Max heat

[Highbeam]

A stove that delivers 30k BTU’s per hour for 8 hours shouldn’t need a blower to get the stove room to 70 in a well insulated smallish home.

The question is whether it is delivering 30k btus into the room or up the stack but I agree that if those 30k were released into that well insulated 1500 SF it should be quite warm.

But that argument seems inconsistent with what I understood to be the case: that at high burn rates the majority of heat is *not* produced in the cat; it's produced in the primary burn. I.e. there is not much cat food produced because stuff is burned in the firebox, because that combustion is more complete.

Burning oily evergreens at high burn rates can overwhelm primary and catalytic combustion processes and result in visible smoke. When this is happening I would expect the cat to be quite hot unless there is a cooling effect from the unburned fuel. Imagine a very rich running gasoline engine which is something car makers actually do to cool the combustion chamber and reduce NOX emissions.

I just looked at the BK page and it lists this as just a 2.3 CF firebox. That small size is not the problem.

 

[stoveliker]

But the OP said no smoke was visible.

And "where does it go" -> why I recommended the flue probe. Without blowers to help shed the heat, it'll have to have gone into the flue.

I think part of what happened here is that the Tstat is (necessarily!) not sensitive to the heat going up the flue (because it may not have shed it to the room). As a result, it kept the air open, blowing thru a load, and blowing most up the flue - which was not visible because no flue probe was there.

Still, for a positive conclusion: 4 hrs for 2 cu ft of wood is an amazing feat in my view. Speed record

 

[stoveliker]

To the OP: it would be quite appreciated (by me, and I presume others) if you post back here once you have a flue probe (to see what it's doing without the blower), and once you have a blower.

 

[Ashful]

Still, for a positive conclusion: 4 hrs for 2 cu ft of wood is an amazing feat in my view. Speed record

I really don't understand why you think this is so extraordinary. I'm telling you I've ripped down full loads of oak in a 30.1 box in 5'ish hours, more times than I would care to count or remember, and the OP is only burning fir. Load your 30.2 up right now, light it, and then leave it burn on high for the entire duration of the burn. I'll be surprised if you're not staring at a nearly empty box and an inactive cat after 5 hours.

I will admit I've never sat there and timed it, so we could argue whether it's 4.5 hours, 5.5 hours, or (at a stretch) even 6 hours for a Tetris-level stacking of red oak in my 30 box. But I do see the evidence of the morning load gone when I come in for lunch on any cold Saturday.
The point remains that a smaller load (2 cu.ft.) of a lesser wood (fir) in 4 hours is no extraordinary BTU record, not even close.

 

[stoveliker]

I am surprised because my experience is different than yours. I did do that, and I need about 10 hrs for oak before the cat dies.

Moreover, even BK says that that Boxer will run 8 hrs on high.
And I presume "high" is fully open, as it's the maximum output they list. - after all it would not make sense to say "at the lowest output the BK shines as you can go xyz hrs for a BTU rate of abc per hour, and "high output" is - well, something at 75% of the maximum achievable, so this number does not tell you anything"...?

 

[Doc C]

I

To push the hot air trapped between 2 metal surfaces, the blowers help.

I talked to 2 dealers in my area and they both have no clue what blower I need

Is there a part number or anything that would help?

 

[Todd]

I really don't understand why you think this is so extraordinary. I'm telling you I've ripped down full loads of oak in a 30.1 box in 5'ish hours, more times than I would care to count or remember, and the OP is only burning fir. Load your 30.2 up right now, light it, and then leave it burn on high for the entire duration of the burn. I'll be surprised if you're not staring at a nearly empty box and an inactive cat after 5 hours.

I will admit I've never sat there and timed it, so we could argue whether it's 4.5 hours, 5.5 hours, or (at a stretch) even 6 hours for a Tetris-level stacking of red oak in my 30 box. But I do see the evidence of the morning load gone when I come in for lunch on any cold Saturday.
The point remains that a smaller load (2 cu.ft.) of a lesser wood (fir) in 4 hours is no extraordinary BTU record, not even close.

Is that on your 30’ stack?

 

[Ashful]

Is that on your 30’ stack?

Yes, but with key damper installed and tuned to perfectly optimum 0.05" WC on high burn, constantly displayed on Magnehelic mounted to wall behind stove.

I am surprised because my experience is different than yours. I did do that, and I need about 10 hrs for oak before the cat dies.

Moreover, even BK says that that Boxer will run 8 hrs on high.
And I presume "high" is fully open, as it's the maximum output they list. - after all it would not make sense to say "at the lowest output the BK shines as you can go xyz hrs for a BTU rate of abc per hour, and "high output" is - well, something at 75% of the maximum achievable, so this number does not tell you anything"...?

They also list the range of "average heating time" on that little Boxer at 1 hour longer than the Ashford 30.2, which has a useable capacity at least 40% greater. I don't understand the justification behind some of the numbers BK publishes, we've all found numerous examples where they just don't make sense, compared to what we're all doing with these stoves.

I have to turn the dial down from 6 o-clock (wide open) to 3:30, just to hit 12-hour reloads. In this mode, the stove alternates between a few lazy flames and glowing embers. At wide open, it looks like a raging non-cat, mouth of hell scenario. If you can't rip down a load in less than 10 hours, then our setups must be very different, or maybe the 30.1 was better (way better) than the 30.2, in this particular regard. Both of my Ashfords are "transitional" revisions, built as BK was retooling from 30.0 to 30.1, and each has some bits (randomly, and not identical) from each revision.

