Yes that is true but being self employed there are plenty of times especially when you are starting out you dont get paid anywhere near what you are worth
got to love Mass government??????
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There were plenty of times starting out in my old cabinetry company where my guys were bringing home way more than me.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Starting out it was koolaid and ritz crackers for a few years. but i also took 3 to 4 months off to lounge in the south pacific every other winter so im "cryin with a ham under my arm" as they say. Been self employed since 1988. Sometime my boss in an ass 'opps thats me!
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Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Yea somtimes i can say id make more working at McDonalds for the hours i put in, but this way my only boss is the wife and i can live with that.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I have indeed been underpaid, but I was never "stuck" there. I chose to remain, for circumstantial reasons, eg. trading geographical convenience for better wages.
You apply your feelings to them, based on their alignment (or lack thereof) with your personal values. Corporations are autonomous machines, with a single goal, making money. If they are in a market with competitive job opportunities for top talent (Tesla or Google), then they must offer more attractive compensation, whether that be in salary or other benefits. If they rely on such positive PR to drive their revenue, then they pay that price, for the sake of increasing profit. You take that to be a "personality trait," but if they could be more successful by paying less and find that revenue or profit is unrelated to how well they treat their employees, don't believe they'd not go that route.
I will grant you the rare sole-proprietorship, with an uncommonly generous owner, who feels strong loyalty to his employees. But of course, bholler was talking about large (read, generally public) corporations, of substantial size to have politicians (read lobbyists) in their back pocket, in his post that started this tangent. That's not generally the sole proprietorship of a generous benefactor.
Self-employment is the only legal way to make less than minimum wage.
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sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Well, what exactly is someone worth that graduates HS, hasn't had a job, and has zero skills?
How about a 45 yr old that has bounced from job to job his entire life and still has zero skills?
I'd argue that this is an amazing country where 2 guys out of HS with zero skills can share a decent apartment, each have a car, have health care, make $12.50 an hr, and have plenty of food.
Seriously, where else can you do that?
Few of us would want that life, but with almost no skills you can survive and live in relative comfort.
God bless America
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You do realize 12.50 is a fairly high paying job in many areas right? And many people are trying to support a family with that. The people sharing an apartment are getting minimum.
And i beleive if someone comes to work every day and does their job they should be paid a living wage. Which means they should not be working full time and still need welfare to make it
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
That fact that many people with no marketable skills are trying to support a family on minimum wage is not the fault or the responsibility of their employer.(Or of the taxpayers for that matter). It begs the question why did they start a family knowing they cant support one with the skills they have(or lack of skills). This is further encouraged by the fact that the govt jumps in to make up the difference,leaves no incentive to change. People are not paid according to their financial obligations. The 1 constant here is "Anything subsidized you get more of" .
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Agreed ,but they most likely are making enough to support themselves ,and what they are earning IS a living wage for 1 person. The reason they may need welfare is they are trying to support more people then their skill set allows.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Absolutely, and i have many times made less than minimum wage. At times the folks at McDonalds are making far more than i. Whats your wage when you work for weeks,months or years on a project the never really gets finished. Zero and if you add in expenses its way below Zero. To top it off self employed are NOT eligible for Unemployment Compensation. Fortunately being self employed one develops a knack for living on surprisingly little income at times. When i do make decent amount i feel "rich" .Self-employment is the only legal way to make less than minimum wage.
I agree the problem is in areas like ours the vast majority of available lower level jobs dont pay enough to support a family.
That's a very low wage locally. House cleaners, gardeners, entry level carpenters make more here. For point of reference, I haven't made $12.50 an hour since around 1975. I wasn't a specialist and didn't have a college degree back then. Actually went back to school and got my college degree in 1979.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
And wages are adjusted for area.
If you can pass a drug test, and show up, you can get a job for $10-13 immediately in this area. Certainly not an expensive area.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
No the problem is people who start at a low wage, aren't motivated to develop a better skill set to make a higher wage because of govt handouts. If they felt the 'pinch' they would do it and stop taking drugs and show up on time.
I have lived the life of a manufacturing operations manager for 10+ years and been in factories for 20+ years. I have seen it all up and down the east coast. It is the same issues everywhere.
I can't count the number of times employees have told me they don't want to work overtime (x1.5pay) because they will then not be eligible for their handouts.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
And as longs the Govt is willing to subsidize low skilled incomes, thats just one more incentive NOT to increase ones skills or education or even work hours. Or try to achieve more. Why bother when someone will step in and turn $10Hr into $30 with no extra effort at all.
Untill a recent job change which now comes with a 1 hour commute my wife with a bachelors degree in accounting was making 12.50 as a maintenance dispatcher for a local grocery store chain. She was one of the highest paid people in the administrative pool. Starting wages for floor workers in the few factory jobs left is around 11 with a top wage for floor workers of 18. And there is tons of competition for those few jobs.
In many areas bettering your skills doesnt make a bit of difference you still wont get paid well. And no people are not willing to loose their benifits for 6 months for a week of overtime. That week of overtime wont pay the bills for that 6 months.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
She may do better doing taxes. Which would be closer to her education . My wife has a 4yr college degree and is not in the work force at all anymore. Never worked a day with her business degree when she was. Iv been the sole family breadwinner for the last 15 yrs. High school diploma only.
She was working there for the benifits. I make plenty to pay the bills on my own but insurance costs allot.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Common practice these days. Benefits mean a lot. Sometimes just for the Health Insurance alone.
This would have been a normal conversation around 1988, but fact that this is the same wage 30 years later is astounding. Wages have not kept up the price of basics like education, health care, food, housing, transportation. The price of these basics has exploded. Poor people are worse off today than they ever have been. If they were paid a decent wage they wouldn't qualify for assistance and most would gladly work for overtime.
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The premise of this article is that America has a new kind of poverty that none of us have experienced before.
https://eand.co/why-america-is-the-worlds-first-poor-rich-country-17f5a80e444a
I will observe one local phenomenon. Seattle voted to increase the minimum wage to $15. There were all sorts of dire predictions about this change. Businesses would move out, restaurants would close, low level jobs would disappear, etc.. Fact is that it didn't happen. The region's economy is booming. Restaurants are opening at a dizzying pace and there is a robust job scene. Restaurant meal costs have gone up a dollar or two over the past couple years, but folks seem ok with that as long as the food is good.
https://eand.co/why-america-is-the-worlds-first-poor-rich-country-17f5a80e444a
I will observe one local phenomenon. Seattle voted to increase the minimum wage to $15. There were all sorts of dire predictions about this change. Businesses would move out, restaurants would close, low level jobs would disappear, etc.. Fact is that it didn't happen. The region's economy is booming. Restaurants are opening at a dizzying pace and there is a robust job scene. Restaurant meal costs have gone up a dollar or two over the past couple years, but folks seem ok with that as long as the food is good.
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