Woodstock Customer Service

[TheRambler]

Mods, if this is an inappropiate forum section please move it to the correct place.

Anyone else having issues with Woodstock customer service lately?

Despite what i have seen and heard from elsewhere I don't think they are anywhere near caught up on soapstone stoves. Not sure about the ISs. I have been getting the run around every time I call recently. Been promised 4 different ship dates and now all have fallen through. Very Very frustrating at this point because i am trying to coordinate the delivery with movers and the sale of my old wood stove. Every time i call i get a different story. I always heard praises here and elsewhere about how great their customer service is, and i know they are behind, but this is just about the opposite of great customer service in my opinion.
They shouldnt be telling people their stove will 100% for sure ship on X date if they really have no clue, especially four times. Promised 1/2, then 1/6, then 1/7, and was guranteed for certain, no doubt about it that my stove was built on 1/7 and would be shipped out per my new requested date of 1/12. Called today to make sure all was still good to go, and was told it wasn't built and that it wouldnt be shipping on the 12th either., and that they would "try" to let me know a firm date when they can.

If i wasn't really wanting to get a Progress Hybrid i would be very tempted to cancel my order about now.

 

[Tenn Dave]

Mods, if this is an inappropiate forum section please move it to the correct place.

Anyone else having issues with Woodstock customer service lately?

Despite what i have seen and heard from elsewhere I don't think they are anywhere near caught up on soapstone stoves. Not sure about the ISs. I have been getting the run around every time I call recently. Been promised 4 different ship dates and now all have fallen through. Very Very frustrating at this point because i am trying to coordinate the delivery with movers and the sale of my old wood stove. Every time i call i get a different story. I always heard praises here and elsewhere about how great their customer service is, and i know they are behind, but this is just about the opposite of great customer service in my opinion.
They shouldnt be telling people their stove will 100% for sure ship on X date if they really have no clue, especially four times. Promised 1/2, then 1/6, then 1/7, and was guranteed for certain, no doubt about it that my stove was built on 1/7 and would be shipped out per my new requested date of 1/12. Called today to make sure all was still good to go, and was told it wasn't built and that it wouldnt be shipping on the 12th either., and that they would "try" to let me know a firm date when they can.

If i wasn't really wanting to get a Progress Hybrid i would be very tempted to cancel my order about now.

I can imagine how frustrating this must be for you. But trust me, it ill be worth the wait. The good folks at Woodstock have been under a tremendous amount of pressure meeting surging demand for their new IS stoves and sourcing a new casting facility in Europe. However, Woodstock would rather take a little extra time up front to make sure everything is right. And believe me, if the time ever comes that you need their support post purchase, you will thank your lucky stars that you have a company like them behind you. I know from experience !

 

[weatherguy]

I'd be pulling my hair out about now but you'll be glad you waited when you fire that PH up. I can say this stove has surpassed my expectations and like TDave said once you own a stove and have a problem they'll take care of you.

 

[begreen]

I'd be very frustrated too. They are losing credibility by not telling the customer a date that they will meet and stick to. This is not good customer service, regardless of the product. It would also help if they communicated better. There is no mention of the past several months delays on their website. The blog has been silent since August. The sudden closing of Efel was catastrophically bad timing, but at least let folks know what's going on.

 

[Air_cooled_driver]

Mods, if this is an inappropiate forum section please move it to the correct place.

Anyone else having issues with Woodstock customer service lately?

Despite what i have seen and heard from elsewhere I don't think they are anywhere near caught up on soapstone stoves. Not sure about the ISs. I have been getting the run around every time I call recently. Been promised 4 different ship dates and now all have fallen through. Very Very frustrating at this point because i am trying to coordinate the delivery with movers and the sale of my old wood stove. Every time i call i get a different story. I always heard praises here and elsewhere about how great their customer service is, and i know they are behind, but this is just about the opposite of great customer service in my opinion.
They shouldnt be telling people their stove will 100% for sure ship on X date if they really have no clue, especially four times. Promised 1/2, then 1/6, then 1/7, and was guranteed for certain, no doubt about it that my stove was built on 1/7 and would be shipped out per my new requested date of 1/12. Called today to make sure all was still good to go, and was told it wasn't built and that it wouldnt be shipping on the 12th either., and that they would "try" to let me know a firm date when they can.

If i wasn't really wanting to get a Progress Hybrid i would be very tempted to cancel my order about now.