I wish @Poindexter would chime in, as I know he runs on high for several weeks per year, and I do believe he is seeing way less than 10 hours per load in this mode.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, I learned that to me the numbers made sense because they (for the 30.2 box) pretty much match what I see.
Evidently that's not necessarily the case. As bkvp says: each install is different - I thought that was an excuse, but it obviously also holds truth.

 

[John Galt]

Real world and Lazy man's results...
Burning dry Fir. With an active cat, load new Princess at 10AM, full as I can get without any effort, usually six splits. Run it on high the entire burn, draft is .05 perfect. At 4:30PM, load for the night with another six splits. Cat is still active and hot, most of the coals are gone except that one log on the right side that refuses to burn with the rest (you know the one). I turn the thermostat to 3:30/4 after proper burn in, and show up at 10AM again.

6.5 hours with hardly any coals left. 4 hours is very possible with a smaller box and not knowing the draft, and then we're back to discussing what constitutes a full burn.

 

[BKVP]

Is that on your 30’ stack?

Call BK office ask for part number...I'm flying.509-522-2730

 

[Doc C]

The part number is S.Z2144 for a fan

The dealers in my area are telling me probably March/April to get one

Can’t find any online anywhere

Does anyone have a source for this part number?

 

[BKVP]

The part number is S.Z2144 for a fan

The dealers in my area are telling me probably March/April to get one

Can’t find any online anywhere

Does anyone have a source for this part number?

Have your dealer call my offices. I have verified this is in stock. Do not delay, thanks.

BKVP

 

[Doc C]

Have your dealer call my offices. I have verified this is in stock. Do not delay, thanks.

BKVP

Will do. Thank you!

 

[Ashful]

6.5 hours with hardly any coals left. 4 hours is very possible with a smaller box and not knowing the draft, and then we're back to discussing what constitutes a full burn.

Glad to hear at least one other with similar results to me, so I don't sound like crazy man out. I know each install is different, but damn... I had no idea they could be that different.

Since I always have the oil-fired boiler for backup, I guess it wouldn't be a show-stopper if my install were like @stovelikers, absolutely unable to burn down a load in less than 10 hours on any setting. But if I were actually relying on it as a sole heat source, I think I'd be tearing out that stove and looking for something else!

It would be interesting to see if my other Ashford behaves the same, I've probably never pushed it for a burn faster than ~20 hours, as I just don't need that much heat on that side of the house. I'd have to run with all doors and windows open to rip a full load on WOT in that stove, and I'd probably have half the backyard wildlife in my house enjoying the heat, before the experiment was finished. Lots of squirrels and birds!

 

[stoveliker]

To the OP:

2022-2023 BK everything thread

I wonder too if the smaller sirocco size ratio to the cat might play a part?

www.hearth.com

This is a smaller firebox than you have. So he heats about 1200 sqft (of a larger home). With pine (worse than fir). At colder temps than you so far. And (if I'm correct), at 12 hr reloads.

Hence my conclusion that something is off.

I hope the fan kit is that something - and that you can get it quickly.

 

[Doc C]

Well the good news is I got a fan kit today

The bad news, I spent a few days trying to find one and ended up having to order it…well I went to order it from the store closest to me…the ones that said it was going to be a few months to get until BKVP found one at his office

That store had it in stock the whole time and the gentleman I talked to originally didn’t even bother to look…just assumed that they didn’t have one

I’m going to install the fan tomorrow morning after my overnight fire burns out and see if it helps

 

[stoveliker]

Great news!

 

[moresnow]

Great! Put the bad experience behind ya and have at the install. Let us know what you think after running them a few days. There is some fan operation guidance in your manual worth reading. Just a few subtle things to keep in mind.

 

[Ashful]

That store had it in stock the whole time and the gentleman I talked to originally didn’t even bother to look…just assumed that they didn’t have one

What?!? They're unionized?

That guy is absolutely robbing his employer, if he takes a paycheck this week.

 

[moresnow]

They're unionized?

Not exactly. Unfortunately this the "current state of the union" nationwide. In general

 

[Doc C]

What?!? They're unionized?

That guy is absolutely robbing his employer, if he takes a paycheck this week.

Lol. I was lucky we got someone else this time and he took the time to look before he ordered one

We gave him the part number and I think it made things easier

 

[Doc C]

Not exactly. Unfortunately this the "current state of the union" nationwide. In general

For sure! Used to be that everything was in stock so if something wasn’t you would ask several times to make sure they were not missing it

Now….when something is in stock it’s a huge win! And if it’s not in stock you just accept that it is not in stock

 

[Ashful]

For sure! Used to be that everything was in stock so if something wasn’t you would ask several times to make sure they were not missing it

Now….when something is in stock it’s a huge win! And if it’s not in stock you just accept that it is not in stock

Well, on the flip side... the only things I buy in a brick and mortar store anymore are, well... brick and mortar. They're too heavy to ship.

 

[Doc C]

Installed the fan this morning and it’s already making a huge difference

The room where the thermostat is in, I haven't been able to get above 70 even running the stove wide open all day.

Now, with the fan, we ran the stove between 50-75% at different times during the day today and never ran it at 100% except at start up. The thermostat room is sitting at 72 right now.

The only thing we changed was the fan. The sun did come out for about an hour but I don’t get much solar gain so I’m thinking that didn’t help at all.

But over the next week or I’ll be able to test this and see if it helps like I think it is helping