Max heat

[Doc C]

It's a 2.4 cu ft box, if I remember correctly.

Is it more shielded than the Chinook?

It’s very shrouded for sure

 

[stoveliker]

All ceilings are 8’

I think I’m dispersing the heat very well and it’s just not able to put out enough heat to keep the whole house warm.

I only have 1 ceiling fan and it’s in the master bedroom.

I have a wall Mount fan that points down and away from the stove room and that fan is just about at the ceiling.

I’m sure if I turned off the fans abd let the heat stay in the stove room it would get incredibly hot in there

Ifn othing is wrong with the setup, that might have to be it.

Im still puzzled by the speed with which you burn down a full load.

Can you post a pic of a full (re)load before you close the door next time?

 

[Doc C]

Ifn othing is wrong with the setup, that might have to be it.

Im still puzzled by the speed with which you burn down a full load.

Can you post a pic of a full (re)load before you close the door next time?

I can for sure. But I hill every inch of that stove usually and I load them north south

 

[stoveliker]

That sounds good - as everything else....

 

[Highbeam]

It’s very shrouded for sure

This might be like trying to heat with a zero clearance fireplace or flush face insert and no blower. Hopefully things inside the stove shell are designed to be run safely, though obviously less efficiently, with no blower.

 

[Doc C]

This might be like trying to heat with a zero clearance fireplace or flush face insert and no blower. Hopefully things inside the stove shell are designed to be run safely, though obviously less efficiently, with no blower.

What problems could be caused by not having a blower

 

[Highbeam]

What problems could be caused by not having a blower

Not saying the boxer is designed this way but if the manual requires the blower then things might get hot enough without the blower at max output setting to melt things.

Hard to imagine a reputable stove company designing an appliance so dependent on electricity. Hopefully output just goes way down without the blower. BKVP will surely know.

Blowing through 2.4 cf of Doug fir in 4 hours and not getting heat in the room means that heat is going somewhere else. Gotta be up the stack and that chimney has limits.

 

[Doc C]

Not saying the boxer is designed this way but if the manual requires the blower then things might get hot enough without the blower at max output setting to melt things.

Hard to imagine a reputable stove company designing an appliance so dependent on electricity. Hopefully output just goes way down without the blower. BKVP will surely know.

Blowing through 2.4 cf of Doug fir in 4 hours and not getting heat in the room means that heat is going somewhere else. Gotta be up the stack and that chimney has limits.

Hmmm. Ok.

I have been thinking that the heat output was pretty low for a blaze king.

Don’t get me wrong you do want to go fondling the stove top when it’s hot but compared the other blaze kings I’ve had it seems maybe 50% output of the other stoves Ive had

 

[begreen]

If you're getting 2 cu ft of pine in there, and I assume a low of 15 million BTUs per cord

Yes, an E/W loader is limited due to concerns of the wood falling against the glass. Note that Doug fir is not pine. It is a higher BTU wood that falls in the 19-20 BTUS per cord range.

Firewood Weight and BTU Chart (160+ Trees) - Theyardable

Please note that the table describes the average volume of one net cord's weight, which in this case is 85 ft3 (a stacked cord of wood)

theyardable.com

 

[moresnow]

Not to beat a dead horse but... Here is some casual reading for any potential BK purchaser. Page 20 of the B24 operator's manual.

FAN OPERATION Fans are an optional item for most Blaze King appliances. If fans are installed on your appliance, they should be turned off until the stove reaches normal operating temperatures. Approximately 30 minutes after a fire has been established within the appliance, the fan speed should match the thermostat control setting. (i.e. if your themrostat is set to a medium heat output then your fan should also be set at medium, low—low, high—high etc.). We recommend the use of fans on all of our wood appliances. The fan system recirculates room air over the hot surfaces of your appliance and helps spread this super heated air around your home.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, an E/W loader is limited due to concerns of the wood falling against the glass. Note that Doug fir is not pine. It is a higher BTU wood that falls in the 19-20 BTUS per cord range.

