Is this King Parlor running too hot?

[ohlongarm]

It is not for me highbeam I know that it is for someone reading this who doesn't know better and after reading that thinks that no matter what they do there is no way that their bk could over fire. So yes use your brakes but you should also make sure that your brakes work before driving.


No if you did that to those stove you do not know how to run them I am sorry. It would take serious abuse to do that to either of those stoves. And the damage you describe would not have taken place with one incident. The stove had to have shown signs of damage but you just kept running it regardless. Which doesn't tell me you are one to make sure the stove is in good repair before using it.

Sir ,if you research some ancient postings you will find quadrafire had problems with stoves cracking,which by the way prompted me to check mine and wallah,mine was cracked.There are even pictures posted here from other posters. Now as for the Buck,mine was never run any hotter nor colder than my other stoves and failed,the factory rep of Buck had never seen it so he says,but nevertheless the stove less than two months old failed miserably,Buck in fairness to them provided a 100% refund to me as

It is not for me highbeam I know that it is for someone reading this who doesn't know better and after reading that thinks that no matter what they do there is no way that their bk could over fire. So yes use your brakes but you should also make sure that your brakes work before driving.


No if you did that to those stove you do not know how to run them I am sorry. It would take serious abuse to do that to either of those stoves. And the damage you describe would not have taken place with one incident. The stove had to have shown signs of damage but you just kept running it regardless. Which doesn't tell me you are one to make sure the stove is in good repair before using it.

Let's clarify something ,on this site some time ago several posted about their defective Quadrafire stoves ,sides splitting. this was when i owned a 5700 step top,lo and behold mine split on both sides. Now i've never done more or less when burning my BK's and no damage whatsoever. Pictures of Quadrafire stoves with their split sides were posted here. My defect was not operator induced period.Quadrafire gave me a full refund.I then unfortunately bought a Buck 94 their biggest stove they made ,in three months of brutal winter weather it warped on both sides ,the Buck rep verified it was not an operator error,and in fairness to them, I received a full refund. I took that money and headed to a BK dealer somewhat hesitant of a catalytic stove. Well I've never looked back and i run the BK's no differently then i did the two other brands, dry wood ,set it according to mfgers specs and move on.Operator error was not a part of my misfortune with the two other brands.While not proclaiming to be an expert common sense is a virtue i've inherited being in law enforcement nineteen years.So in this case sir you have erred in your assumption,stuff happens that sometimes cannot be explained or understood .Just saying. IE Trump is president,glad he is,but the odds were against him ten fold.

 

[bholler]

Sir ,if you research some ancient postings you will find quadrafire had problems with stoves cracking,which by the way prompted me to check mine and wallah,mine was cracked.There are even pictures posted here from other posters. Now as for the Buck,mine was never run any hotter nor colder than my other stoves and failed,the factory rep of Buck had never seen it so he says,but nevertheless the stove less than two months old failed miserably,Buck in fairness to them provided a 100% refund to me as

You are forgetting that I work in the field every day I have seen plenty of failed stoves and yes I know that quad had some issues. But in all of the failed Quads I have seen they were run really hard. If they were not run that hard they did not fail. Yes it was a problem with the design that caused them to fail in that fashion but it was also the fact that they were run hard. . You can have all the common sense and experience in LE you want but I am telling you the only way to warp the sides of a stove like that is excessive heat. I cant tell you why you had that excessive heat or if it was your fault. But I can tell you it was to hot.

If it was just the Quad I would say yeah you ran it hard but it was a know issue. But the fact is you burnt up two stoves and that tells me something. And it tells me that it is a good thing that you now have a stove that protects itself. I just hope you pay enough attention to notice if something is not right which by this thread it seems you are which is good. But get rid of the magnet thermometer on the double wall it is not providing any useful info.

I have to add I am not sure what Trump has to do with this issue lets try to stay on topic and keep the childish political crap off of this site.

 

[ohlongarm]

You are forgetting that I work in the field every day I have seen plenty of failed stoves and yes I know that quad had some issues. But in all of the failed Quads I have seen they were run really hard. If they were not run that hard they did not fail. Yes it was a problem with the design that caused them to fail in that fashion but it was also the fact that they were run hard. . You can have all the common sense and experience in LE you want but I am telling you the only way to warp the sides of a stove like that is excessive heat. I cant tell you why you had that excessive heat or if it was your fault. But I can tell you it was to hot.