This is virtually identical to my experience last fall. I was very frustrated--I wanted a PH, but a new stove of any kind would've been better than the perfect stove that I couldn't get. As soon as I told them I wanted to cancel, the stove got shipped. I absolutely love it--but it was a frustrating experience and nearly didn't happen. Post-sale they have been great.

 

[Tenn Dave]

I'd be very frustrated too. They are losing credibility by not telling the customer a date that they will meet and stick to. This is not good customer service, regardless of the product. It would also help if they communicated better. There is no mention of the past several months delays on their website. The blog has been silent since August. The sudden closing of Efel was catastrophically bad timing, but at least let folks know what's going on.

Woodstock's Facebook page, and thought it might be worth sharing here:

Woodstock Soapstone Company An Open Letter to Customers Awaiting Stoves

Dear Pending Soapstone Family,

We ask for patience with our production delays.

We are in full production with our Progress, Fireview, and Ideal Steel woodstoves, and limited production of our Keystone/Palladian woodstoves after a series of difficult changes and challenges. I am writing you today with a respectful explanation of the status of our production schedule and its impact of the delivery of your new stove.

We have had a series of supply chain problems over the last few years, but our worst problem/interruption occurred in June, 2014 when one of our most important suppliers, a 100 year old foundry in Belgium and our primary cast iron supplier for the last 26 years, went bankrupt and closed after struggling financially for almost a year.

During their final months we were on a roller coaster with them; first they were closing, then not closing. We stayed with them out of loyalty and appreciation for their supply of high quality castings over many years, but they were unable to continue in operation.

Immediately, we sought alternative solutions. Woodstock Soapstone uses three other foundries in addition to the foundry in Belgium, but all of them have experienced financial problems and/or shutdowns in the last few years. Finding a replacement supplier for the high quality castings Belgium had supplied was not an easy thing to do.

Finally in late July 2014 we successfully moved all our Belgian foundry tooling (two full tractor trailer loads) to another European foundry. We paid to modify our tooling to fit new, larger automatic molding machines. We flew to Europe and approved sample castings in early September. Our first container shipments were scheduled to arrive in early October. Relief had come! We were slightly behind schedule, but were poised to catch up.

Instead the first container arrived November 17 due to unforeseen delays with not only the initial shipper, but also with the steamship line, the port of New York, customs (homeland security!) and land transit.

This has been incredibly frustrating and demanding for all of us at Woodstock Soapstone, and for our customers, but my objective, as always, is to keep producing state of the art quality stoves and provide the best customer service in the industry. No one can interrupt, delay or hinder that aspect of Woodstock Soapstone. We are always here for our customers.

I cannot apologize enough for any and all delays and inconveniences caused by our recent supply interruptions. It’s a chapter that’s taken a toll on all of us. Our staff in both the factory and office have been working well beyond their 40 hour weeks to get stoves to you as quickly as possible.

It’s clear that we have let many of you down. I am humbled and very sorry. This has been one of the few times in my career at Woodstock Soapstone Company where having a long backorder has not been a happy event. Even though we have received more orders than we ever forecast, a significant part of our backorder is due to supply problems and we take full responsibility.

There is always some good news. We are back in production with our cast iron/soapstone stoves. We are backordered, and now that the above problem with casting supply has been remedied, we are back on track and building stoves every day.

To all the IDEAL STEEL Hybrid family, I want you to know that the development of an all steel stove (your model) was a part of this story I’d like to further share. The IDEAL STEEL’s initial design was on the drawing board as another cast iron/soapstone stove (not named IDEAL STEEL at the time), when the Belgium foundry first began to experience financial problems. We could see that our other sources of cast iron were also experiencing difficulties. Time for a change.

The solution? We decided we would make a steel stove and have it manufactured in the United States... right here at our NH factory out of 100% domestic raw materials. In the past year we have installed laser and water jet steel cutting equipment, several large press brakes, and added many new full time welding and fabrication positions. We are growing jobs with our new product. I am very proud of our completely USA based new product and manufacturing.

We are doing the very best we can to fill orders and keep you on schedule and happy. I am very aware this is the time of year people need their stoves and very sensitive to all of the aspects of bringing a wood or gas stove into your home. I realize there can be much involved with logistics. Any inconveniences from us I also apologize for.

Many backordered stoves will be shipped in the next few weeks, but certainly not all. For customers whose stove shipments are deferred until January, we will pay half of the freight charges. For customers who are willing to wait until February for shipment, we will offer free shipping (business or terminal delivery in the 48 contiguous states).

