'll get heat in the bargain...plus it will look fabulous and well-scaled in that hearth setting. >>
That shouldn't be a problem with the PH in that space, since you can turn it down to a cat-only burn and take the secondary out of the equation (hybrid stove in case the OP isn't familiar.) They do say "heats 2200 ft. easily," though..I'd ask them for sure.
I knew I would go down a notch in heat output going from the Fireview to the Keystone, but figured I could make up for that with better weatherization. It's still a little harder to keep up in windy, single-digit weather, and it might get down into the upper 60s in here on occasion, but I still have more air-sealing to do.
Most companies "area heated" ratings as a rule aren't as conservative as Woodstock's. We have a cabin here, only 1000 sq.ft. and no loft. Attic insulation helped but there's no wall insulation, and wind gets between the logs and the wallboard, pulling heat from the room. When I get the air leaks around the corner logs sealed, I expect to do better in cold, windy conditions. Sounds like his place may be sealed with exterior stone..
Oh yeah, we'll need some pics of the outside of this place as well. :)
See I prefer the look of the Fireview but maxes out at 1600 sq ft and feel like I don’t want to risk it given this is essentially my only heat source other than some electric radiator heat to keep pipes from freezing if we are away for more than a few days. I suppose I’ll stick with the PH but do wish it was more customizable.

I’ve been thinking more and more about putting it where the stone fireplace is and be done with it, that would be right under our bedroom area so no worries about heat not making it the whole way to the other end of the house. My wife will likely try to fight me on that because she thinks the fireplace is pretty to watch and sit in front of and doesn’t seem to understand, despite my attempts to explain to her, that a standard fireplace is not a wise way to heat because it draws cold air in from outside. I don’t disagree with her that it’s a nice view but not sure how worth it it would be to have a beautiful awesome Soapstone stove on one side and a fireplace on the opposite. Can’t imagine having a need for both as the stone fireplace would be mostly aesthetics.

Admittedly I need better pics of the inside and out for you guys. I’ll try and get some more when I’m down there working on it again this weekend.
 

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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,838
Southern IN
See I prefer the look of the Fireview but maxes out at 1600 sq ft and feel like I don’t want to risk it given this is essentially my only heat source other than some electric radiator heat to keep pipes from freezing if we are away for more than a few days. I suppose I’ll stick with the PH but do wish it was more customizable.

I’ve been thinking more and more about putting it where the stone fireplace is and be done with it, that would be right under our bedroom area so no worries about heat not making it the whole way to the other end of the house. My wife will likely try to fight me on that because she thinks the fireplace is pretty to watch and sit in front of and doesn’t seem to understand, despite my attempts to explain to her, that a standard fireplace is not a wise way to heat because it draws cold air in from outside. I don’t disagree with her that it’s a nice view but not sure how worth it it would be to have a beautiful awesome Soapstone stove on one side and a fireplace on the opposite. Can’t imagine having a need for both as the stone fireplace would be mostly aesthetics.

Admittedly I need better pics of the inside and out for you guys. I’ll try and get some more when I’m down there working on it again this weekend.
Oh, I see, kind of a salt box deal. Great pics. Absolutely gorgeous place..with a creek running through, even! Hey, is this photo-shopped? ;lol
What is the other chimney? Basement, I guess?
And I see that the wood-harvesting has already begun..first things first (dry wood.)
My, your better half is quite the firebug, isn't she? ;) She won't miss the fireplace when she sees the show that the PH can put on. And with it, heating that place will be no problem whatsoever.
 
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Neurotoxin

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
18
Northern Ontario
Beautiful cottage!!!

Have you or would you consider a Hearthstone woodstove? I know of several people here in Northern Ontario who heat larger homes very well with them. The most impressive is the Equinox....it's beautiful, gives off amazing heat, takes 24' logs, and has long burn time.
 
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Bigkahuna427

New Member
Sep 2, 2018
12
Maine
Looks like a pretty cool place indeed. With a house like that I would seek the advise of an energy efficiency consultant. There is a bit of a learning curve to get on board but no matter how you heat the place it will be less if you focus on their suggestions. I do a lot of new construction built to code which is a minimum standard for energy efficiency. Basically a new construction home built to code are the least energy efficient new homes you can buy. Most people are pretty surprised to hear that efficiency improvements in new construction focus on insulation and air sealing not boilers and windows.