If it was just the Quad I would say yeah you ran it hard but it was a know issue. But the fact is you burnt up two stoves and that tells me something. And it tells me that it is a good thing that you now have a stove that protects itself. I just hope you pay enough attention to notice if something is not right which by this thread it seems you are which is good. But get rid of the magnet thermometer on the double wall it is not providing any useful info.

I have to add I am not sure what Trump has to do with this issue lets try to stay on topic and keep the childish political crap off of this site.

Point taken to a point,I would think mfgers would have their products built to expect the unexpected. and if a stove was run to the point of warping and splitting, I would think it would have to be red hot and pinging like the old 55 gallon barrel stoves would seen in hunting camps etc.I don't recall ever running either failed stove in those conditions,anyways remember anything that can happen will eventually. Just saying,for now i'd better stay with the BK's at least i'm protected from over firing,I think.For the record ,nothing childish about mentioning the presidents name,and yes i understand this isn't a political site.Analogy think about it.

 

[Highbeam]

Overfiring a modern stove is a funny thing. Other than a couple of exceptions, most operation manuals simply state that if parts are glowing that you are too hot. Then, most times something breaks you are accused of overfiring the stove. Seems there is a large area between normal temperatures and glowing temperatures where weaker designs fail.

I run my nc30 in this range. Not glowing but certainly hotter than average.

Just remember the manual, it's not overfired until parts glow red regardless of what some well meaning people or warranty departments may think.

 

[bholler]

Just remember the manual, it's not overfired until parts glow red regardless of what some well meaning people or warranty departments may think.

Yes I agree and with his quad knowing the issues with that stove he may not have over fired it. But you and I both know that to swell the sides of a buck out an inch especially in a short time there had to be parts glowing. Like I said there is no way for us to know if it was his fault or not at this point but it was without a doubt overheated.

 

[ohlongarm]

Overfiring a modern stove is a funny thing. Other than a couple of exceptions, most operation manuals simply state that if parts are glowing that you are too hot. Then, most times something breaks you are accused of overfiring the stove. Seems there is a large area between normal temperatures and glowing temperatures where weaker designs fail.

I run my nc30 in this range. Not glowing but certainly hotter than average.

Just remember the manual, it's not overfired until parts glow red regardless of what some well meaning people or warranty departments may think.

For the record if any stove should have failed the NC should have my first stove back in the day,and i'd run that thing wide open for some time,rememeber opening the door in mid January.The thing took abuse from me ,will admit but my first stove what did you expect. a monstrous heater but a wood glutton like i've never seen before. You could smell the metal but never got red hot anywhere,an occasional ping or crack but ran well i moved it on and got a Morso,which i moved on but my Sgt. runs it 24/7 in winter and it runs like a champ still.The Morso was a little small for my needs.

 

[lsucet]

This is what i think.
I think the MANUFACTURES ARE AT FAULT. Not everybody has the same location and setup like its been mentioned here millions of times. Not everybody can have the 15' stack recommended for most manufactures and meet codes and have performance at the same time. We all know at what temp secondary burn takes place with tube stoves. At that point the control of the stove depend on different variables more than the operator. What about those with 30' chimney? Different locations, altitude etc?

secondary burn is something, that the operator has a minimal control over it. an overheating situation can be knocking your door in anytime. Sometimes not even a flue damper controls it. Not everybody want to buy a product and have it modified to be able to use it. Not only because warranty, there are many reason involved but safe is the first one in the list. Now I have a question. How many with those add situations, can go away from the house for days and be sure that other members of the house will be safe using it? The same way many wives don't want an ugly stove in the living room or a chimney sticking out the roof because of look, many others don't want, have to learn how to master wood burning. More if they also work plus have too to deal with kids schedules and other things when we are not around. Our kids is another example. they can care less how to operate the dam thing.

Many of us pay premium price for this stoves and manufactures don't care about how to introduce a friendly system/feature for everybody be able to use it and a safe way. But we know how to say that everything that happen is the operator issue that failed to know how to control the stove. For god sake, we are in 2017. they suppose to offer a more safer product, user friendly. PERIOD.