Lastly, I understand your frustration and take responsibility for not ramping up communication about this with all of you at an earlier time, but I truly thought our supply problems would be resolved in time to meet all scheduled shipments.

If you can wait until January or February for shipment, please let us know and we will adjust your shipping charges accordingly. If your shipment is time sensitive, and immediate shipment is critical, please let us know and we will see if we can meet your needs. Woodstock Soapstone Company will immediately refund any and all money paid to us for any customer who wants to cancel their order. Of course, we hope you will patient and understanding, and we think that you will find that our stoves are worth the wait.

Very truly yours,
Thomas Morrissey, President
Woodstock Soapstone Company
1-800-866-4344

 

[begreen]

Very heartfelt and helpful. They should put this letter on their website too in order to reach more of their customers. A lot of people don't do Facebook.

 

[DougA]

A lot of people don't do Facebook.

+1

 

[TheRambler]

I saw that letter a while back, and completely understand they are behind and working hard. I dont understand why they didnt send it to their customers, at least via email at a minimum.

My real issue is them blatantly lieing to me. Dont tell me my stove is built and ready to ship if its not. Don't promise me a specific ship date if you know you cant meet it.

I really dont mind waiting, not at all, but i have two other parties involved that i keep giving these "firm" dates to then have to cancel repeatedly. Its getting really old.

 

[Jearley35purdue]

One key thing they fail to share is the recovery plan. All manufactures have issues. In my business it's an everyday thing managing slips in the supply chain. In fact right now I'm impacting the Boeing 737 and Gulfstream G650 jet production lines as we speak with a stupid 2k part! If I had told Boeing or Gulfstream sorry we're trying really really hard and apologize I'd be fired shortly there after. What they need to communicate is their path to recovery. Simply just working overtime isn't that path. What risk mitigation methods are in place to never let this happen again and also expedite the orders to meet the promise dates 100% of the time! (Inventory, contract support, 3 shifts, alternative suppliers) Communication is one component but communicating a solid, comprehensive plan, in laymans terms for the general Joe Schmoe to understand is what they need. I read the entire message and still wouldn't have a clue when I was getting my stove! Sorry I don't even have one on order but this would bother me if I did! A lot of us spend some serious coin and save for a long time to make the investment. The least they can do is provide some credible plans! Rant over!

 

[Tenn Dave]

quote="Jearley35purdue, post: 1866135, member: 38639"]One key thing they fail to share is the recovery plan. All manufactures have issues. In my business it's an everyday thing managing slips in the supply chain. In fact right now I'm impacting the Boeing 737 and Gulfstream G650 jet production lines as we speak with a stupid 2k part! If I had told Boeing or Gulfstream sorry we're trying really really hard and apologize I'd be fired shortly there after. What they need to communicate is their path to recovery. Simply just working overtime isn't that path. What risk mitigation methods are in place to never let this happen again and also expedite the orders to meet the promise dates 100% of the time! (Inventory, contract support, 3 shifts, alternative suppliers) Communication is one component but communicating a solid, comprehensive plan, in laymans terms for the general Joe Schmoe to understand is what they need. I read the entire message and still wouldn't have a clue when I was getting my stove! Sorry I don't even have one on order but this would bother me if I did! A lot of us spend some serious coin and save for a long time to make the investment. The least they can do is provide some credible plans! Rant over![/quote]


What a silly response............Woodstock will refund the deposit of anyone who cannot sleep without getting a 'plan' above and beyond what they have already issued. Sounds to me that you are only taking a cheap shot. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[Tenn Dave]

I saw that letter a while back, and completely understand they are behind and working hard. I dont understand why they didnt send it to their customers, at least via email at a minimum.

My real issue is them blatantly lieing to me. Dont tell me my stove is built and ready to ship if its not. Don't promise me a specific ship date if you know you cant meet it.

I really dont mind waiting, not at all, but i have two other parties involved that i keep giving these "firm" dates to then have to cancel repeatedly. Its getting really old.

Cancel your order...........I am sure they did not intentionally lie to you.

 

[TheRambler]

I don't want to cancel my order. My whole point is that if they really don't know then they should say so. Promising specific dates over and over again is a BAD practice. It is one thing to say your stove will probably be ready X week as a general broad time window. And another entirely to tell someone that your stove is built and sitting there ready to ship and would without a doubt, 100% gurantee would ship on the requested date.

