2013 VC Burning Thread

[Reckless]

Hello folks,

It has been a while since I posted here but I have been following this thread (the rebuild part) since I am getting ready to totally rebuild my 2550 and put it to use for the next heating season.

When you talk about dirty glass do you mean black soot or hazy grayish film? I get the haze but never the black soot. On ocassion as BBar mentiond a split will shift and touch the glass, a black spot will develop but it is always gone once the stove is ready for a reload. Keep in mind the 0028 has double glass and i think that is the main reason for the clean glass. When I had the 1450NC the glass would sometimes get the black soot but it was surly due to questionable wood and me trying to close down the air too soon.

Btw jharkin thanks for posting the rebuild details! I will follow it as I work on the 2550 starting in Jan.

I no longer get black soot either just grey haze since I adjusted my airwash.

So I lit the stove this evening got it up to 450 and put it in CAT mode. I can see a few flames in there but for the most part it black smoked the glass all up. The stove is burning very well though. My wood is supper dry (four or five years dry) and oak so I am not sure why I am getting the black soot. As far as burn times I cannot complain about them. I put three small logs in there and it will burn all night long. Again I do run the stove on the low side. I can say that after closing the EPA holes and the secondary air inlet I have amazing control over the stove, amazing control.

Thanks again,
Glenn

You need a probe. Black soot means you are burning way too low and the wood is just smoldering. Do you have a therm on the griddle? What does it read?

 

[Diabel]

I no longer get black soot either just grey haze since I adjusted my airwash.


You need a probe. Black soot means you are burning way too low and the wood is just smoldering. Do you have a therm on the griddle? What does it read?

+1 on the smoldering...burning too low point

 

[Reckless]

I can't disagree with that. I am just saying that as long as I am not heating up the cast iron to temps that could warp or damage it I shouldn't be hurting the stove. I am looking at it this way. If I want a nice efficient burn then of course I go CAT mode. If I want a nice fire where my glass looks nice and clean I run in bypass mode. What I need is one of the newer model stoves so that when I run in non-cat mode I am still running somewhat efficiently.

I can run my stove in cat mode and get very good flame visuals. All I have to do is dial in the primary to a point where flames are going up to the griddle and not back towards the cat. Also you mention puffing, when is that happening? Primary all the way open or near closed? If its with primary all the way open you dont have enough draft and should probably unblock one of the openings you closed. If its happening with the primary near closed then youre just closing it too much.

 

[grobinson2]

Hey guys,
I am getting some back puffing when I have my primary closed so obviously I need to open that up a little (just did that a second ago). Also sounds like I am just running the stove a little too low. I was getting the puff backs this evening when the griddle temp was 325-350. I have the griddle at 435 now and I am not getting any puff backs. I have not had a time where the flames are going toward the cat just dancing around the stove or out all together of course before the puff-back. I wish I could adjust my air wash. It would seem from my end that the Encore's do have a better air wash system then the defiant.

Thanks,
Glenn

 

[BrowningBAR]

Browning, So just to clarify your standing you feel they are about the same in air wash quality but that with the Defiant you get splits closer to the glass which will soot it up faster then the Encore. Does anyone know if the newer 2-1 stoves are better then these older CAT stoves in the air wash department. Please keep in mind I am not using my stove as a primary heater (that's was our coal boiler is for) and while I want to option to use the CAT and burn the wood efficiently I am mainly going for looks. On another note Browning our current weather blows! I thought it was winter time!

Glenn

I feel the air wash on the two stoves are about the same in terms of effectiveness. I don't think the newer stoves are much different as it regards the air wash, but I have never run one.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I can run my stove in cat mode and get very good flame visuals. All I have to do is dial in the primary to a point where flames are going up to the griddle and not back towards the cat. Also you mention puffing, when is that happening? Primary all the way open or near closed? If its with primary all the way open you dont have enough draft and should probably unblock one of the openings you closed. If its happening with the primary near closed then youre just closing it too much.

Yeah, when the Defiant and Encore are burning well for me, the rolling, thick secondaries provide a nice look.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Hey guys,
I am getting some back puffing when I have my primary closed so obviously I need to open that up a little (just did that a second ago). Also sounds like I am just running the stove a little too low. I was getting the puff backs this evening when the griddle temp was 325-350. I have the griddle at 435 now and I am not getting any puff backs. I have not had a time where the flames are going toward the cat just dancing around the stove or out all together of course before the puff-back. I wish I could adjust my air wash. It would seem from my end that the Encore's do have a better air wash system then the defiant.

