1st wood insert - advice please

[CATCOT]

I’ve been shopping around to buy my first wood insert (contemporary look only) and I welcome all advice and opinions. These are the inserts I've considered

1) FireplaceX HydraFire Large Flush Wood Insert, Plain Rectangular Front
The top-rated local fireplace store (I live 7 miles south of the Pentagon in VA) quoted:
$4870 includes tax + $150 county permit + $1450 installation = Total $6470
• If I want the blower cord concealed, then add $1450 to hardwire it, plus additional $150 permit fee, plus electrician for $300-$500. Seriously
• From reading Forums, I knew to ask if the installation includes insulated liner and block off plate. Answer: “We don’t do that. SS flex only and stuffed insulation instead of a block off plate”

2) Napoleon EPI3C Contemporary - great ratings for Napolean, but it just doesn’t look contemporary enough for me with the rounded bottom that projects out.

3) I like Osburn Matrix and Osburn 2000, but I've read enough Osburn reviews that are not great to make me hesitate.

4) I can get a Morso 5660 Standard (non-blower) in mid-December for around $3500 (insert only)
The blower model won’t be available until Jan/Feb 2021
Since my goal is to reduce winter electric heating costs, and to be prepared for power-outages, the lack of a blower doesn’t bother me.

Please advise ~
• What I should look out for with the Morso 5660 Standard?
• What are the benefits to not having a blower other than it’s less expensive up front, and that’s one less part to have to fix later on?
• Are the Insulated liner and block-off plate the best way to go if affordable? What are the downsides to the SS flex and stuffed insulation?

Wood - I found 25-year old split cherry wood on Craigslist. Owner switched to gas years ago, and hasn't been ready to give up the Cherry he had split so long ago, until now. See photo: stored under his back deck: 3 sections approx. 7 ft long x 3.5 ft tall
It's been sheltered and aired for all these years, but can wood be too old?



Any other advice? Thank you to all who give their time and wisdom on this site; I've been learning from all of you.

 

[bholler]

I’ve been shopping around to buy my first wood insert (contemporary look only) and I welcome all advice and opinions. These are the inserts I've considered

1) FireplaceX HydraFire Large Flush Wood Insert, Plain Rectangular Front
The top-rated local fireplace store (I live 7 miles south of the Pentagon in VA) quoted:
$4870 includes tax + $150 county permit + $1450 installation = Total $6470
• If I want the blower cord concealed, then add $1450 to hardwire it, plus additional $150 permit fee, plus electrician for $300-$500. Seriously
• From reading Forums, I knew to ask if the installation includes insulated liner and block off plate. Answer: “We don’t do that. SS flex only and stuffed insulation instead of a block off plate”

2) Napoleon EPI3C Contemporary - great ratings for Napolean, but it just doesn’t look contemporary enough for me with the rounded bottom that projects out.

3) I like Osburn Matrix and Osburn 2000, but I've read enough Osburn reviews that are not great to make me hesitate.

4) I can get a Morso 5660 Standard (non-blower) in mid-December for around $3500 (insert only)
The blower model won’t be available until Jan/Feb 2021
Since my goal is to reduce winter electric heating costs, and to be prepared for power-outages, the lack of a blower doesn’t bother me.

Please advise ~
• What I should look out for with the Morso 5660 Standard?
• What are the benefits to not having a blower other than it’s less expensive up front, and that’s one less part to have to fix later on?
• Are the Insulated liner and block-off plate the best way to go if affordable? What are the downsides to the SS flex and stuffed insulation?

Wood - I found 25-year old split cherry wood on Craigslist. Owner switched to gas years ago, and hasn't been ready to give up the Cherry he had split so long ago, until now. See photo: stored under his back deck: 3 sections approx. 7 ft long x 3.5 ft tall
It's been sheltered and aired for all these years, but can wood be too old?

View attachment 267111

Any other advice? Thank you to all who give their time and wisdom on this site; I've been learning from all of you.

There is really no benifit to not having a blower. You don't need to use it but it really helps allot to get heat into the room.

Insulated liner and block off plate are the only way to go in my opinion. And in almost every case the insulated liner is required by code. Anyone saying they don't do it either doesn't know or care about code compliance and I would not let them work in my house.

 

[begreen]

Osburn makes good stoves. Be somewhat wary of stove reviews when the issue is the operator or the installation and not the stove. You might also want to check out the Regency Ci2700 and the Pacific Energy Neo2.5 inserts while looking.

The wood may be old, but it should burn well as long as it is still solid and not turning punky.

 

[lml999]

I have an Enviro 1200 insert. Block-off plate makes a huge difference, keeps the heat moving out into the room instead of up the chimney.