This is my first time ever doing business with them, and I am in business myself and get supply chain issues. But never once have i told a customer that i have the part in my possession and will ship it on monday if I didn't even have it yet.

It's business practices like this that turn people off from certain companies. I was just wondering if I was the only one getting these answers from Woodstock, and it was just a fluke, or if it was how they are handling all of their customers right now.

 

[Tenn Dave]

I don't want to cancel my order. My whole point is that if they really don't know then they should say so. Promising specific dates over and over again is a BAD practice. It is one thing to say your stove will probably be ready X week as a general broad time window. And another entirely to tell someone that your stove is built and sitting there ready to ship and would without a doubt, 100% gurantee would ship on the requested date.

This is my first time ever doing business with them, and I am in business myself and get supply chain issues. But never once have i told a customer that i have the part in my possession and will ship it on monday if I didn't even have it yet.

It's business practices like this that turn people off from certain companies. I was just wondering if I was the only one getting these answers from Woodstock, and it was just a fluke, or if it was how they are handling all of their customers right now.

If there is no exaggeration in what you say about a '100% guarantee', and you can substantiate your claims about being 'lied to', then you should contact Tom Morrissey, Woodstock President, and share your concerns. I know the good people who work at Woodstock, and I can tell you right now that they do not intentionally lie to their customers. If they missed some ship dates I can assure you it was not by choice. If you have lost confidence in them, you should move on. It will make you happier in the long run.

 

[valuman]

Managing customer expectations in business is one of the more difficult things to do. We were telling our customers there was an 8- 10 week lead time and that got blown out of the water due to a big jump up in sales last month. At this point I honestly can't say exactly when we're going to get to them. 10- 12 weeks is what I'm telling folks because they don't want to hear, "I don't know" and I believe we can meet that with a ramp up in production, but I can say that I'm a bit concerned about meeting that expectation. I doubt you would have happily excepted an answer of "I don't know" from Woodstock either, so they gave you a date they thought they could meet. Sorry to read of your frustration, but I'd try to be patient and maybe tell the buyer of your stove that you'll give them a call as soon as you hear your PH is on its way.

 

[Jearley35purdue]

quote="Jearley35purdue, post: 1866135, member: 38639"]One key thing they fail to share is the recovery plan. All manufactures have issues. In my business it's an everyday thing managing slips in the supply chain. In fact right now I'm impacting the Boeing 737 and Gulfstream G650 jet production lines as we speak with a stupid 2k part! If I had told Boeing or Gulfstream sorry we're trying really really hard and apologize I'd be fired shortly there after. What they need to communicate is their path to recovery. Simply just working overtime isn't that path. What risk mitigation methods are in place to never let this happen again and also expedite the orders to meet the promise dates 100% of the time! (Inventory, contract support, 3 shifts, alternative suppliers) Communication is one component but communicating a solid, comprehensive plan, in laymans terms for the general Joe Schmoe to understand is what they need. I read the entire message and still wouldn't have a clue when I was getting my stove! Sorry I don't even have one on order but this would bother me if I did! A lot of us spend some serious coin and save for a long time to make the investment. The least they can do is provide some credible plans! Rant over!

What a silly response............Woodstock will refund the deposit of anyone who cannot sleep without getting a 'plan' above and beyond what they have already issued. Sounds to me that you are only taking a cheap shot. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]

quote="Jearley35purdue, post: 1866135, member: 38639"]One key thing they fail to share is the recovery plan. All manufactures have issues. In my business it's an everyday thing managing slips in the supply chain. In fact right now I'm impacting the Boeing 737 and Gulfstream G650 jet production lines as we speak with a stupid 2k part! If I had told Boeing or Gulfstream sorry we're trying really really hard and apologize I'd be fired shortly there after. What they need to communicate is their path to recovery. Simply just working overtime isn't that path. What risk mitigation methods are in place to never let this happen again and also expedite the orders to meet the promise dates 100% of the time! (Inventory, contract support, 3 shifts, alternative suppliers) Communication is one component but communicating a solid, comprehensive plan, in laymans terms for the general Joe Schmoe to understand is what they need. I read the entire message and still wouldn't have a clue when I was getting my stove! Sorry I don't even have one on order but this would bother me if I did! A lot of us spend some serious coin and save for a long time to make the investment. The least they can do is provide some credible plans! Rant over!