I just updated my thread about my new Woodstock Progress Hybrid. The thread started with looking into Hearthstone and or just using an old Jotul in my basement so it is not titled correctly. Look at the performance specs on the Progress stove. It will easily heat that place and burn less wood doing so. I have done 16+ hour burn times using Ash and 12+ hours using hardwood is pretty easy. It took some time to get used to running this stove but it will run for a very long time on just hot coals. We usually run it non stop 24/7 with the draft completely closed or just barely cracked open. When we first got it in 30 and 40 degree weather the heat was a bit overwhelming so we would open windows. In sub zero weather we walk around barefoot wearing shorts and T-shirts.
 
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Farenheit 451

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
47
Pittsburgh
Beautiful cottage!!!

Have you or would you consider a Hearthstone woodstove? I know of several people here in Northern Ontario who heat larger homes very well with them. The most impressive is the Equinox....it's beautiful, gives off amazing heat, takes 24' logs, and has long burn time.
I’ve only skimmed Hearthstone but honestly I like their look better than any Woodstock stove. I didn’t know how they compared in terms of quality and longevity. Woodstock has gotten such good reviews everywhere I’ve gone I haven’t heard a single bad thing about them. Would you/others say Hearthstone is equivalent to Woodstock? I’m prettt sold on the radiant heat a soapstone stoce gives.
 

Farenheit 451

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
47
Pittsburgh
Looks like a pretty cool place indeed. With a house like that I would seek the advise of an energy efficiency consultant. There is a bit of a learning curve to get on board but no matter how you heat the place it will be less if you focus on their suggestions. I do a lot of new construction built to code which is a minimum standard for energy efficiency. Basically a new construction home built to code are the least energy efficient new homes you can buy. Most people are pretty surprised to hear that efficiency improvements in new construction focus on insulation and air sealing not boilers and windows.

I just updated my thread about my new Woodstock Progress Hybrid. The thread started with looking into Hearthstone and or just using an old Jotul in my basement so it is not titled correctly. Look at the performance specs on the Progress stove. It will easily heat that place and burn less wood doing so. I have done 16+ hour burn times using Ash and 12+ hours using hardwood is pretty easy. It took some time to get used to running this stove but it will run for a very long time on just hot coals. We usually run it non stop 24/7 with the draft completely closed or just barely cracked open. When we first got it in 30 and 40 degree weather the heat was a bit overwhelming so we would open windows. In sub zero weather we walk around barefoot wearing shorts and T-shirts.
Bare feet in subzero temps sounds amazing!
 

jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
4,272
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
If you are dead set on a soapstone stove and want a big heater, get one with the least possible amount of soapstone on it.

Soapstone is a very poor conductor of heat compared to steel or iron.

The marketing department might call it "gentle heat" rather than "mostly-goes-up-the-flue" heat, but making a fanciful brochure doesn't change the thermal conductivity of soapstone.
 
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illini81

Feeling the Heat
Apr 7, 2017
323
Southeastern CT
If you are dead set on a soapstone stove and want a big heater, get one with the least possible amount of soapstone on it.

Soapstone is a very poor conductor of heat compared to steel or iron.

The marketing department might call it "gentle heat" rather than "mostly-goes-up-the-flue" heat, but making a fanciful brochure doesn't change the thermal conductivity of soapstone.
I could be off base here, but my understanding is that stoves primarily transfer heat by radiation and convection. Conductivity isn't really a factor. Could be wrong though.
 

Bigkahuna427

New Member
Sep 2, 2018
12
Maine
If you are dead set on a soapstone stove and want a big heater, get one with the least possible amount of soapstone on it.

Soapstone is a very poor conductor of heat compared to steel or iron.

The marketing department might call it "gentle heat" rather than "mostly-goes-up-the-flue" heat, but making a fanciful brochure doesn't change the thermal conductivity of soapstone.
The only thing I would say about this is that if you are looking for a stove that heats up and cools down quick this isn't it. This stove is 700 pounds and that is a lot of thermal mass to heat up. It does take a while to get going as well as cool off. We have experienced too much heat in November when it is in the 40 or 50s during the day and perhaps below freezing at night. My experience I would trust the (I think it was 83%) efficiency rating. Not sure what that same rating would be while the stove is heating up.
 