We almost never use the blower. While it does move the heat out into the room, and further, better than simple convection, it's loud and annoying. Our stove is at one end of a cathedral ceiling den, and occasionally I'll run the ceiling fan to move some heat down and around...but mostly I just enjoy the ambiance of the intermittent ticking of the stove as it warms up or cools down.

 

[CATCOT]

Osburn makes good stoves. Be somewhat wary of stove reviews when the issue is the operator or the installation and not the stove. You might also want to check out the Regency Ci2700 and the Pacific Energy Neo2.5 inserts while looking.

The wood may be old, but it should burn well as long as it is still solid and not turning punky.

Thanks - I appreciate the thumbs up for Osburn and I'll add it back into the decision pile. The Regency Ci2700 looks good. I'll need clarification on the cherry wood - what's punky wood ? disintegrating? Thank you so much!

 

[CATCOT]

I have an Enviro 1200 insert. Block-off plate makes a huge difference, keeps the heat moving out into the room instead of up the chimney.

We almost never use the blower. While it does move the heat out into the room, and further, better than simple convection, it's loud and annoying. Our stove is at one end of a cathedral ceiling den, and occasionally I'll run the ceiling fan to move some heat down and around...but mostly I just enjoy the ambiance of the intermittent ticking of the stove as it warms up or cools down.

Yep - you perfectly described the room I want to be in!

 

[CATCOT]

I’ve been shopping around to buy my first wood insert (contemporary look only) and I welcome all advice and opinions. These are the inserts I've considered

1) FireplaceX HydraFire Large Flush Wood Insert, Plain Rectangular Front
The top-rated local fireplace store (I live 7 miles south of the Pentagon in VA) quoted:
$4870 includes tax + $150 county permit + $1450 installation = Total $6470
• If I want the blower cord concealed, then add $1450 to hardwire it, plus additional $150 permit fee, plus electrician for $300-$500. Seriously
• From reading Forums, I knew to ask if the installation includes insulated liner and block off plate. Answer: “We don’t do that. SS flex only and stuffed insulation instead of a block off plate”

2) Napoleon EPI3C Contemporary - great ratings for Napolean, but it just doesn’t look contemporary enough for me with the rounded bottom that projects out.

3) I like Osburn Matrix and Osburn 2000, but I've read enough Osburn reviews that are not great to make me hesitate.

4) I can get a Morso 5660 Standard (non-blower) in mid-December for around $3500 (insert only)
The blower model won’t be available until Jan/Feb 2021
Since my goal is to reduce winter electric heating costs, and to be prepared for power-outages, the lack of a blower doesn’t bother me.

Please advise ~
• What I should look out for with the Morso 5660 Standard?
• What are the benefits to not having a blower other than it’s less expensive up front, and that’s one less part to have to fix later on?
• Are the Insulated liner and block-off plate the best way to go if affordable? What are the downsides to the SS flex and stuffed insulation?

Wood - I found 25-year old split cherry wood on Craigslist. Owner switched to gas years ago, and hasn't been ready to give up the Cherry he had split so long ago, until now. See photo: stored under his back deck: 3 sections approx. 7 ft long x 3.5 ft tall
It's been sheltered and aired for all these years, but can wood be too old?

View attachment 267111

Any other advice? Thank you to all who give their time and wisdom on this site; I've been learning from all of you.




December availability for a new wood insert is now down to 2 choices.
$300 price difference between the two.
Pretending money is no object, which would you choose?
By you, I mean anyone who will offer their advice and opinion. Thank you!

Regency Cl2700 Pro-Series Contemporary
FPX Large Flush Wood Rectangular NexGen-Fyre

 

[CATCOT]

Osburn makes good stoves. Be somewhat wary of stove reviews when the issue is the operator or the installation and not the stove. You might also want to check out the Regency Ci2700 and the Pacific Energy Neo2.5 inserts while looking.

The wood may be old, but it should burn well as long as it is still solid and not turning punky.

As of today, the December availability for a new wood insert is now down to 2 choices:
with a $300 price difference between the two.
Pretending money is no object, which would you choose?
By you, I mean anyone who will offer their advice and opinion. Thank you!

1) Regency Cl2700 Pro-Series Contemporary
2) FPX Large Flush Wood Rectangular NexGen-Fyre

 

[patdale]

I have the Regency CI2700. Really using this fall for the first time after getting it late spring. It puts out a ton of heat with the blower only on low. It is quiet also. The cat probe monitor did stop working but I had it replaced through warranty with my dealer. The only thing I don't like is that the corner of the door glass turns black even with dry wood (split 3 years). I've seen other's have the same complaint. I load it up around 7 and have plenty of coals and heat output still when I wake up at 5. The catalyst temp was still in the 350s this morning.