Thanks,
Glenn

I do not have any experience with back puffing with any of the four VC stoves I have owned. Not sure if I run the stoves drastically different than most, or just lucky.

 

[grobinson2]

So at 450 griddle temp I was still getting some smoke smell in the house so I opened the primary just a bit more then I had it before and the stove started to climb fast. I ended up opening the bypass and opening the front doors to bring down the temp. I am thinking my wood may be too dry but I don't know. I just need to keep playing with the stove. Browning you run the stove stock except for tuning your secondary air, correct?

Thanks again,
Glenn

 

[BrowningBAR]

So at 450 griddle temp I was still getting some smoke smell in the house so I opened the primary just a bit more then I had it before and the stove started to climb fast. I ended up opening the bypass and opening the front doors to bring down the temp. I am thinking my wood may be too dry but I don't know. I just need to keep playing with the stove. Browning you run the stove stock except for tuning your secondary air, correct?

Thanks again,
Glenn

Stock it is. The issue I have is that it does not like to run low. Doesn't matter when I close the air down, at some point it will catch and climb to 650.

 

[grobinson2]

Is that the case for the Encore as well?

 

[BrowningBAR]

Is that the case for the Encore as well?

It can happen, just not nearly as often with the Encore.

 

[Excavator]

Cleaned out stove after warm day yesterday. Now back to burning

 

[jharkin]

I got very black glass on mine from overnightburns the first couple years. Now that I've rebuild and have much drier wood imostly get a haze from overnight bursns and stay pretty clean when I'm burning hot.

Blocking every air intake to get very long slow burns will surely black up the glass. May crud up the chimney as well...

 

[grobinson2]

Good morning Guys,
I will unblock the two EPA holes and give that a try this evening and see if it makes any difference. I get to spend the day with the in laws... Uggg...

Merry Christmas,
Glenn

 

[Reckless]

Stock it is. The issue I have is that it does not like to run low. Doesn't matter when I close the air down, at some point it will catch and climb to 650.

650 is where I try to keep my stove for day burns since its undersized. Normally for GT of 650 im around 1250-1500 but GT isnt really a great indicator of CT I have had 350GT and 1700CT with no visible flames (before I redid door gaskets). Stay warm fellas!!

 

[Charles1981]

I let the stove top get to 450-500 before closing the bypass. The stove then typically slowly rises to 600 (sometimes just a little over) and cruises there for about 1-2 hour before dropping to 450-500 for another 2-3 hours, then 350-400 for 2-3 hours. Usually by hour 7-8 or so the stove top is ~300 and it is time to reload. Really do need to install a cat probe though so I really know whats going on in the combustion chamber. Right now I just make sure the cat fires off behind the refractory cover and smoke from the stack is minimal. No idea what temperatures are going on back there

Same thing, even with the primary air control closed it still gets up and cruises at 600... almost no flames however. I rarely run the stove with the primary air open as there isn't much need although it is -10 wind chill this morning so I have it open 1/2 way and roaring away.

 

[Diabel]

Just my two cents....When I was running my 2550, my glass was never clean. It always had a dark coating on it, presumably creosote. But in all fairness, I burned the stove really low at 250 consistently. I didn't see flames unless it was to get the CAT up to temp. In fact, I didn't even know that these encores were capable of running with clean glass. The same goes for my Defiant 1945, except I run it at around 350 unless it's really cold then I crank it to 550. By the way, I have gotten incredible burn times from both of my VC's. The Defiant's stack is marginal but it must be ideal since it just went 16 hrs with plenty of coals left over to ignite rather large splits. The encore regularly got 10 hrs running at 200-250. Also, in my experience, these stoves aren't nearly as finicky as my new Oslo when it comes to wood moisture content. I can easily load 20%-25% splits without blinking into the VC's. However, the Oslo really wants 10%-15% or even lower to operate efficiently. Despite the VC reputation on these forums, that am sure isn't without merit, I feel these are great Cat stoves. The 1945 is completely controllable and the 2550 was after I tweaked the primary air intake by surrounding it with tin foil and magnets, essentially making the opening smaller. After I did that the stove was amazing. (I left the EPA holes open on both stoves).

