2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I am not sure i can add anything to the smog police thing.

I think i am allowed 50% opacity for 20 minutes on cold start. I can cinsistently get to clean plume 22 minutes after touching a match to my kindling. I dont know how soon after ignition my stack olume is detectable, so i might be ok there.

Wood under 12% mc might be a problem. I was burning cordwood at 6-10% mc last year. I dont actually hold an epa level 9 VEE, but my plume was darker than i like. Doing better on that this year.

I am only on 15' 6" of total pipe, but i dont _consistently_ have a clean plume until the cat probe indicator is at the first hash mark up in the active zone and i am burning wood at 12% mc or wetter.

If i can run in bypass up to that hash mark, yup, the olume cleans right up when i close the bypass door. I do have to walk 26 feet from the bypass lever handle to a vantage point on my back deck.

If i engage the cat earlier, i can expect the plume to be clean when the cat probe gets to the same first hash mark as above.

If conditions are marginal for fast cold start, esp temps above +20dF i will often go with a loosely stacked log cabin of smallish splits to get the stove up to temp fast, and then do a hot reload on a decent bed of coals maybe 45 minutes later.

I have fiddled with cold starts a lot. With fuel under 16%mc it is easy, and works consistently, to just build a big fire and heat up the whole stove. With fuel above 16% mc , which i havent fooled with much, it might be faster to go to the extra trouble of building a fire right under the cat. i think it less trouble to dry my fuel to 16% then fool around trying to heat up the cat without heating up the metal box holding the cat.
 
I'll be having an indoor fire later tonight too. For now, outdoor.

Image2056919737.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Blazing
Highbeam, doesn't the small start-up fire before the big load take care of this? I just start cold with a full firebox, but if speed were my goal, I think I'd start with just kindling and a few small splits. Get it hot fast, engage cat, burn it down on high, then reload on a hot coal bed.

That just doubles the amount of smoke and doubles the time of smokiness. It does usually allow an extra split in the main load for a longer burn time! No, I do it in one big shot with a mid level start. Not top down but not bottom up.
 
I am not sure i can add anything to the smog police thing.

I think i am allowed 50% opacity for 20 minutes on cold start. I can cinsistently get to clean plume 22 minutes after touching a match to my kindling. I dont know how soon after ignition my stack olume is detectable, so i might be ok there.

Wood under 12% mc might be a problem. I was burning cordwood at 6-10% mc last year. I dont actually hold an epa level 9 VEE, but my plume was darker than i like. Doing better on that this year.

I am only on 15' 6" of total pipe, but i dont _consistently_ have a clean plume until the cat probe indicator is at the first hash mark up in the active zone and i am burning wood at 12% mc or wetter.

If i can run in bypass up to that hash mark, yup, the olume cleans right up when i close the bypass door. I do have to walk 26 feet from the bypass lever handle to a vantage point on my back deck.

If i engage the cat earlier, i can expect the plume to be clean when the cat probe gets to the same first hash mark as above.

If conditions are marginal for fast cold start, esp temps above +20dF i will often go with a loosely stacked log cabin of smallish splits to get the stove up to temp fast, and then do a hot reload on a decent bed of coals maybe 45 minutes later.

I have fiddled with cold starts a lot. With fuel under 16%mc it is easy, and works consistently, to just build a big fire and heat up the whole stove. With fuel above 16% mc , which i havent fooled with much, it might be faster to go to the extra trouble of building a fire right under the cat. i think it less trouble to dry my fuel to 16% then fool around trying to heat up the cat without heating up the metal box holding the cat.

You actually have to worry about that, and in all places on God's green Earth, A-freeking-LAKSA?!?!???? You just gave me depression, cancer, AND diabeetus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blazing and Ashful
You actually have to worry about that, and in all places on God's green Earth, A-freeking-LAKSA?!?!???? You just gave me depression, cancer, AND diabeetus.
That's what I was thinking. I just called a friend to surprise him. Alaska has become a nanny state? So much for tough.
 
I had been excited to join the BK users club this fall, but alas, my husband's work situation required a pretty quick relocation to south Texas. Thankfully we knew some sort of relocation was likely, so we never installed the new Princess Insert we had purchased earlier in the spring. It's still new in a box at a friend's house in Virginia (we figured that was a better location for potential buyers).