 

[woodgeek]

I'm currently planning on installing option (2) the FireplaceX, to replace my old 1980 boat anchor insert. Hoping to have it in by December.

I really like the look of the unit and the large window. I have clearance to combustibles issues vertically to combustible facing. That unit has a smaller clearance in that direction than any similar unit.

Its expensive, but it seems that any large glass flush insert costs basically the same.

 

[CATCOT]

I'm currently planning on installing option (2) the FireplaceX, to replace my old 1980 boat anchor insert. Hoping to have it in by December.

I really like the look of the unit and the large window. I have clearance to combustibles issues vertically to combustible facing. That unit has a smaller clearance in that direction than any similar unit.

Its expensive, but it seems that any large glass flush insert costs basically the same.

Thanks - that says a lot if you've chosen the FireplaceX insert.
The 1st dealer of the FPX said that they don't recommend the GreenStart feature,
as that is basically the only repair call they get for the FPX.

But, I'm sure you'd never want to start a fire by pushing a button anyway

I need help understanding liners, please. I know I need to specify a double (or even triple) insulated liner.
• Should it be a rigid liner for the entire length including the L or T connector?
• One installer says he can do a flex double insulated, because the L or T must be adjustable.

I'm willing to order the entire rigid set up online, if that's the recommended liner.
I just don't know if the best set up has part flex and part rigid?

Thank you to all for helping me!

 

[CATCOT]

I have the Regency CI2700. Really using this fall for the first time after getting it late spring. It puts out a ton of heat with the blower only on low. It is quiet also. The cat probe monitor did stop working but I had it replaced through warranty with my dealer. The only thing I don't like is that the corner of the door glass turns black even with dry wood (split 3 years). I've seen other's have the same complaint. I load it up around 7 and have plenty of coals and heat output still when I wake up at 5. The catalyst temp was still in the 350s this morning.

Good to hear that the blower is quiet! Thanks

 

[begreen]

I need help understanding liners, please. I know I need to specify a double (or even triple) insulated liner.
• Should it be a rigid liner for the entire length including the L or T connector?
• One installer says he can do a flex double insulated, because the L or T must be adjustable.

Ask for a heavy duty, insulated liner. It can be flex liner. This connects to the insert with an appliance adapter that has a band clamp to secure the liner. There is no T connection for an insert. If the connection is at an angle they may use a 15 or 30º elbow.
Avoid 2 ply liners, regardless of the sales pitch.

 

[FPX Dude]

As for noise, even the tinyest squirrel cage noise drives me nuts. My HVAC vent noise is actually louder than the blower. Reason I went with the Elite was because of ability to remotely locate the blower, and also not have any kind of cord sticking out whatsoever.

 

[begreen]

As for noise, even the tinyest squirrel cage noise drives me nuts. My HVAC vent noise is actually louder than the blower. Reason I went with the Elite was because of ability to remotely locate the blower, and also not have any kind of cord sticking out whatsoever.

The Elite is a zc fireplace. This is about an insert.

 

[pendra]

As of today, the December availability for a new wood insert is now down to 2 choices:
with a $300 price difference between the two.
Pretending money is no object, which would you choose?
By you, I mean anyone who will offer their advice and opinion. Thank you!

1) Regency Cl2700 Pro-Series Contemporary
2) FPX Large Flush Wood Rectangular NexGen-Fyre

For what it's worth, I just had the same FPX unit installed a couple of weeks ago. I started looking at the same options as you. I was a little hesitant to buy this year given all the changes for 2020 EPA stuff but ended up going for it anyway. I guess the main difference for FPX/Lopi is that they've gone from "Hybrid-Fyre" to "Nex-Gen Fyre" which as far as I can tell in plain English is just that they removed the catalyst but can still hit 2020 EPA emissions numbers due to some redesign of the secondary combustion setup. Smells like a cost savings measure to me. Whatever $$$ they're saving does not appear to get passed on to the customer. I paid almost exactly what you cited.

It's a very attractive unit and makes a very nice looking fire, on high or low burn. So if you're primarily interested in the aesthetics of the fire I think it's a great option. The viewing area is large. It does pretty well keeping the glass clean, and the design with the secondary combustion results in a nice look to the fire imo. The blower is about 56dB at full speed, 50dB at half speed, and about 45dB at low speed from 6ft away according to a spl meter on my phone. So at full speed it's loud enough that I wouldn't want to be sitting next to it watching TV or something, but at half it's fine and at low it's barely audible. You can turn the fan off entirely if you want it silent, but it does help with heating quite a bit.

