Would you buy a Harman at this point?

carg3

Member
Jan 29, 2007
12
There seems to be a lot of "wait and see" in the wood stove industry these days. I'm hoping one of you in the business can shed some light on a few things. I'm told (by a man selling Hearthstone) that Harman is out of the woodstove game. I've burned a TL200 the last 16 years, but swore I wouldn't change the afterburner again. The local Harman dealer has one last TL300. The afterburner can be accessed from outside the back of the stove- a BIG plus over the 200. Did Harman sell this line off, and can I count on parts down the road, or are they just done? I've looked at other brands, but this is a stove I know inside and out (literally) . Also, is it true that all models that didn't pass 2020 emissions have to be destroyed by May if not sold? I would think that would lead to a better price.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,090
South Puget Sound, WA
Maybe. Pellet stoves and a few fireplaces are all that are listed on the Harman website.
 

SmokeyAcres

New Member
Nov 8, 2019
1
Central Mass
This is from the P.E. Home page
"The USA Environmental Protection Agency (and likely to be adopted throughout Canada) has implemented a maximum 2.0 grams of particulate per hour regulation effective May 15, 2020 - this means that any product sold after May 15, 2020 at the retail level must conform to this standard.
Product purchased before or in use at the time of implementation of this regulation will not be affected."
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,050
central pa
There seems to be a lot of "wait and see" in the wood stove industry these days. I'm hoping one of you in the business can shed some light on a few things. I'm told (by a man selling Hearthstone) that Harman is out of the woodstove game. I've burned a TL200 the last 16 years, but swore I wouldn't change the afterburner again. The local Harman dealer has one last TL300. The afterburner can be accessed from outside the back of the stove- a BIG plus over the 200. Did Harman sell this line off, and can I count on parts down the road, or are they just done? I've looked at other brands, but this is a stove I know inside and out (literally) . Also, is it true that all models that didn't pass 2020 emissions have to be destroyed by May if not sold? I would think that would lead to a better price.
No way you could get me to buy a down draft stove no matter how much you discount it
 
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carg3

Member
Jan 29, 2007
12
No way you could get me to buy a down draft stove no matter how much you discount it
No way you could get me to buy a down draft stove no matter how much you discount it
I always got along with the Harman, but it took a bit of babysitting in the beginning. So for the sake of argument, would you go with a tube burner or a proven cat? I'm sure there are companies rolling out new cat technology which is unproven in the field. I'm not interested in being a Guinea pig. Which makes are using proven cat technology that meets 2020 standards, without making drastic changes?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,050
central pa
I always got along with the Harman, but it took a bit of babysitting in the beginning. So for the sake of argument, would you go with a tube burner or a proven cat? I'm sure there are companies rolling out new cat technology which is unproven in the field. I'm not interested in being a Guinea pig. Which makes are using proven cat technology that meets 2020 standards, without making drastic changes?
I would go with a proven design. But there are plenty of 2020 compliant stoves that have been out and are proven. As far as cat non cat that is a different discussion. I have used both and each have their strong points
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
The local Harman dealer has one last TL300. The afterburner can be accessed from outside the back of the stove- a BIG plus over the 200. Did Harman sell this line off, and can I count on parts down the road, or are they just done? I've looked at other brands, but this is a stove I know inside and out (literally) .
I have my TL300 about 10 yrs now and its still my best stove. Out of 4 different EPA stoves,3 from englander and one from US stove. Havnt had to do anything with the afterburner yet. Everything around the afterburner is in great condition also. None of my other stoves can get near the long burns and heat output of the 300. My biggest problem is trying not to overheat 3000 sf of 100yr old house even on low air. A cat stove would solve that problem.
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,781
Southern IN
Havnt had to do anything with the afterburner yet. Everything around the afterburner is in great condition also. None of my other stoves can get near the long burns and heat output of the 300. My biggest problem is trying not to overheat 3000 sf of 100yr old house even on low air.
Impressive. :cool:
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,781
Southern IN
They are but monsters I just don't like the durability of them. His experience is not typical
Maybe with a conscientious operator, they hold up better? No doubt a downdraft stove isn't for your average casual user, and it's tougher, even for a nerd. ;)
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,050
central pa
Maybe with a conscientious operator, they hold up better? No doubt a downdraft stove isn't for your average casual user, and it's tougher, even for a nerd. ;)
We have lots of customers who do well operating them. But I have never seen a combustion box last more than 5 years. Most are 3 to 5 years. Some of their damper mechanisms are problematic as well.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
They are but monsters I just don't like the durability of them. His experience is not typical
Iv seen some frightening pictures of burned out combustion chambers, even the ceramic around the chamber so i know it happens. They could be over heating the stove ,the manual suggests no long term use on high. Not sure why mine is holding up so well, i burn mostly very dry pine mostly on low air FWIW.
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
Maybe with a conscientious operator, they hold up better? No doubt a downdraft stove isn't for your average casual user, and it's tougher, even for a nerd. ;)
I agree, keeping it in afterburn is tricky. Stove does not like to be run with stalled afterburner or poor draft. Run correctly its the cleanest and longest burning stove i have ,by far. Possibly wet wood can be problematic as well. Dont know, iv never tried it.
 