The house we're in now has a prefab fireplace equipped with gas, and we do plan to have it inspected to be sure it's up to snuff, though I doubt it will see much use. We love to burn, but we also love not to send heat up the chimney. We plan to spend at least one winter here to see if we should even think about a stove some day. We'll also build up a woodpile whether we need to or not because we now have some trees that need attention. It was actually nippy in the morning today. It was nice. (Of course, I had to open the windows in the afternoon when the air conditioner wanted to kick on because of solar heat gain.)

I just can't seem to pull the trigger yet on posting an ad for the Princess Insert. I got a good deal on it, and such a deal isn't likely to come my way again. Will you guys do me the favor of verifying that I truly have no hope of properly installing my Princess Insert in the prefab fireplace? I think it's the tiny, nagging voice that says, "Maybe I'm wrong" that has me dreaming of bringing it down here and installing it. Oh well.

Enjoy your BKs this season!


IMG_0525.JPG
 
You actually have to worry about that, and in all places on God's green Earth, A-freeking-LAKSA?!?!???? You just gave me depression, cancer, AND diabeetus.

It's not statewide, just areas that have a history of air quality that threatens breathing and health. Seriously, if you've never been in a temperature inversion with trapped pollution thick enough to be sending people to the emergency room, you might be worried about common sense burning rules. If you have been there, you would know the rules are the lessor of two evils.

For what it's worth, I've burned clean enough to pass the Anchorage air quality rules for the last 20 years, even though there were no clean air wood-burning rules back then. It's called responsible and efficient burning. Like most laws, it's only the most egregious who the rules affect.
 
I had been excited to join the BK users club this fall, but alas, my husband's work situation required a pretty quick relocation to south Texas. Thankfully we knew some sort of relocation was likely, so we never installed the new Princess Insert we had purchased earlier in the spring. It's still new in a box at a friend's house in Virginia (we figured that was a better location for potential buyers).

The house we're in now has a prefab fireplace equipped with gas, and we do plan to have it inspected to be sure it's up to snuff, though I doubt it will see much use. We love to burn, but we also love not to send heat up the chimney. We plan to spend at least one winter here to see if we should even think about a stove some day. We'll also build up a woodpile whether we need to or not because we now have some trees that need attention. It was actually nippy in the morning today. It was nice. (Of course, I had to open the windows in the afternoon when the air conditioner wanted to kick on because of solar heat gain.)

I just can't seem to pull the trigger yet on posting an ad for the Princess Insert. I got a good deal on it, and such a deal isn't likely to come my way again. Will you guys do me the favor of verifying that I truly have no hope of properly installing my Princess Insert in the prefab fireplace? I think it's the tiny, nagging voice that says, "Maybe I'm wrong" that has me dreaming of bringing it down here and installing it. Oh well.

Enjoy your BKs this season!


View attachment 201400
sorry, there’s no way to use your princess in that Fireplace. Bummer..
 
That's what I was thinking. I just called a friend to surprise him. Alaska has become a nanny state? So much for tough.
The regs are borough only. Sort of like a county in the lower 48. The North Star borough (seat is Fairbanks) is about th size of CT with a pop of about 100k.

The borough air quality regs only apply inside the "non attainment zone" defined by the epa. Basically the msa of fairbanks and north pole, ak.

About half the borough population, +/- 50k people live inside the epa defined zone of death, its about 10 miles NS x 20 miles EW.

Outside the epa defined zone but inside the borough you can fuel an OWB with used tires.

I wouldnt want a neighbor running raw sewage to our shared property line, so some common sense guidelines for wood stove emissions are ok with me. OTOH i am paying 25 cents per kwh for electric and i put gas in my truck at $3.34/ gallon today.

Given that i buy 250-300 Mbtu annually, i would be a fool, or rich, to not have a wood stove.

The air quality here is MUCH worse than anything i experienced in los angeles. I am socked in by ridge lines on three sides just like la, but one of my ridge lines blocks what prevailing wind we do have here.
 
The regs are borough only. Sort of like a county in the lower 48. The North Star borough (seat is Fairbanks) is about th size of CT with a pop of about 100k.

