Would like to share something.

[corey21]

Normal


How long are the burn times? Temps drop as the burn cycle progresses.
I have got 9 hours once most of the time it is 4 hours.

Take a photo. The secondaries aren't always lazy.
I have no fire right now.

What was your old stove? How size was it?

Wondercoal stove it was a coal stove.

 

[BrowningBAR]

4 hours? Is that with a full load?

What is your burn cycle like when you load the stove full?

Remember, this is very different from a coal stove. The big steel stove will want to hit 650-750 on a full load. It will sit at those temps for a couple of hours and then sit at 400-550 for several hours. Then it will hang out in the 250-400 temp range at the end of the cycle.

How many sq ft are you trying to heat with the stove?

 

[corey21]

4 hours? Is that with a full load?

What is your burn cycle like when you load the stove full?

Remember, this is very different from a coal stove. The big steel stove will want to hit 650-750 on a full load. It will sit at those temps for a couple of hours and then sit at 400-550 for several hours. Then it will hang out in the 250-400 temp range at the end of the cycle.

How many sq ft are you trying to heat with the stove?

That is with a load up to the height of the firebrick I rake the coals forward add wood E/W Start cutting air at 350.

I know it is nothing like a coal stove but my goal is more length of time between reloads

I am heating 1800 sq feet well insulated.

I have woke up a lot to a stone cold stove in the morning in fact i just let the fire go out now.

I should also mention the stove is a b@#$% to start from no fire.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I hope you enjoy your new stove.

 

[corey21]

I hope you enjoy your new stove.

Are you saying i am not crazy for wanting a new stove?

 

[BrowningBAR]

You seem very frustrated with the stove. And sometimes frustration can only be eased by starting over.

I'm saying you should be getting longer burn times than you are by about double. You should not have a cold stove in the morning. But, I also think you might be a little too heavy with the air controls and you seem a little too concerned with temps that appear to be within standard operating temps.

Both of those operating issues are seemingly from not trusting the stove. And if your gut is telling you not to trust the stove, I can not tell you otherwise since I am not there.

The weak startup from the stove is also an unknown. There is nothing special or complicated with the steel stove you are running. With a good draft and good fuel, the stove should start up no differently than any other steel stove with it's design.

The overly active flame is a question mark as well. Is this really an issue, or do you have an incorrect understanding of what a non-cat fire should look like. I can't tell. And if there really is something wrong with the stove, I can't tell you to ignore this concern.

 

[corey21]

You seem very frustrated with the stove. And sometimes frustration can only be eased by starting over.

I'm saying you should be getting longer burn times than you are by about double. You should not have a cold stove in the morning. But, I also think you might be a little too heavy with the air controls and you seem a little too concerned with temps that appear to be within standard operating temps.

Both of those operating issues are seemingly from not trusting the stove. And if your gut is telling you not to trust the stove, I can not tell you otherwise since I am not there.

The weak startup from the stove is also an unknown. There is nothing special or complicated with the steel stove you are running. With a good draft and good fuel, the stove should start up no differently than any other steel stove with it's design.

The overly active flame is a question mark as well. Is this really an issue, or do you have an incorrect understanding of what a non-cat fire should look like. I can't tell. And if there really is something wrong with the stove, I can't tell you to ignore this concern.

Yeah it has led to a lot of stress a fresh start would be nice.

I have seen a lot of videos and pics of a non cat running like it should mine does not compare and it may take an act of congress to figure out all the unknowns here i think. It is not that i am afraid of a hot fire in my house i have had the old stove glowing before by mistake.

But i would like to say thank you for helping me here.

I cant get a real high droller stove i will more then likely go with a 30 don't know when yet but your right a fresh start would help.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I should also mention the stove is a b@#$% to start from no fire.

Sounds like a draft issue or blocked flue. Even a weak draft will fix itself after about 5-10 minutes of burning.

 

[corey21]

Sounds like a draft issue or blocked flue. Even a weak draft will fix itself after about 5-10 minutes of burning.

I don't think i have a draft issue i would not be able to close the air down after a reload if i did.

Like i sad above i am ready for a fresh start.

