2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

Place Date Time Value Unit Value Unit Value Unit Value Unit
1 10/12/2017 6:08:00 64.4 CAT L 64.5 CAT R 64.4 CAT BCK MID 64.4 STACK
2 10/12/2017 6:09:00 64.5 T1 KTemp F 64.5 T2 KTemp F 64.4 T3 KTemp F 64.4 T4 KTemp F
3 10/12/2017 6:10:00 321.8 T1 KTemp F 253.5 T2 KTemp F 141.4 T3 KTemp F 124.5 T4 KTemp F
4 10/12/2017 6:11:00 550.7 T1 KTemp F 535.2 T2 KTemp F 457.3 T3 KTemp F 307.4 T4 KTemp F

How's 3 minutes? New prototype, very, very expensive!

If true, and not just something to get us all talking, that's very cool!

I hope you're calling it "The Highbeam".

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Place Date Time Value Unit Value Unit Value Unit Value Unit
1 10/12/2017 6:08:00 64.4 CAT L 64.5 CAT R 64.4 CAT BCK MID 64.4 STACK
2 10/12/2017 6:09:00 64.5 T1 KTemp F 64.5 T2 KTemp F 64.4 T3 KTemp F 64.4 T4 KTemp F
3 10/12/2017 6:10:00 321.8 T1 KTemp F 253.5 T2 KTemp F 141.4 T3 KTemp F 124.5 T4 KTemp F
4 10/12/2017 6:11:00 550.7 T1 KTemp F 535.2 T2 KTemp F 457.3 T3 KTemp F 307.4 T4 KTemp F

How's 3 minutes? New prototype, very, very expensive!

Nice! Is T1 on the combustor backside and T2 combustor frontside?

 

[kf6hap]

BKVP: How about a propane/natural gas cat starter? Inject propane into the cat, Ignite, prove ignition with flame rectification, let it go for X time to bring the cat up above ~1000, then briefly interrupt the gas to extinguish the flames and let the cat burn the gas catalytically. Use a "fireye" to continuously prove/monitor cat ignition in this mode. Almost no smoke at startup as the cat will be up to temp. No need for a bypass. The cat will preheat the flue to get the draw started. The wood load could also be started as in the Lopi stoves.

 

[BKVP]

Nice! Is T1 on the combustor backside and T2 combustor frontside?

T1 left front, T2 right front next is rear.

 

[BKVP]

BKVP: How about a propane/natural gas cat starter? Inject propane into the cat, Ignite, prove ignition with flame rectification, let it go for X time to bring the cat up above ~1000, then briefly interrupt the gas to extinguish the flames and let the cat burn the gas catalytically. Use a "fireye" to continuously prove/monitor cat ignition in this mode. Almost no smoke at startup as the cat will be up to temp. No need for a bypass. The cat will preheat the flue to get the draw started. The wood load could also be started as in the Lopi stoves.

Definitely can be done. Problem is test method does not allow..Added expense etc.

 

[Highbeam]

BKVP: How about a propane/natural gas cat starter? Inject propane into the cat, Ignite, prove ignition with flame rectification, let it go for X time to bring the cat up above ~1000, then briefly interrupt the gas to extinguish the flames and let the cat burn the gas catalytically. Use a "fireye" to continuously prove/monitor cat ignition in this mode. Almost no smoke at startup as the cat will be up to temp. No need for a bypass. The cat will preheat the flue to get the draw started. The wood load could also be started as in the Lopi stoves.

Even an electric preheater. Think glow-plugs for a diesel. Same deal.

 

[Highbeam]

If true, and not just something to get us all talking, that's very cool!

I hope you're calling it "The Highbeam".

Ha! As I recall, @Poindexter spent a lot of time and effort on rapid cat activity and emissions reduction. Same reason, minimizing smoke to prevent the smoke police from visiting.

 

[Rangerbait]

Ha! As I recall, @Poindexter spent a lot of time and effort on rapid cat activity and emissions reduction. Same reason, minimizing smoke to prevent the smoke police from visiting.

Who are these smoke police you speak of?

 

[BKVP]

Even an electric preheater. Think glow-plugs for a diesel. Same deal.

A very bright guy has designed computer aided systems for preheating of a combustor.

Interestingly, many of these unit were installed into OWB in Fairbanks. The problem is they all failed. 100%. As our industry has learned the hard way, integration has to be part of the initial design, not an after thought.

The same guy designed a device that reduced emissions from a pre EPA wood stove by 90%! Two problems were uncovered. The cost for the unit is more than a new EPA stove. Second, it reduced thermal efficiency by about (as I recall) 4%. This meant an increase in fuel burnt in order to heat the same given space. Taking into consideration all parameters, it is best to replace old wood stoves with new wood stoves. All of the above transpired in the last 5 years and both involved catalytic combustors.

 

[Highbeam]

Who are these smoke police you speak of?