The borough air quality regs only apply inside the "non attainment zone" defined by the epa. Basically the msa of fairbanks and north pole, ak.

About half the borough population, +/- 50k people live inside the epa defined zone of death, its about 10 miles NS x 20 miles EW.

Outside the epa defined zone but inside the borough you can fuel an OWB with used tires.

I wouldnt want a neighbor running raw sewage to our shared property line, so some common sense guidelines for wood stove emissions are ok with me. OTOH i am paying 25 cents per kwh for electric and i put gas in my truck at $3.34/ gallon today.

Given that i buy 250-300 Mbtu annually, i would be a fool, or rich, to not have a wood stove.

The air quality here is MUCH worse than anything i experienced in los angeles. I am socked in by ridge lines on three sides just like la, but one of my ridge lines blocks what prevailing wind we do have here.
That's intetesting. It makes sense though. Missoula montana is like that. Too many people clustered into a depression. What surprises me now, is the cluster fairbanks has grown into. I would get out of there! Why live in alaska, if it is like Detroit? Just kidding, I know life isn't always that simple.
 
sorry, there’s no way to use your princess in that Fireplace. Bummer..

Thank you, Webby. That's just what I needed to hear. I really knew it, which is why we left the stove behind with a friend, of course, but getting down here and looking at the wood we'll be processing and that fireplace made me want some additional confirmation. I appreciate it.
 
Only someone ignorant of the Puget Sound Clean Air Agencies SOPs would call them "common sense". What they're doing is politically motivated and systematic destruction of our abilities to burn solid fuel in the region. This has little to do with health and everything to do with their agenda. Yes, this is a blue state. Their enforcement laws including the 1000$ hammer for first offense are not only for the most egregious violators, they are for all violators. Try telling the prius driving, hemp cloth wearing, dreadlock headed, weed smoking, millennial aged, Evergreen State graduate from the inner city that you can't be fined for burning your modern EPA stove perfectly well when she is writing you a 1000$ ticket!

Like @Poindexter we have a small area in one of our huge counties that WAS labeled a federal non-attainment area. Downtown Tacoma. The smoke police apply their rules to all areas of all of their counties with no segregation of that area for things like burn bans.

Those jerks even banned backyard BBQs this summer for an extended period because of the light smoke blowing in from Canada's forest fires. I couldn't even run my pellet grill without paying a 1000$ fine!
 
Last edited:
Just wanted to break up all this depressing regulation talk with a burn photo. Started a fire last night, lodgepole pine. Woke up to the house at 71 degrees. 29 outside. Still plenty of wood for a morning warm up and a hot restart.

bc528c73ff5ecbbd57b2fd097aed1a6b.heic.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Their enforcement laws including the 1000$ hammer for first offense are not only for the most egregious violators, they are for all violators. Try telling the prius driving, hemp cloth wearing, dreadlock headed, weed smoking, millennial aged, Evergreen State graduate from the inner city that you can't be fined for burning your modern EPA stove perfectly well when she is writing you a 1000$ ticket!

Highbeam, all this anger might threaten your health as much as, or even more than, the worst smog day. Lighten up and enjoy life. I know tons of Puget Sound wood burners and none of them worry about getting fined. Maybe because they are all reasonably responsible wood burners! I hope they are fining the most egregious violators but my friends and family have never heard of anyone being fined.

Similar to when seatbelts became mandatory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Highbeam
Does reloading after dark help or do they use artificial lighting means? I would guess most, if not many, "violators" are reported by neighbors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Beldin and Highbeam
I would guess most, if not many, "violators" are reported by neighbors.

I lived next to a guy who should have been reported but that was before we had any air standards. He seemed blissfully unaware that green wood was not a suitable source of heat. Even my grandfather born in 1883 knew about seasoning wood! He used a woodstove to heat his gas station! It was actually a neighborhood store with gas/milk/meat/veggies/bread. Why people nowdays don't know what people over 100 years know is beyond me.

As far as reloading after dark, that would be like saying, "what, they outlawed dumping garbage in the ravine? I guess now I have to do my dump runs under the cover of darkness!" ;lol
 
off track.jpg
 
The point is that with increased scrutiny of our emissions by everyone and with the desire by most of us to reduce our emissions as much as possible, we are trying to get the cat engaged fast and get smoke free fast. It's not an off-track goal. It's good for all parties involved.