Just my two cents....When I was running my 2550, my glass was never clean. It always had a dark coating on it, presumably creosote. But in all fairness, I burned the stove really low at 250 consistently. I didn't see flames unless it was to get the CAT up to temp. In fact, I didn't even know that these encores were capable of running with clean glass. The same goes for my Defiant 1945, except I run it at around 350 unless it's really cold then I crank it to 550. By the way, I have gotten incredible burn times from both of my VC's. The Defiant's stack is marginal but it must be ideal since it just went 16 hrs with plenty of coals left over to ignite rather large splits. The encore regularly got 10 hrs running at 200-250. Also, in my experience, these stoves aren't nearly as finicky as my new Oslo when it comes to wood moisture content. I can easily load 20%-25% splits without blinking into the VC's. However, the Oslo really wants 10%-15% or even lower to operate efficiently. Despite the VC reputation on these forums, that am sure isn't without merit, I feel these are great Cat stoves. The 1945 is completely controllable and the 2550 was after I tweaked the primary air intake by surrounding it with tin foil and magnets, essentially making the opening smaller. After I did that the stove was amazing. (I left the EPA holes open on both stoves).

Burner,
When you say you run the encore 200-250 is this griddle? What is your flue temp at such point? Is the cat active at such low temp?

 

[grobinson2]

Wow, that just seems so hot to me. I am used to coal stoves where I would run them around the 300 to 450 range for of course days with out touching them. I am well aware that wood stoves are a different beast so we shall see. I do wish I did not have to run the thing so hot though. Thinking my best bet might be to move this one out and put in an Encore that is the 2-1 or get one of the non-cat models and convert it over to the 2-1.

Thanks again,
Glenn

 

[Burner]

Burner,
When you say you run the encore 200-250 is this griddle? What is your flue temp at such point? Is the cat active at such low temp?

That's griddle temp. To be honest I don't measure the flue with my Cat stoves, just with my Oslo (to see how much heat is being lost). For me, the Cats stay ignited at the low temps by using the smouldering smoke as fuel.

 

[Diabel]

That's griddle temp. To be honest I don't measure the flue with my Cat stoves, just with my Oslo (to see how much heat is being lost). For me, the Cats stay ignited at the low temps by using the smouldering smoke as fuel.

And there is no smoke out the chimney? My cat would stall 100% at such low griddle temp.

 

[Burner]

And there is no smoke out the chimney? My cat would stall 100% at such low griddle temp.

My Defiant runs really clean which does surprise me and the 2550 has some smoke. Both Cats run at about 1300 deg for most of the burn.

 

[BrowningBAR]

My Defiant runs really clean which does surprise me and the 2550 has some smoke. Both Cats run at about 1300 deg for most of the burn.

Both stoves like to smoke for me. I can have the Defiant's cat glowing with think rolling secondaries and will still have smoke far too often. Pipe is way too dirty, also.

 

[Burner]

Both stoves like to smoke for me. I can have the Defiant's cat glowing with think rolling secondaries and will still have smoke far too often. Pipe is way too dirty, also.

I attribute some of the clean burn and low temps to the new Condar ceramic cats I installed recently. Here are a few pictures of the 1945 as it is currently burning:

 

[Reckless]

Wow, that just seems so hot to me. I am used to coal stoves where I would run them around the 300 to 450 range for of course days with out touching them. I am well aware that wood stoves are a different beast so we shall see. I do wish I did not have to run the thing so hot though. Thinking my best bet might be to move this one out and put in an Encore that is the 2-1 or get one of the non-cat models and convert it over to the 2-1.

Thanks again,
Glenn

Its all about what your primary is set to. I can have a GT of 350-400 and CT of 1500. I prefer really high GT to keep my 3000sqft home at or near 70.

 

[jharkin]

Its all about what your primary is set to. I can have a GT of 350-400 and CT of 1500. I prefer really high GT to keep my 3000sqft home at or near 70.

Wow you are heating 3000ft2 with an encore?! Wow. I'm at 1400 andit struggles when we see single digits...