Firewood Weight and BTU Chart (160+ Trees) - Theyardable

Please note that the table describes the average volume of one net cord's weight, which in this case is 85 ft3 (a stacked cord of wood)

theyardable.com

Yes,.my calculations were meant to give a lower limit to the BTUs put into the room. And that lower limit adds up to 41,000 BTUs per hr.

The fan is good, but it would cool down the thermostat even more, leading to even shorter burn times.

 

[Doc C]

I think I figured it out this morning.

It is colder this morning then yesterday

My overnight fire was dead this morning and my stove was cool

I loaded the stove, got the fire going, engaged the cat and turned the thermostat down until the flames barely going

I have been running the stove wide open and barely getting the temp to about 3/4

While turning the stove down the temp will go a ways past the highest mark

I know this shows the cat temp and not the stove temp

But by doing this the stove is so hot I can’t stand next to it and the house temp came up pretty quick this morning. House is still not up to 70 yet but I just started the fire 1 hour ago and it’s already warming then at any point yesterday

I’m still going to try the fan and keep working with the stove to get it dialed in faster

 

[Todd]

There got to be something wrong with the stove if it can blow through 2.4 cu ft of wood in 4 hours especially if it has a BK thermostat. It would be very interesting to see the internal flue temps or even an external pipe temp.

 

[moresnow]

Progress!

 

[Ashful]

Coming to this thread late, which may be an advantage or disadvantage, but let me comment on some of what has been said:

1. Blowing thru 2.4 cubic feet of wood in 4 hours is completely normal for a BK on high. I consume wood at this rate every cold Saturday for most of the year, and @Poindexter likely does it for weeks on end. In my slightly larger stove, that's more like 5 hours per load, but completely normal. I can't speak to the efficiency of the stove on high vs. low, I have no accurate way to measure that, but the Ashford 30 throws absolutely searing heat on high. You can argue it's less efficient, it frankly doesn't matter with as much heat as it can throw into the house.

2. Your chimney sounds about ideal for optimizing the efficiency of a BK. You want to target 0.05" WC, and you're likely right on the money with 17 feet at your altitude.

3. Your wood sounds ideal, except some of the terms you used left me with questions. Such as this:

If I turn the dial below half way the fire goes out and I’m left with unburnt logs in the morning.

Is the cat probe still reading active, or is a cold/dead/stalled stove? Not unusual for anyone to stall a BK, just mark the dial, and never go back to this point (or below).

4. Based on all that's been said, tested, refuted, it seems there are really only two likely scenarios:

a. Lack of blowers is translating to poor net efficiency. Stoveliker's "heat up the flue" scenario. In my case, with stove on high, I keep my blowers on a medium setting, so I have no experience burning BK's on high without blowers. While this is the cheaper/easier scenario to test and/or correct, I personally think this is a long shot. I just don't see how lack of blowers is going to nudge net efficiency by enough to be the solution, but we can debate that.

b. The stove is just too small for the application. We all know a Boxer 2.4 can heat most well-insulated 1500 sq.ft. homes, but maybe not one at 4100 ft. that's already seeing 11°F in early November.

Here's what I'd do, with what is known:

1. Buy a flue probe. Let's get a look at those flue temps.
2. Inspect bypass door gasket, make sure it's there, complete, and smooth.
3. Ask @BKVP or dealer if blower kit is same for Boxer 24 and other potential BK's (eg. King, Princess, 30). If so, maybe invest in blowers, knowing at worst you can re-use them on the next stove.
4. If all else fails, get pricing on a bigger stove. BK's are great, I'd stick with them if it were me, but maybe the Boxer is just too little stove for your demand.

In addition to all of this, if you have any idea of your BTU consumption from prior years, it might be useful to compare to others with Boxers, Princesses, Kings...

 

[stoveliker]

Hm. I guess each install is different. Glad you are getting more heat.

However, it does not make sense to me that if you decrease (not the air but) the thermostat, you're getting more heat out. With an air control (i.e. you control the size of the air inlet) in a tube stove, I can see that - as Corey explained earlier.
With the thermostat, the heat output should simply be proportional to the thermostat setting.