So this very on topic issue is unique to cat guys (the best ones are BK guys of course) that are at a disadvantage when it comes to rapid smoke freeism in my experience. Once we achieve smoke freeism I know that our long burn times mean that overall I might release less visible smoke and my invisible emissions are also much cleaner. Unfortunately, the regulations are driven by continuous minutes of visible emissions.

@kf6hap , due to our very reduced amount of daylight per day here at my latitude I do usually start/reload in the dark unless it is extremely cold when I must reload 2x per day. The regulations are not well written when a clean burning, modern, stove burning very dry wood is unable to be burned in such a way to meet the law. I don't want some hippy doing me a favor by not writing me a 1000$ fine.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Beldin
Definitely not just limited to cat guys. Not every non-cat heats up quickly. More to the point, this discussion should have its own thread to continue.
 
Definitely not just limited to cat guys. Not every non-cat heats up quickly. More to the point, this discussion should have its own thread to continue.

Ah but it is. You see, I could care less what an NC30 owner has to do to make his tube burner smoke free faster. The BK has a much different clean burning technology with much different strategies to maximize smoke free performance. So performance of the BK is what we are trying to maximize. Isn't that the very title of this thread?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WoodyIsGoody
end the rants then and stick to the operational aspect please.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dieselhead
With a low temp of 31 this am and temps only in the low 60's today, I will be lighting a load up this evening, I am actually pretty excited especially since I have a new cat and fantastic fire wood. I do have an open pack of redstones from last year (bought for testing the stoves performance with the suspected and later confirmed dead cat)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blazing
The point is that with increased scrutiny of our emissions by everyone and with the desire by most of us to reduce our emissions as much as possible, we are trying to get the cat engaged fast and get smoke free fast. It's not an off-track goal. It's good for all parties involved.

Highbeam, have you tried the "mini-rocket stove" technique I mentioned last week? I'll elaborate below the re-quote:

Sometimes less is more.

When starting a new fire in a cold stove, restricting the fresh air a bit can help build higher temperatures more quickly. This is true both before and after the door is latched. One thing I like about my new BK is that the door latch makes it easy to fine-tune how much air a new fire gets. It's good for the air of a new fire to be restricted a bit. Reducing the intake air reduces dilution of hot flue gasses with cooler fresh air. This makes the gasses in the chimney hotter and lighter which increases draft, fanning the flames and causing the fire to build more quickly. The same principle can apply after latching the door shut. Over-restricting the air will obviously choke the expansion of the fire so the key is to just slightly restrict the air so unlimited quantities of fresh air can't get sucked up the chimney along with the hotter smoke.

Fire temperature matters more than fire size.

The combustor doesn't know how big your fire is, it only knows what the temperature of the exhaust gasses are. For this reason I generally build a wooden "firebox" within the firebox. Everyone knows that wood is a good insulator and that small fireboxes heat more quickly than large fireboxes. So put your smaller wood pieces, the ones that you want to ignite first, in the middle-front, with the big splits on the firebox floor, north-south (and sides and or top depending upon your longer term goals). If you have a half-length big split handy, you can put it in the middle-back, before loading your smaller wood in front of it. Then finish loading the firebox around the starting area leaving a small area in the middle-top open as a "chimney" for your smaller wood pieces. By creating this firebox within the firebox you will achieve very hot temperatures, hot enough to re-burn the smoke inside the mini-firebox, which is what raises temperatures high enough to light off the combustor. It's important that top exits are restricted but that there is a small place to act as a chimney to your firebox within. This is also very gentle on the stove since it is shielded from the intense heat.

By combining the above two concepts, you can create high temperatures very quickly and without consuming a high percentage of your load in the process. This works well in both catalytic and tube stoves but has more benefit in a catalytic equipped stove. You can think of it as building a little rocket stove within your firebox.

This really works really well when done effectively. The only downside is it does require a good mix of assorted sizes and shapes. When I'm splitting wood I entertain my mind by creating the shapes of splits that I know I'll want when the time to burn the wood arrives. Shapes I want (in addition to the common triangular splits);

Very thin and flat large rectangular "plates". These I cleave off the flat side of a large triangular split.