As for efficiency, it does seem to be pretty good when burning at medium-to-high burn rate. The secondary combustion seems to work pretty well for hot fires. I can go outside and smell no signs of a fire burning, no visible emissions from the chimney, which definitely was not the case with my old setup. I'm also definitely getting much more heat-per-unit-firewood.

My only complaint, I guess, is that the "overnight burn" experience is not at catalytic-stove levels. I'm not an expert on these things, but it seems to me like the "minimum temperature" that the secondary combustion needs to maintain in order to work is higher for the "NexGen" than a catalytic stove, and it doesn't sustain itself in the same way. When you reduce the burn rate, the fire will cool off, and if it cools off too much the secondary combustion stops, which cools it off further, and the fire then burns down smoldering and sending the unburned gasses up the flue. Then you come back to cold coals rather than hot ones. I'm getting better at judging it and my results are improving, but I would say getting good long-burn performance is actually MORE fussy than a cat stove, not less, and I expect even if managed perfectly it wouldn't do as well.

Given all that, if low-and-slow burn performance is a priority for you, I'd think about sticking to a catalytic stove like the regency. Otherwise, I'm quite happy with the FPX.

 

[Dave Fawcett]

I have the Regency classic i2450 non cat stove insert and I love it! All in Canadian came to 3700$ I burn Alder and Maple in it and got the bonus blower kit from regency for free when I’m burning the maple and being generous with the air my family curses me and has to wear shorts and tshirts. Regency is a really nice product built not far from my house actually here in BC Canada!

 

[ilnois]

For what it's worth, I just had the same FPX unit installed a couple of weeks ago. I started looking at the same options as you. I was a little hesitant to buy this year given all the changes for 2020 EPA stuff but ended up going for it anyway. I guess the main difference for FPX/Lopi is that they've gone from "Hybrid-Fyre" to "Nex-Gen Fyre" which as far as I can tell in plain English is just that they removed the catalyst but can still hit 2020 EPA emissions numbers due to some redesign of the secondary combustion setup. Smells like a cost savings measure to me. Whatever $$$ they're saving does not appear to get passed on to the customer. I paid almost exactly what you cited.

It's a very attractive unit and makes a very nice looking fire, on high or low burn. So if you're primarily interested in the aesthetics of the fire I think it's a great option. The viewing area is large. It does pretty well keeping the glass clean, and the design with the secondary combustion results in a nice look to the fire imo. The blower is about 56dB at full speed, 50dB at half speed, and about 45dB at low speed from 6ft away according to a spl meter on my phone. So at full speed it's loud enough that I wouldn't want to be sitting next to it watching TV or something, but at half it's fine and at low it's barely audible. You can turn the fan off entirely if you want it silent, but it does help with heating quite a bit.

As for efficiency, it does seem to be pretty good when burning at medium-to-high burn rate. The secondary combustion seems to work pretty well for hot fires. I can go outside and smell no signs of a fire burning, no visible emissions from the chimney, which definitely was not the case with my old setup. I'm also definitely getting much more heat-per-unit-firewood.

My only complaint, I guess, is that the "overnight burn" experience is not at catalytic-stove levels. I'm not an expert on these things, but it seems to me like the "minimum temperature" that the secondary combustion needs to maintain in order to work is higher for the "NexGen" than a catalytic stove, and it doesn't sustain itself in the same way. When you reduce the burn rate, the fire will cool off, and if it cools off too much the secondary combustion stops, which cools it off further, and the fire then burns down smoldering and sending the unburned gasses up the flue. Then you come back to cold coals rather than hot ones. I'm getting better at judging it and my results are improving, but I would say getting good long-burn performance is actually MORE fussy than a cat stove, not less, and I expect even if managed perfectly it wouldn't do as well.

Given all that, if low-and-slow burn performance is a priority for you, I'd think about sticking to a catalytic stove like the regency. Otherwise, I'm quite happy with the FPX.

I have the FPX large flush insert as well - installed last spring. I echo your comments on the overnight burn experience. I'm assuming yours has the temperature probe/monitor. At what temp do you shut things down - air control - to keep temp from rising? I didn't get clear direction from the dealer so I'm curious what you've experienced/believe. Thanks in advance!

 

[pendra]

I have the FPX large flush insert as well - installed last spring. I echo your comments on the overnight burn experience. I'm assuming yours has the temperature probe/monitor. At what temp do you shut things down - air control - to keep temp from rising? I didn't get clear direction from the dealer so I'm curious what you've experienced/believe. Thanks in advance!