 

[rdust]

Pay no attention to the photos that people post of the magical secondary burn. With my non cat I could get the flames flying around the top of the stove for a bit with no flame on the wood. The next thing you know the fire is smoldering away. When I was burning my Endeavor right I always had flames on the wood with secondaries in the top. People get hung up on the secondaries, if the stack is clean the secondary air is doing it's trick. Sometimes we try to over complicate things.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I don't think i have a draft issue i would not be able to close the air down after a reload if i did.

Like i sad above i am ready for a fresh start.

Which is fine, but, I would definitely do everything possible to be sure these issues didn't carry over to the next stove. The start up issues are puzzling.

 

[corey21]

Which is fine, but, I would definitely do everything possible to be sure these issues didn't carry over to the next stove. The start up issues are puzzling.

I do agree that may need investigated start up is not a huge issue if that was the only issue i could live with that to be honest.

Pay no attention to the photos that people post of the magical secondary burn. With my non cat I could get the flames flying around the top of the stove for a bit with no flame on the wood. The next thing you know the fire is smoldering away. When I was burning my Endeavor right I always had flames on the wood with secondaries in the top. People get hung up on the secondaries, if the stack is clean the secondary air is doing it's trick. Sometimes we try to over complicate things.

I see what your saying about that I agree.

 

[BrowningBAR]

When you have the firebox full and a good temp going, post a few pics of what the stove looks like.

Your stove only has two burn tubes while the 30 has four, with roughly the same size firebox.

 

[corey21]

When you have the firebox full and a good temp going, post a few pics of what the stove looks like.

Your stove only has two burn tubes while the 30 has four, with roughly the same size firebox.

My stove just has a baffle with holes in it.

I may fire it back up one day soon maybe right now i am using electric heat the past week

 

[BrowningBAR]

My stove just has a baffle with holes in it.

I may fire it back up one day soon maybe right now i am using electric heat the past week

Doesn't the interior of your stove look like this?

 

[ddddddden]

I don't think i have a draft issue i would not be able to close the air down after a reload if i did.

Not necessarily. . .draft is temp dependent. If you burn big for 10-15min after reloading, it heats up the flue and really gets the draft going, then you can shut down the air and still have plenty of draft to keep going. A cold start is more of an uphill battle to get everything heated up and flowing. Some people burn a bunch of newspaper to get the flue warmed up, some use a hair dryer, etc. Some stoves "breathe easier" than others, a few have a secondary baffle bypass mechanism that does this, and some people just have enough natural draft that they don't have any problems. This issue comes with the EPA stove territory; so whether you stick with this stove or not, it would be good to make sure that you have a good handle on your chimney/draft situation before choosing a replacement stove.

All that said, sometimes it's just a case of "wrong stove/wrong house." Here's an example that comes to mind:

Many of you may remember the problems that we were having with our Oslo (https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/63944/,https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/54057/) mainly just an overall sluggish performance with the stove always feeling like it needed more air. We received TONS of helpful suggestions and advice on how to cure the problem, and that for that we are so thankful!

We tried just about everything, and in the end we sold the Oslo and replaced it with a Quadrafire Isle Royale which we absolutely love!!

After trying many things to get out Oslo working correctly, several people suggested that given the low usage on our stove, our chimney setup, and the vast majority of people who are very, very happy with their Oslo that perhaps we somehow got a "defective" stove that just wasn't working right. Frankly, I had begun to wonder the same thing but had a hard time getting my head around that as I had run a wire rod through all the air chambers so I knew that there were no blockages.

Well, I just got an email from the person who bought our Oslo, and he reports that the stove is working wonderfully for him! So, it would appear that the stove is not defective, but, as others surmised, the Oslo really needs a strong draft (especially here in the PNW with low barometric pressure and mild evening low temps) to work properly. While we had a 20' straight up shot of chimney/pipe and still had poor performance from our Oslo, the new owner has the stove installed in a ground level "great room" with 5' of single wall into a 90, then 28" of horizontal, another 90, and then straight up the gabled end of the house 31' to allow for all the correct clearances above the roof line, etc.