Square and rectangular splits. These make good building blocks and can be made easily instead of triangles.

4"-6" diameter rounds that are only 4"-6" long.

6" diameter half-rounds that are only 4"-6" long.

A few extra large splits for long burns (although this is less important now that I have a BK).

Lots of "splitting duff". Some might call this "kindling" but for me it's more the stuff that creates the super hot flame immediately after light-off. So I prefer Doug-fir, Madrone, dense Pine, White Birch, Elm, good Alder, but anything will work (do avoid White Fir, Hemlock, etc). This stuff should be shorter than 8" and have a bit of "meat" to it. Also stick in a small amount of smaller bits of more traditional kindling like birch bark strips, cedar splinters or small pieces of fatwood to help initially. I split all my wood right where I stack it so I distribute the "splitting duff" throughout my stacks so I always have a nice assortment at my fingertips. They're also useful to wedge one side of an irregular split to help keep the stack straight and stable. All this small material should be very dry because it's 2" thick at most.

Build the wood "rocket stove" in your firebox as airtight as possible using a N-S orientation. This means avoiding irregular shaped wood on the sides and bottom that won't seal tightly against one another. Avoid branching knots, lumps, etc. This is where straight-grained rectangular, half-round or triangular splits come in handy. The "rocket stove" should be tight on all sides except the end facing the glass can be wide open. If the mini-firebox you created has too many leaks in it, you can block off the opening facing the glass with a round cut-off "cookie" or other such chunk. But ideally, You want all air to enter the "rocket stove" from the bottom, front, near the glass. The "chimney" can be the vertical sides of the skinny teepee shaped firebox you created combined with the gap left by a naturally slightly curved split resting against a straight split. You can also cap the "rocket stove" with two thin splits resting sideways with a 1"-2" gap in the middle. Get creative, every build is a little different even if the principles and goals are the same. If you know you will be going for an extended burn, you can protect the rear of the load from initial torching by putting a large half-length split in the back of your "rocket stove" with the splitting duff directly in front of it. I generally do this anyway to concentrate the initial blaze in the front half of the firebox. The floor of the "firebox" or the "rocket stove" can be right on the ash bed. Put a very thin split down to keep the rest of your splitting duff from sinking into the ash. You might have two large half-rounds, split face down, on either side of your "firebox' floor with an small gap between them.


Instead of waiting for the entire load to start torching, you will have a very fast miniature inferno. By slightly restricting intake air, the fire will not spread to the entire firebox initially and flue temperatures will be very high even though flue flow will be low. Other than good wood, the most important factors are having a compact airtight "firebox" stuffed with splitting duff and enough vertical that the draft from the newly ignited duff fans itself. The temperature inside the mini-firebox you created can rise high enough for the initial smoke to be re-burned before leaving your firebox and before engaging the combustor.

This is easy to build as long as you have a good selection of "building blocks" handy. And the firebug in you will enjoy watching it torch off. Don't give it too much air and make sure you have enough chunks of wood in your mini-firebox to create enough initial heat. Pack them tight leaving just enough empty space that a bit of air can get to all faces.

One more tip. The Blaze King thermostat is not designed for such a small hot fire and it won't react to it as quickly as a big hot fire. For this reason, you may want to close the thermostat half-way shortly after you latch the door (assuming your rocket stove is progressing nicely) a couple of minutes before you engage the cat. The goal is to maximize flue temps by minimizing dilution with fresh air without choking your budding fire. Then, after cat engagement, as the stove starts "tinking" and building temperature, the thermostat will react and start to reduce air supply further. I try to stay a step ahead of that and re-open the thermostat a bit as the fire gets hotter and hotter, letting the thermostat do it's thing to prevent it from running away. The result is a hot/fast start to your fire without consuming much of your load. I would not use this method with splits that are not perfect moisture content (12-17%). If your wood has more moisture, it's better to torch the entire load, driving off much moisture, before engaging the cat.
 
I already did my English class reading homework. I have an A+:)
 
I already did my English class reading homework. I have an A+:)

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people will skip over it, that's fine and why I don't hesitate to make a detailed post. I've skipped plenty of shorter posts myself that I had no interest in. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.