Farenheit 451

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
47
Pittsburgh
The only thing I would say about this is that if you are looking for a stove that heats up and cools down quick this isn't it. This stove is 700 pounds and that is a lot of thermal mass to heat up. It does take a while to get going as well as cool off. We have experienced too much heat in November when it is in the 40 or 50s during the day and perhaps below freezing at night. My experience I would trust the (I think it was 83%) efficiency rating. Not sure what that same rating would be while the stove is heating up.
Being this is my first exp with using wood stove heat exclusively it may be hard for me to foresee how I’d feel about it. However I’d say I’m doubtful I’m picky about it getting up quick enough for me. But that is a good consideration for me to think on. Seems like that would be the case with any soapstone situation.
 

Neurotoxin

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
18
Northern Ontario
I have no experience nor do I know anyone with a Woodstock stove. The couple of people I know that have the Hearthstones rave about them. The one guy heats his 2000sqtf 1970’s open concept home very well with his.....I’m always amazed when I go over and only see a little fire on and its like -30 outside. It radiates heat like no tomorrow. He works 12 hour shift and is commonly not home for 14hrs at a time....stove works perfectly reloading after that. Most people who own them can’t shut up about them lol
 
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georgepds

Minister of Fire
Nov 25, 2012
873
Re cold

It is 0F outside, ad 75F inside with the PH here in th Northeast


Seems to keep up with the cold fairly well. The problem, if anything, is keeping it below 80F
 

ddddddden

Minister of Fire
Oct 20, 2009
1,487
Central Va
Would you/others say Hearthstone is equivalent to Woodstock?
No.
I'll let Highbeam tell you all about Hearthstone, since he used to burn one.

As a Fireview user, with a house about the same size as yours, in a slightly warmer climate, I would go with the PH...or IS, maybe AS.

Call Woodstock, and they will tell you to ignore/de-emphasize the sq ft ratings for stoves, because it depends on house sealing + insulation. Fireview might be about the right size for your house if it were well sealed + insulated, but since we don't know how well your weatherization project will turn out, I would err on the side of a bigger stove.
Also, with your layout, the heat is going to want to collect up in the ceiling. If a larger stove overheats you, just turn off the ceiling fan and let all that heat go up.

Otherwise, if you go with the Fireview, and if the house doesn't get insulated + sealed well, you might find yourself needing to load the FV 4x /day
(2x / day is standard for me.)

It's a very nice stove, but one thing it is not good at is chewing through a load of wood in 5 hours. High burn is not it's most efficient rate. Users who have had to push the FV like this have had problems with coals building up...can't fit a whole new load of wood in the firebox 5 hours later.

I think that most cases of a big stove "running you out" of the room with too much heat refer specifically to the stove room...and since your stove room is the whole house, I doubt you will have that problem. Way more likely that the FV would turn out to be too small for you.
 
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Farenheit 451

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
47
Pittsburgh
No.
I'll let Highbeam tell you all about Hearthstone, since he used to burn one.

As a Fireview user, with a house about the same size as yours, in a slightly warmer climate, I would go with the PH...or IS, maybe AS.

Call Woodstock, and they will tell you to ignore/de-emphasize the sq ft ratings for stoves, because it depends on house sealing + insulation. Fireview might be about the right size for your house if it were well sealed + insulated, but since we don't know how well your weatherization project will turn out, I would err on the side of a bigger stove.
Also, with your layout, the heat is going to want to collect up in the ceiling. If a larger stove overheats you, just turn off the ceiling fan and let all that heat go up.

Otherwise, if you go with the Fireview, and if the house doesn't get insulated + sealed well, you might find yourself needing to load the FV 4x /day
(2x / day is standard for me.)

It's a very nice stove, but one thing it is not good at is chewing through a load of wood in 5 hours. High burn is not it's most efficient rate. Users who have had to push the FV like this have had problems with coals building up...can't fit a whole new load of wood in the firebox 5 hours later.

I think that most cases of a big stove "running you out" of the room with too much heat refer specifically to the stove room...and since your stove room is the whole house, I doubt you will have that problem. Way more likely that the FV would turn out to be too small for you.
THANK YOU! This is exactly the feedback I was looking for and great to hear from someone who has used the Fireview. I’m in agreement, probably ordering today in metallic gray! I’ll post pics once I get it and the renovations are done. Very excited to see how stunning my new home will be with the addition of the PH :)
 
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