The efficiency of BK stoves is not dependent on the burn rate, so the fraction of heat going up the flue is independent of the setting:

Too much choice

Wonder what made me think that :) You were likely reading up on Jotul at about the same time. Jotul is headquartered in Norway, although I believe they even make some of their stoves here.

www.hearth.com

I have not been able to go through a full (30 box) of pine (worse than doug fir) at (under) 20 F outside in a 40 mph NorEaster in under 10-8 hrs, for my 1700 sqft+825 sqft basement home, with the basement then in the high 80s. (Though the latter may result in the Tstat closing a bit, decreasing the burn rate, and thus getting longer burn times? It'd mean my home is quite better insulated, which would be very surprising to me, given my 40 year old R13 walls.

Apparently others can blow thru a load in 4 hrs.
I thought poindexter ran 4 loads a day - which is 50% longer per load than (3 to) 4 hrs.

Bottomline: I don't understand; it does not make sense to me. But if it works (better), it's good.

I do second ashful's suggestion to get a bigger stove - whether BK or not. If in November this was an issue, then even if you tune it better, you are likely to run into needing other BTU supply in mid-winter.

 

[Todd]

According to BK the Boxer delivers 30k BTU per hour on high for 8hr. I can see where a 30’ chimney or extreme weather conditions could cut that burn time down but not a 17’ chimney and normal Winter temps. I could never get my Princess to burn that fast even in extreme weather.

 

[begreen]

There got to be something wrong with the stove if it can blow through 2.4 cu ft of wood in 4 hours especially if it has a BK thermostat. It would be very interesting to see the internal flue temps or even an external pipe temp.

Due to the E/W loading, the actual loads are probably closer to 2 cu ft. It's another reason why I prefer a N/S loading stove.

I'm glad there is progress being made. As to why the lower air is working better, doug fir has a high oil content and can burn quickly. Perhaps the high burn rate was actually exceeding the cat's capacity and blowing a lot of heat and unburnt flue gases up the flue. This would be similar to Pointdexter's experience burning too dry wood in his stove.

 

[stoveliker]

Due to the E/W loading, the actual loads are probably closer to 2 cu ft. It's another reason why I prefer a N/S loading stove.

I'm glad there is progress being made. As to why the lower air is working better, doug fir has a high oil content and can burn quickly. Perhaps the high burn rate was actually exceeding the cat's capacity and blowing a lot of heat and unburnt flue gases up the flue. This would be similar to Pointdexter's experience burning too dry wood in his stove.

But that argument seems inconsistent with what I understood to be the case: that at high burn rates the majority of heat is *not* produced in the cat; it's produced in the primary burn. I.e. there is not much cat food produced because stuff is burned in the firebox, because that combustion is more complete.

 

[moresnow]

Due to the E/W loading, the actual loads are probably closer to 2 cu ft. It's another reason why I prefer a N/S loading stove.

I'm glad there is progress being made. As to why the lower air is working better, doug fir has a high oil content and can burn quickly. Perhaps the high burn rate was actually exceeding the cat's capacity and blowing a lot of heat and unburnt flue gases up the flue. This would be similar to Pointdexter's experience burning too dry wood in his stove.

I can for sure. But I hill every inch of that stove usually and I load them north south

Just to clarify the loading procedure.

 

[BKVP]

The dual blowers make a difference. We tell folks the Chinook, Ashford, BX24 and 3 insert owners benefit from the blowers. Generally people report they make a tremendous difference.

 

[Todd]

A stove that delivers 30k BTU’s per hour for 8 hours shouldn’t need a blower to get the stove room to 70 in a well insulated smallish home.

 

[Doc C]

The dual blowers make a difference. We tell folks the Chinook, Ashford, BX24 and 3 insert owners benefit from the blowers. Generally people report they make a tremendous difference.

Thank you. My local dealer said it would be a few months to get a blower. Is there any chance I could find one sooner?

 

[BKVP]

Thank you. My local dealer said it would be a few months to get a blower. Is there any chance I could find one sooner?

Try eBay. A few dealers will sell misc parts. But if they don't have it in stock, square one.

 

[BKVP]

A stove that delivers 30k BTU’s per hour for 8 hours shouldn’t need a blower to get the stove room to 70 in a well insulated smallish home.

To push the hot air trapped between 2 metal surfaces, the blowers help.