 

[bholler]

Many of us pay premium price for this stoves and manufactures don't care about how to introduce a friendly system/feature for everybody be able to use it and a safe way. But we know how to say that everything that happen is the operator issue that failed to know how to control the stove. For god sake, we are in 2017. they suppose to offer a more safer product, user friendly. PERIOD.

Ok lets keep in mind that the vast majority of wood stoves out there run just fine with no over firing and no damage for a long time. Yes on overly high stacks some measures need to be taken to control draft. But really it is not common to see damage from over firing.

I think more than the manufacturers in most cases I have seen it is the dealers or the installers fault for not teaching the owner how to properly rung their stoves. And how to recognize an over fire. But there are also plenty of times it is the owners fault. We have a couple customers who simply wont run their stoves correctly One I have been there multiple times burnt fires with his wood with my wood and with compressed bricks. Every time I can easily control the stove through the burn. Then the next day he calls and says it is out of control again. I cant be there to run it for him every time He has already destroyed one stove and another wont be long. The other guy just doesn't care he says he like a big fire and will just replace his stove every few years.

 

[lsucet]

Every time I can easily control the stove through the burn. Then the next day he calls and says it is out of control again. I cant be there to run it for him every time He has already destroyed one stove and another wont be long. The other guy just doesn't care he says he like a big fire and will just replace his stove every few years.

Without make this a back and forth because it is not my intention. The statement from you that i quoted, for me it is a proof that if, the solution is address at the manufacture side, that this conditions can happen, we will see less of these situations and most of us will feel safer. I believe that is their responsibility to prevent it with a better controlled/user friendly product that everybody can use, in a safest way. being rookies or experiences people should not make a different. When I am not here, my family like to stay warm regardless and without make this a BK vs other brands, cause that is why i didnt mentioned it in my early post. that was the stove that gave me the confidence to be away when on training or other circumstances to be more sure that they can handle it regardless that some people says that is more difficult to operate . But like you said before it can be overfire also if something is not working correctly. But at least is about a defective part like it can happen with anything else. but not because they went just a little longer in time from shutdown primary air or something like that. I really believe we or government should give more pressure to manufactures to beside of efficiencies and emissions they do something for consumers safety also. WE ARE ALL LEFT ON OUR OWN AFTER THE PURCHASE. and everything that happens is our fault..

 

[bholler]

WE ARE ALL LEFT ON OUR OWN AFTER THE PURCHASE.

And I am saying that if a customer feels like they are left totally on their own that it the dealer/installers fault. Yes it would be great if all stoves were like BKs and could not be over fired if working properly. But that would drive the price up considerably. And in a non cat it is much more complicated. I may give the bk guys a hard time here but it is not at all because I have anything against the stoves. It is the attitude of some of the owners that act like bk is the only option. And I appreciate that you are not acting that way. But I would like to reiterate that the vast majority of wood stove owners out there have no problems controlling their stoves with out the help of an automatic air control. And really wood stoves when installed correctly are very safe. It is very very rare that there is a safety issue caused by a properly installed and maintained wood stove. Your two failed stoves are a good example of that. You had two pretty dramatic failures and your house is still fine. The stoves may have failed but because they were installed in a safe manor nothing more happened.

BTW I am enjoying this discussion and I am glad it has been very civil I am sorry if I came off as disrespectful at the start.

 

[lsucet]

Oh no, not disrespectful at all. I know you have different experience that most of us because of the kind the job you do to put food on the table and that have all my respect.
My failure with previous stoves was not actually a failure. Was more that i do not like the temp spike and in my setup when cold outside, OH BOY.lol. I want something with more control and i found it. but i will tell you, i found beautiful the secondaries on the madison. real nice slow/blue flame dancing all over into the box, but temp rising here like crazy and burn time crappy.lol I found way better performance on those details with what i have now but i see the beauty of other technologies regardless.
That is what i think they should do something that consumers can controls it better and have better experience.

 

[bholler]

My failure with previous stoves was not actually a failure.

I am sorry I was directing that towards ohjongarm not you my mistake.

 

[ohlongarm]

I am sorry I was directing that towards ohjongarm not you my mistake.