They didn't give me any kind of temperature probe with the unit. All the installer told me when installing the unit was to load it up with the air control full open and the bypass in bypass, wait 45 minutes, then close the bypass and set the air control to whatever you want. I think that's probably the right procedure for a new fire in a cold stove but you don't have to wait that long if it's already hot when you add more wood. You just want to let most of the moisture boil off before you close the bypass again so it doesn't cool down too much. So normally if I'm loading an already hot stove I just leave the bypass open until the new wood is burning well and the visible moisture boiling off has stopped, which is usually only 5-10 min. Then set the air low if I want.

Given the performance, I doubt I'll try to use it for long burns a whole lot. I basically get a few cords of free wood from my own property every year, and I just want to burn it and get as much heat from it as possible, knowing it won't be enough to cover the whole season. It seems to me the unit runs a bit more efficiently at a 25-50% burn than full low. I wouldn't want to stop the furnace from running entirely anyway as the stove will not heat the whole space evenly and the humidifier on the furnace helps keep the place comfortable.

 

[CATCOT]

For what it's worth, I just had the same FPX unit installed a couple of weeks ago. I started looking at the same options as you. I was a little hesitant to buy this year given all the changes for 2020 EPA stuff but ended up going for it anyway. I guess the main difference for FPX/Lopi is that they've gone from "Hybrid-Fyre" to "Nex-Gen Fyre" which as far as I can tell in plain English is just that they removed the catalyst but can still hit 2020 EPA emissions numbers due to some redesign of the secondary combustion setup. Smells like a cost savings measure to me. Whatever $$$ they're saving does not appear to get passed on to the customer. I paid almost exactly what you cited.

It's a very attractive unit and makes a very nice looking fire, on high or low burn. So if you're primarily interested in the aesthetics of the fire I think it's a great option. The viewing area is large. It does pretty well keeping the glass clean, and the design with the secondary combustion results in a nice look to the fire imo. The blower is about 56dB at full speed, 50dB at half speed, and about 45dB at low speed from 6ft away according to a spl meter on my phone. So at full speed it's loud enough that I wouldn't want to be sitting next to it watching TV or something, but at half it's fine and at low it's barely audible. You can turn the fan off entirely if you want it silent, but it does help with heating quite a bit.

As for efficiency, it does seem to be pretty good when burning at medium-to-high burn rate. The secondary combustion seems to work pretty well for hot fires. I can go outside and smell no signs of a fire burning, no visible emissions from the chimney, which definitely was not the case with my old setup. I'm also definitely getting much more heat-per-unit-firewood.

My only complaint, I guess, is that the "overnight burn" experience is not at catalytic-stove levels. I'm not an expert on these things, but it seems to me like the "minimum temperature" that the secondary combustion needs to maintain in order to work is higher for the "NexGen" than a catalytic stove, and it doesn't sustain itself in the same way. When you reduce the burn rate, the fire will cool off, and if it cools off too much the secondary combustion stops, which cools it off further, and the fire then burns down smoldering and sending the unburned gasses up the flue. Then you come back to cold coals rather than hot ones. I'm getting better at judging it and my results are improving, but I would say getting good long-burn performance is actually MORE fussy than a cat stove, not less, and I expect even if managed perfectly it wouldn't do as well.

Given all that, if low-and-slow burn performance is a priority for you, I'd think about sticking to a catalytic stove like the regency. Otherwise, I'm quite happy with the FPX.

Pendra - it would have been several seasons before I figured out what you just explained. Appreciate it!

 

[woodgeek]

Glad to hear here that FPX large owners are happy. Now I just have to decide on the designer face plate.

I'm still waiting on an install date.

In other news, ex-Mrs. Woodgeek recently complained to me that the old ZC fireplace in her condo has been condemned, and she was quoted >$10k to have it ripped out and replaced with a new unit.

 

[Rickb]

lmao guess its good she is ex-

 

[johnblacksox]

I'm a newcomer with a new woodburning insert. I wasn't sure I wanted the blower on my stove, but it makes a huge difference. If I crank the blower up, it heats the entire house very quickly, so I would highly recommend it.

Yes, it is louder than I would prefer. But I wouldn't get another stove without it.

 

[clydesdale]

My FPX Large Hybrid Fyre with catalyst NEEDS the blower. I use it to heat, not just ambience. Without the fan, the heat is no where near as good. The blower is a must. When did this stove go to non-cat and why? Is it because they are a little rough on catalysts?

 

[frecklesphd]

@pendra and or @ilnois any updates on performance? I too am considering a Regency Ci2700 vs. the Lopi/FX Large Flush Wood insert - I found an old Hybrid-Fyre cat vs. the new Next-Gen non-cat. @CATCOT, what did you end up getting?