What a silly response............Woodstock will refund the deposit of anyone who cannot sleep without getting a 'plan' above and beyond what they have already issued. Sounds to me that you are only taking a cheap shot. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]


No really not taking a cheap shot at all. I know they are some of the best stoves around. My only point is, as a business, an apology and we are working hard isn't always acceptable. Situations like these happen daily in every manufacturing business. It is how you react, plan, communicate and stand behind the plan that separates the best of the best. From a customer service perspective you lose credibility over time when you don't/can't communicate a solid plan that's all. I don't want to see them go down that path, their stuff is top notch, but if they don't take care of their customers and deliver on time in full consistently to the people paying good money for their product someone will surpass them. Maybe not technically, but from a service standpoint. That's all....I hope they get back on track soon and stay up in the lead of the pack!

 

[Jo191145]

Besides the supply issues stated in the letter I think we're witnessing a small company going through large growing pains. Two stoves developed in recent years from a small manufacturer that really caught the consumers eye.
Sure their public relations could be better under the new circumstances they find themselves in but they also do not employ a team of public relations experts normally spending their day playing solitaire.

Give em a chance to grow. Not many companies are doing that these days. Hopefully they'll retain their excellent reputation for quality and service in the future once these issues get ironed out.
Hopefully they don't go the route of Vermont Castings.

 

[TheRambler]

Managing customer expectations in business is one of the more difficult things to do. We were telling our customers there was an 8- 10 week lead time and that got blown out of the water due to a big jump up in sales last month. At this point I honestly can't say exactly when we're going to get to them. 10- 12 weeks is what I'm telling folks because they don't want to hear, "I don't know" and I believe we can meet that with a ramp up in production, but I can say that I'm a bit concerned about meeting that expectation. I doubt you would have happily excepted an answer of "I don't know" from Woodstock either, so they gave you a date they thought they could meet. Sorry to read of your frustration, but I'd try to be patient and maybe tell the buyer of your stove that you'll give them a call as soon as you hear your PH is on its way.

Haha, you are probably right I wouldn't have liked to be told "I don't know" but honestly, that would be a better answer than shooting from the hip with dates. And a projected date is one thing. Even if i was told it would be available sometime between 1/1 and 1/15 i would have been fine with it. It's the exact date thing over and over again that is frustrating. Rant over. I will contact them again on Monday and go from there.

 

[Air_cooled_driver]

Besides the supply issues stated in the letter I think we're witnessing a small company going through large growing pains. Two stoves developed in recent years from a small manufacturer that really caught the consumers eye.
Sure their public relations could be better under the new circumstances they find themselves in but they also do not employ a team of public relations experts normally spending their day playing solitaire.

Give em a chance to grow. Not many companies are doing that these days. Hopefully they'll retain their excellent reputation for quality and service in the future once these issues get ironed out.
Hopefully they don't go the route of Vermont Castings.

This was my impression as well. They just got a bit of a positive tsunami (great product in high demand but small company). I didn't ever feel lied to, but did feel like they weren't giving the customer good assessments of what their issues were and their resulting timelines. Seemed to be new territory for them.

 

[Tenn Dave]

Besides the supply issues stated in the letter I think we're witnessing a small company going through large growing pains. Two stoves developed in recent years from a small manufacturer that really caught the consumers eye.
Sure their public relations could be better under the new circumstances they find themselves in but they also do not employ a team of public relations experts normally spending their day playing solitaire.

Give em a chance to grow. Not many companies are doing that these days. Hopefully they'll retain their excellent reputation for quality and service in the future once these issues get ironed out.
Hopefully they don't go the route of Vermont Castings.

You hit the nail right on the head when you said they are a small company coming out with state of the art quality products, and growing at the same time. Whatever your thoughts about Woodstock are, you should know they value their customer's satisfaction with their stoves above all else. If they are making a mistake, it would be that they are demanding that the quality of their products takes priority over temporarily disappointing some customers by delaying shipments. And that is a mistake I would welcome any day. However, that is easy for me to say...because I already have my Progress Hybrid.

 

[Mainely Saws]

To me , Woodstock got to where they are now by taking care of customers & putting out great products . I own a business & I know that it is virtually impossible to anticipate every bump in the road & even if it could be done, there would still be some dissatisfied people . I would suggest taking a look at the overall quality of the product , the pricing, the reputation & the support after the sale of the company & then make a decision that you can live with . I mean really , look at all of the companies that we do business with ( cable & phone companies , big box stores , banks , etc , etc ) , it's tough enough to just get a live person on the phone to talk to ................