So, to me this confirms that at least for PNW conditions with lots of rain (and thus low barometric pressure) and average night time lows in the mid 30's to mid 40's, that an Oslo will probably only work well if you have 25+ feet of chimney.


NP

Another thing to think about is that if you've been having problems with maintaining secondary burn, that basically means that you've been burning dirty, so your flue might be very dirty. The flue doesn't have to be clogged to significantly affect draft; a 1/2-inch layer of creosote can do that. If the performance of your stove seems to be steadily getting worse, it may be due to an increasing layer of buildup on the wall the flue. . .might be worth a trip to the roof to have a look. Even if you never burn the Magnolia again, you want to start the new stove off with a clean flue, don't ya?

. . .i am ready for a fresh start.

If this year is like the last few, HD will have the Englander online in about 2 months for $649 shipped. You can't beat that deal with a stick!
BTW, it looks like you wouldn't be the first to give up on the Magnolia.

I had the 2015 Magnolia. I did like the build quality, had raging secondaries that came on early. Primary air when fully closed left a large hole for air to get through. No way without modding the plate to shut down the air fully. I suspect the same of the 2500. Door glass air wash was exceptional. Glass stayed unbelievably clear at all times. I only used it a month and it started to have door seal issues that seemed to me to be from the front of the stove where the door meets to be warped. Tried bigger door seal but then noticed when the stove got hot a gap would open up in the R/H top corner. I gave up on it and sent it down the road.

 

[blades]

Corey, if the outside ambient temps are hanging in the 30+ degree range any and all stoves are a bit of a challenge to get running as draft is sometimes a bit slow. Your wood sounds like nice dense stuff, but if it is not at a internal moisture content of less than 20%(note optimum moisture content is about 12-15 %) you are going to have fits with any of the current model Epa certified stoves. Oak and similar dense woods will take a minimum of 2 years ,likely 3 of cut stacked and split to achieve this standard exposed to mother nature under relatively decent conditions. Take a split cut it down the middle if it feels slightly moist it is not dry enough ( or get a moisture meter to check it with). I can not stress enough how important this is. What will happen with improperly seasoned wood is the internal moisture when being baked out will cause the whole system to run cold (the moisture being released actually cools the fire) it will snuff the secondaries quite quickly, make the unit very difficult to control. Once the moisture boiled out then things will tend to ballistic on you for short time, causing you to choke it down, and end up with a low smoldering fire that shortly just develops into a big coal bed. We have not talked about your type of flue,height of same nor the ambient conditions in your area. This all comes into play as well. I can understand the frustration as well, I have an Hot blast wood /coal furnace from Us steel in my basement ( 1400 model) it is a smoke dragon, eats wood like a 4 year old eats candy, impossible to control, auto draft damper is a joke, max I ever got cycle wise was 4 hours, can't trust it to not burn the house down, in order to use I have to babysit it. I seldom use it anymore as I have better things to do with my time, but in all fairness it is the cheapest model out there ( get what ya pay for) and it did reduce the winter fuel bill enough to pay for itself in one season plus a little. And yes when I have some spare time and a couple extra hands it will removed and sold for whatever I can get for it ( which is about 1/2 retail or slightly less, kinda the going rate around here). I have another stove from the late 90's thta is aEPa style unit also as well as a pellet unit. So I have a little history to work from.

 

[etiger2007]

Very interesting thread Corey, cant wait to see how it turns out.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

If this year is like the last few, HD will have the Englander online in about 2 months for $649 shipped. You can't beat that deal with a stick!
BTW, it looks like you wouldn't be the first to give up on the Magnolia.

This year the englander did not go down in the spring, summer and fall but stayed about $899. I got 2 at the low price year before last ,one in feb and one in Sept.

 

[BrowningBAR]

This year the englander did not go down in the spring, summer and fall but stayed about $899. I got 2 at the low price year before last ,one in feb and one in Sept.

Incorrect. The Englander was sitting at $649 until the first week of July. I know because I was following the price as I bought one this year and couldn't buy one until the second week of July. But, the England was at $649 throughout the spring and part of the summer.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Incorrect. The Englander was sitting at $649 until the first week of July. I know because I was following the price as I bought one this year and couldn't buy one until the second week of July. But, the England was at $649 throughout the spring and part of the summer.