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carg3

Member
Jan 29, 2007
12
Bholler's right about the damper mech. I had one stick with the damper open....couldn't even kick it closed. That's the only time I've ever used the fire extinguisher. That 200 went for parts, and I got another. (I'm a slow learner. It said so on my report cards.) A heavy dose of graphite in the spring cured that. I also agree with his timeline on the afterburner. I don't mind that...it's the taking the whole stove apart to get to it that's the pain. I'm sure it's caused many to skip a good vacuuming every year. That's why I'm thinking about the 300, but no I don't expect ten years out of something that fragile (or have they changed materials? The shop owner wouldn't let me take the back off the stove, even though I brought my own tools).
 
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billb3

Minister of Fire
Dec 14, 2007
4,617
SE Mass
Can one of you explain why it's a downdraft? Air comes in from the bottom, up past the damper if open or thru the after burner if closed and out the chimney
Because the smoke is drawn down before it is allowed a path back up in a normal draft pattern.
Screen Shot 2019-11-11 at 1.29.43 PM.png


It's not a new design and goes back centuries used primarily to create more paths to extract heat from the smoke before it goes up the chimney lost forever.
 

paulnlee

Member
Dec 2, 2018
219
Flemington, NJ
I went all last season closing the damper by hand because the front of the damper frame warped to the point the rod jammed. My fault, probably. This is my 3rd TL 300, First one had after burner issues then I was told they "improved" the after burner so I went with another, the warped damper frame. There's a thread somewhere about my cost to repair and someone recommended Jotul that wouldn't heat my barn. There is no other stove that I can put the amount of wood(LARGE) into. I went from a Morso 2BO to this with zero mod to the TL 300 except for telescoping pipe.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,050
central pa
Because the smoke is drawn down before it is allowed a path back up in a normal draft pattern.
View attachment 251099

It's not a new design and goes back centuries used primarily to create more paths to extract heat from the smoke before it goes up the chimney lost forever.
Correct it is not new. But there has yet to be a modern stove with this design that hasn't had some serious durability issues for most users.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,050
central pa
I went all last season closing the damper by hand because the front of the damper frame warped to the point the rod jammed. My fault, probably. This is my 3rd TL 300, First one had after burner issues then I was told they "improved" the after burner so I went with another, the warped damper frame. There's a thread somewhere about my cost to repair and someone recommended Jotul that wouldn't heat my barn. There is no other stove that I can put the amount of wood(LARGE) into. I went from a Morso 2BO to this with zero mod to the TL 300 except for telescoping pipe.
Your third stove in how long?
 

carg3

Member
Jan 29, 2007
12
This is the feedback I was hoping for when I started this thread. Thanks. While it continues I'm looking at the Woodstock line. Went to look at Blaze Kings yesterday, but the dealer didn't have a single one on the floor. Is everyone selling stoves a bit timid this season?
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,339
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
I’m glad to not need a stove right now! You’re really gambling.

I would not consider a Harman wood stove. They just don’t offer great performance in the ways that matter. Where Harman does get it right is with their pellet stoves. Head of the class there.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,050
central pa
I’m glad to not need a stove right now! You’re really gambling.

I would not consider a Harman wood stove. They just don’t offer great performance in the ways that matter. Where Harman does get it right is with their pellet stoves. Head of the class there.
Absolutely. I don't know how they can make pellet stove so we'll where service is so well thought out. But through bolt the panels that need to be removed to service the combustion chamber on their inserts. That means to properly clean them you need to pull the insert out pull off the outer convective jacket to get access to a regular service area. Absolutely absurd.
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
The EPA promulgated the 2015 NSPS. Stoves (wood and pellet) less than 4.5 gr/h must be sold by May 15th 2020. After this date they may not even be donated. These stoves are referred to as Step 1 heaters.

Just because a stove is 2.0 or less does NOT make it a Step 2 heater! It has to have been tested to the revised test methods published in the rule, March 16, 2015.

So yes, there are many Step 1 heaters being discounted. Some, more difficult to sell, are discounted substantially at times.

What consumers should be aware of is the Method 28 was changed to Method 28R. The R is revised. So some models, which were very clean burning in 2014 or earlier, were simply retested and passed. So if you can find one of those gems...discounted, it's a true find.

Questions?

BKVP

Off to Denver!