 

[Jo191145]

This was my impression as well. They just got a bit of a positive tsunami (great product in high demand but small company). I didn't ever feel lied to, but did feel like they weren't giving the customer good assessments of what their issues were and their resulting timelines. Seemed to be new territory for them.

It probably is new territory for them

LinkedIn has them down as a privately held company with 11-50 employees. I saw that during Thanksgiving they were not timely at answering the phones because the folks usually responsible for that were in the shop building stoves. They are trying, gotta give them that.

When the ideal won that stove design challenge and they decided to put it into production they needed to retool and retrain staff for a different manufacturing process. Time and money, time and money.

Yes they should not be giving positive dates and failing, especially multiple times. The website hasn't been updated in awhile and is lacking some info I'd be interested in knowing.
I do wish them best at finding more qualified personnel and eventually more work space.
A positive tsunami is an apt description. I'm going to be throwing my name in the pool shortly. I figure next season I'll get one.

My interests have turned to wood stoves for the moment. Prior to that my hobby was Bench Rest shooting. You guys would hate that sport. Getting custom components from the best gunsmiths/bulletmakers is at least a year wait if they'll accept your order to begin with.

 

[Flamestead]

I saw that letter a while back, and completely understand they are behind and working hard. I dont understand why they didnt send it to their customers, at least via email at a minimum.

My real issue is them blatantly lieing to me. Dont tell me my stove is built and ready to ship if its not. Don't promise me a specific ship date if you know you cant meet it.

I really dont mind waiting, not at all, but i have two other parties involved that i keep giving these "firm" dates to then have to cancel repeatedly. Its getting really old.

This doesn't mesh at all with any of my dealings with them, but I'm also not doubting you; I would be inclined to blame poor internal communications rather than intentional deception. My practice when experiencing this level of frustration is to speak with the same person each time and to remind them of the previous conversations and projections made. We deal with one company for our cattle that we have to drive to for a straight answer (highly frustrating, but no alternative). Both my wife and I have found Woodstock's service to be such a breath of fresh air compared to most (darned near all) places we do business with.

I've noticed some smaller companies leaning more on Facebook than their web site. I suspect this is due to the editing tools - small companies are probably contracting for the web service and it is simpler to use Facebook (I rarely use Facebook, and missed Woodstock's post about the delays until someone mentioned it a while ago).

 

[DougA]

What a silly response............Woodstock will refund the deposit of anyone who cannot sleep without getting a 'plan' above and beyond what they have already issued. Sounds to me that you are only taking a cheap shot. Hopefully I'm wrong.

If the phone response was indeed what was posted, I don't see that as silly AT ALL. It IS a lie when you know the truth and promise something else. Call a spade a spade.

Years ago, my wife used to work in a firm exactly the same size and her job was to lie to customers that their order would ship that day and it was not even on the production floor yet and would not be completed for a week. She finally quit because people would show up at the factory demanding to pick up the order and found out the truth.

I run a small company and the very WORST customer phone calls I deal with is when I tell people the truth and they will not accept that. People are conditioned to accept BS. I completely understand the situation but it is still wrong to lie in the hope that everything will be better when the sun rises tomorrow. It rarely is.

It pains me to post a negative about one of the finest companies in the industry but that is exactly what needs to happen to make the changes necessary. Anyone who runs a good company that relies on outsourcing ALWAYS has multiple plans when one supplier is in trouble. This is a fatal error that they have made and it must get corrected.

 

[Jearley35purdue]

If the phone response was indeed what was posted, I don't see that as silly AT ALL. It IS a lie when you know the truth and promise something else. Call a spade a spade.

Years ago, my wife used to work in a firm exactly the same size and her job was to lie to customers that their order would ship that day and it was not even on the production floor yet and would not be completed for a week. She finally quit because people would show up at the factory demanding to pick up the order and found out the truth.

I run a small company and the very WORST customer phone calls I deal with is when I tell people the truth and they will not accept that. People are conditioned to accept BS. I completely understand the situation but it is still wrong to lie in the hope that everything will be better when the sun rises tomorrow. It rarely is.

It pains me to post a negative about one of the finest companies in the industry but that is exactly what needs to happen to make the changes necessary. Anyone who runs a good company that relies on outsourcing ALWAYS has multiple plans when one supplier is in trouble. This is a fatal error that they have made and it must get corrected.

Can't agree with you more. Customer service is more than just lip service stating we're trying and we're sorry for the blips along the way. They will figure it all out. Probably was a mom and pop shop now in over their head. They will have to figure it out quick or will lose their place in the pack.