Probably dependent on where you are. At my local store the price didnt go down,but i did buy one before by entering a different home store at a much cheaper price so i guess you can still do that.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Probably dependent on where you are. At my local store the price didnt go down,but i did buy one before by entering a different home store at a much cheaper price so i guess you can still do that.

Correct, there are a select few zip codes that offer the $649. My local HD never offers it at the $649 price.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Correct, there are a select few zip codes that offer the $649. My local HD never offers it at the $649 price.

Yes i bought 2 at that price about 8 months apart with free shipping and 0% interest for 12 months.

 

[corey21]

Doesn't the interior of your stove look like this?

yeah.

Not necessarily. . .draft is temp dependent. If you burn big for 10-15min after reloading, it heats up the flue and really gets the draft going, then you can shut down the air and still have plenty of draft to keep going. A cold start is more of an uphill battle to get everything heated up and flowing. Some people burn a bunch of newspaper to get the flue warmed up, some use a hair dryer, etc. Some stoves "breathe easier" than others, a few have a secondary baffle bypass mechanism that does this, and some people just have enough natural draft that they don't have any problems. This issue comes with the EPA stove territory; so whether you stick with this stove or not, it would be good to make sure that you have a good handle on your chimney/draft situation before choosing a replacement stove.

All that said, sometimes it's just a case of "wrong stove/wrong house." Here's an example that comes to mind:



Another thing to think about is that if you've been having problems with maintaining secondary burn, that basically means that you've been burning dirty, so your flue might be very dirty. The flue doesn't have to be clogged to significantly reduce draft; a 1/2-inch layer of creosote can do that. If the performance of your stove seems to be steadily getting worse, it may be due to an increasing layer of buildup on the wall the flue. . .might be worth a trip to the roof to have a look. Even if you never burn the Magnolia again, you want to start the new stove off with a clean flue, don't ya?


If this year is like the last few, HD will have the Englander online in about 2 months for $649 shipped. You can't beat that deal with a stick!
BTW, it looks like you wouldn't be the first to give up on the Magnolia.

Yeah i plan on cleaning the flue.

I have the a print out of what stove i want going to take it to the local store first.

 

[corey21]

Corey, if the outside ambient temps are hanging in the 30+ degree range any and all stoves are a bit of a challenge to get running as draft is sometimes a bit slow. Your wood sounds like nice dense stuff, but if it is not at a internal moisture content of less than 20%(note optimum moisture content is about 12-15 %) you are going to have fits with any of the current model Epa certified stoves. Oak and similar dense woods will take a minimum of 2 years ,likely 3 of cut stacked and split to achieve this standard exposed to mother nature under relatively decent conditions. Take a split cut it down the middle if it feels slightly moist it is not dry enough ( or get a moisture meter to check it with). I can not stress enough how important this is. What will happen with improperly seasoned wood is the internal moisture when being baked out will cause the whole system to run cold (the moisture being released actually cools the fire) it will snuff the secondaries quite quickly, make the unit very difficult to control. Once the moisture boiled out then things will tend to ballistic on you for short time, causing you to choke it down, and end up with a low smoldering fire that shortly just develops into a big coal bed. We have not talked about your type of flue,height of same nor the ambient conditions in your area. This all comes into play as well. I can understand the frustration as well, I have an Hot blast wood /coal furnace from Us steel in my basement ( 1400 model) it is a smoke dragon, eats wood like a 4 year old eats candy, impossible to control, auto draft damper is a joke, max I ever got cycle wise was 4 hours, can't trust it to not burn the house down, in order to use I have to babysit it. I seldom use it anymore as I have better things to do with my time, but in all fairness it is the cheapest model out there ( get what ya pay for) and it did reduce the winter fuel bill enough to pay for itself in one season plus a little. And yes when I have some spare time and a couple extra hands it will removed and sold for whatever I can get for it ( which is about 1/2 retail or slightly less, kinda the going rate around here). I have another stove from the late 90's thta is aEPa style unit also as well as a pellet unit. So I have a little history to work from.

My red oak i know is par but my other wood is dry that is what i mainly use.