What? anyway my nc 30 with a total chimney height of just a hair over 12 feet would roar like a freight train with the air wide open was a sight. However i can accomplish the same with the parlor king which can put out more heat of a type that's more user friendly and subtle and not to mention can run 5 times longer. With a dry load in the king after 3 hours i can watch little aurora borealis things exploding and dancing all over the massive firebox,while the cat goes from orange to red red hot for hours.The flame that's in there will turn blue as a gas flame with locust or osage.Just saying good discussion here.

 

[bholler]

What? anyway my nc 30 with a total chimney height of just a hair over 12 feet would roar like a freight train with the air wide open was a sight. However i can accomplish the same with the parlor king which can put out more heat of a type that's more user friendly and subtle and not to mention can run 5 times longer. With a dry load in the king after 3 hours i can watch little aurora borealis things exploding and dancing all over the massive firebox,while the cat goes from orange to red red hot for hours.The flame that's in there will turn blue as a gas flame with locust or osage.Just saying good discussion here.

I responded to his post thinking it was you. I just didn't read who wrote it my mistake. And yes we all know that BKs put out much more even heat for longer periods of time but again to get those long burn times you are cutting down on the heat output considerably. And for those of us who have allot of heat loss that is not desirable. You need to know what you need and decide what works best in your situation. I know you can turn up a bk and get allot of heat out of it but then you are paying for a stove that can burn low and slow when you dont need that.

 

[lsucet]

And for those of us who have allot of heat loss that is not desirable. You need to know what you need and decide what works best in your situation. I know you can turn up a bk and get allot of heat out of it but then you are paying for a stove that can burn low and slow when you dont need that.

There is a lot to it. it is not so simple. Some let the heat pump take care the house temp when during the day outside temp rises and can be too much to run a fire, others has NG/propane furnace as backup, others pellet stoves like me, others make a small fire just to keep things going and not let the house temp drop too much. others let the house drop a little. Good,understandable. It is every individual ways. whatever suit you and work for you. But i think we all can benefit of the low/slow. Not always is COLD COLD and HOT HOT, there is a lot in between.

Let me just give you an example of my situation today and for the last a few days here.
Last night outside temp when i load the stove around 11PM was 33 df, between 4 and 6:30 AM was 29 df.Right now is 59 df outside with the high of 62 df about 2 hrs ago. What do you think i did to the stove regardless what is going on outside since last night that i dialed it down to where i run it about 11:30? Let me answer that, NOTHING. but the house still holding 74 deg and 69 the other part. 18 1/2 hrs later and for what i see early, i can go till midnight with what is left in the box. I just will not be here. I am going back to town for the week.

If it gets real cold and i have to burn hot like everybody else and cut burn time, it is ok. no argument about that. Saturday I have snow shower all day long with high of 39 df outside temp for maybe an hour or so. since friday night was between 30-32 df with snow showers. same performance from the stove. Yeah i know nothing pretty to look at, just a black box. I have backups with the pellet stoves, to maybe run them when i need, but what is the point.
I am not spending on electricity, moving parts, igniter, blowers and noisy environment. The low/slow is unbeatable.

 

[jetsam]

yes we all know that BKs put out much more even heat for longer periods of time but again to get those long burn times you are cutting down on the heat output considerably. And for those of us who have allot of heat loss that is not desirable. You need to know what you need and decide what works best in your situation. I know you can turn up a bk and get allot of heat out of it but then you are paying for a stove that can burn low and slow when you dont need that.

I find that in my climate zone, sometimes it's really cold and sometimes it's not. It seems to change all the time! It's great to have a stove that can handle both.

 

[bholler]

I find that in my climate zone, sometimes it's really cold and sometimes it's not. It seems to change all the time! It's great to have a stove that can handle both.

Mine can handle both just fine as well. Yes it takes more than just turning a dial but it is not that complicated.

The low/slow is unbeatable.

For you yes it works well for you but I am perfectly happy with how mine works to. As are many others with non cats. I can keep my house a comfortable constant temp until it drops into the teens then I need the furnace to help out. Yes I know I could use some more btus but it works fine for me most of the time. And I got it for free. If I come across a free bk I will try it out but until then I am fine with my recency.

 

[tpenny67]

For you yes it works well for you but I am perfectly happy with how mine works to. As are many others with non cats. I can keep my house a comfortable constant temp until it drops into the teens then I need the furnace to help out. Yes I know I could use some more btus but it works fine for me most of the time. And I got it for free. If I come across a free bk I will try it out but until then I am fine with my recency.

In my experience, first you need a house with decent insulation before you can think about constant temps and long slow burns. If you're burning hot a lot of the time (like me), there doesn't seem to be much advantage to a cat stove, and air tubes can last forever if you don't melt them.

As for over firing, I'm finding that if you don't stuff a tube stove to the roof they're a lot easier to control and the burn time isn't much changed. Heat output is controlled by how much wood you put in, the air control just fine tunes that output.

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6560 using Tapatalk

 

[Highbeam]

Non-cats are fine, in my experience they are totally controllable as long as you want a hot fire. If you're trying to turn one down low like a cat stove then maybe you will find them uncontrollable. It's like that old Ford line, you can have one in any color you want as long as it's black.

It's a different way of burning. You burn shorter fires and you burn them less often if you want less heat from a non-cat. If you want more heat, you can keep a fire going non-stop.

You just have very reduced control of the burn rate when compared to a cat stove. That's all.

 

[tpenny67]

I suppose there's two separate issues here. A cat lets you burn clean at super low rates. A thermostatic air control turns down the air for you and prevents over fires.

For a short while I had an old Vermont castings defiant with a thermostat but no cat. It burned a very steady temperature like a BK but it would smoke heavily while doing so.

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6560 using Tapatalk

 

[bcrtops]

Non-cats are fine, in my experience they are totally controllable as long as you want a hot fire. If you're trying to turn one down low like a cat stove then maybe you will find them uncontrollable. It's like that old Ford line, you can have one in any color you want as long as it's black.

It's a different way of burning. You burn shorter fires and you burn them less often if you want less heat from a non-cat. If you want more heat, you can keep a fire going non-stop.

You just have very reduced control of the burn rate when compared to a cat stove. That's all.

True pretty much if you keep a clean, secondaries involved fire going.
It is very easy, however, to run a small fire all day long that is not very hot -- the secondaries do not get involved & it is not a really clean burn. Out here in the clean country air, where we can't see our nearest neighbor it is not much of a polluting issue -- in the city or suburbs it would be another matter. The wife tends to run the stove this way during shoulder season because she doesn't like to restart the fire in the evening. No harm done, & no creosote buildup in our stack, either -- but not something we'd do in the 'burbs.

 

[ohlongarm]

Mine can handle both just fine as well. Yes it takes more than just turning a dial but it is not that complicated.


For you yes it works well for you but I am perfectly happy with how mine works to. As are many others with non cats. I can keep my house a comfortable constant temp until it drops into the teens then I need the furnace to help out. Yes I know I could use some more btus but it works fine for me most of the time. And I got it for free. If I come across a free bk I will try it out but until then I am fine with my recency.

I hear you ,but if I had to turn the furnace on when, I do I'm paying for someone else to help heat their home.Someone too lazy to get out of bed and go to work,just saying.

 

[ohlongarm]

True pretty much if you keep a clean, secondaries involved fire going.
It is very easy, however, to run a small fire all day long that is not very hot -- the secondaries do not get involved & it is not a really clean burn. Out here in the clean country air, where we can't see our nearest neighbor it is not much of a polluting issue -- in the city or suburbs it would be another matter. The wife tends to run the stove this way during shoulder season because she doesn't like to restart the fire in the evening. No harm done, & no creosote buildup in our stack, either -- but not something we'd do in the 'burbs.

What are neighbors?

 

[tpenny67]

True pretty much if you keep a clean, secondaries involved fire going.
It is very easy, however, to run a small fire all day long that is not very hot -- the secondaries do not get involved & it is not a really clean burn. Out here in the clean country air, where we can't see our nearest neighbor it is not much of a polluting issue -- in the city or suburbs it would be another matter. The wife tends to run the stove this way during shoulder season because she doesn't like to restart the fire in the evening. No harm done, & no creosote buildup in our stack, either -- but not something we'd do in the 'burbs.

If you don't see smoke out the chimney and you're not getting creosote, why is that not a clean burn? Lack of a secondary flame doesn't automatically mean "dirty fire". The secondary tubes are still supplying additional air to the fire. Sometimes that creates a separate flame, sometimes that just allows the primary flame to continue burning longer. You only get significant secondary action when the primary fire isn't burning cleanly.

 

[Ashful]