In the Puget sound area there are smoke police that can write you 1000$ fines for emitting smoke more than 20% opacity. Or the same fine for any burning during our regular burn bans. They drive around in Priuss and then go home to their NG heated homes at night. Part of the wood heat is evil crowd. How did we get here? Nobody knows but a 1000$ fine is IMO unreasonable.

My interest is being a stealth burner. I would be happiest if none of my neighbors even knew I was burning. Clean, comfortable, efficient, low emissions, etc. are all good things whether you're an environmentalist or just a guy trying to save money.

 

[BKVP]

In the Puget sound area there are smoke police that can write you 1000$ fines for emitting smoke more than 20% opacity. Or the same fine for any burning during our regular burn bans. They drive around in Priuss and then go home to their NG heated homes at night. Part of the wood heat is evil crowd. How did we get here? Nobody knows but a 1000$ fine is IMO unreasonable.

My interest is being a stealth burner. I would be happiest if none of my neighbors even knew I was burning. Clean, comfortable, efficient, low emissions, etc. are all good things whether you're an environmentalist or just a guy trying to save money.

Highbeam,

The smoke police are indeed real. The Puget Sound model for enforcement is recognized nationwide. First time offenders are offered an "off ramp" that results in no financial cost. They can, if they own a pre EPA stove, accept the current offer to upgrade to a cleaner burning appliance. If they own a cleaner burning, EPA model and still were found in violation, they can attend a class on proper burning techniques and habits. If they complete the class or replace their old stove, the fine is waived.

If they decline either of the above, the fine is imposed and turned over to the courts for collection.

Repeat violators will receive more severe penalties. This model is now in place in Fairbanks AK and the trend is growing.

The new expression is "Go Out and Look Up". If you see smoke past the normal period necessary to not have visible emissions, do something. The old Ringlemann Chart was done away with in favor of digital photography.

 

[begreen]

Who are these smoke police you speak of?

The situation in Fairbanks is serious due to geography and cold temps. @pointdexter could tell you more about their enforcement efforts to reduce wood smoke pollution. Down here in the Puget Sound region there are about a dozen inspectors covering a large territory. Most fines are placed on repeat offenders turned in by neighbors. They do catch additional random burners, usually when they are in a neighborhood known to have several offenders that ignore the occasional burn bans. Smoke density and the length of smoking is recorded by the inspectors.

 

[BKVP]

The situation in Fairbanks is serious due to geography and cold temps. @pointdexter could tell you more about their enforcement efforts to reduce wood smoke pollution. Down here in the Puget Sound region there are about a dozen inspectors covering a large territory. Most fines are placed on repeat offenders turned in by neighbor. They do catch additional random burners, usually when they are in a neighborhood known to have several offfenders that ignore the occasional burn bans.

BeGreen,

I have been to Fairbanks 6 times this year. Just recently for a conference open to the public for a larger discussion of the unique problems that Fairbanks faces. Sadly, fewer than 10 citizens attended the conference each of the two days. I learned two things, first, the community of concerned folks is pretty restricted to the "environmentalists minded" and the offenders were off having fun. The second item, the Delta red-eye is a horrible flight from FAI to SEA!

 

[Highbeam]

A spade a spade. I can have my non-cat burning with no visible plume of emissions much much faster than the cat stove. Same fuel. I wish I could get this BK to quickly go smokeless. It gets there but not quickly.

So we're allowed like 15 minutes of smoke during cold starts or reloads. That's not enough time with the BK. I would go to this class where I would almost certainly know more about wood burning than the instructor but still would not be able to get a clean plume in time to avoid violation. I'd bet the instructor would tell me cat stoves are bad!

 

[begreen]

BeGreen,

I have been to Fairbanks 6 times this year. Just recently for a conference open to the public for a larger discussion of the unique problems that Fairbanks faces. Sadly, fewer than 10 citizens attended the conference each of the two days. I learned two things, first, the community of concerned folks is pretty restricted to the "environmentalists minded" and the offenders were off having fun. The second item, the Delta red-eye is a horrible flight from FAI to SEA!

That's pretty bad attendance. We get a lot more than that in our little town for school meetings.

At my age any red-eye flight sucks and I am going to be on one in a few weeks.

 

[jetsam]

I preheat my cat with some twigs at the top front of the load. By the time they catch, the stove is cold but the load is burning. Put the cat in when that pile of kindling starts flaming, and it saves waiting for the combustion chamber to heat up because the intake in front of the cat is full of flames.

I had initially worried about thermal shock and flame impingement, but the cat looks pretty good after 2 seasons, which is 70-80% of its rated service life in hours.

There is a closeup pic in my cat bath thread for the curious.

I guess one reason it has not had much impact is that I only start a couple fires a season after it gets cold- she burns 24x7 through the winter.

 

[lsucet]

I never worry about flame impingement cause that is the reason of the shield in front of the cat. Then, why they recommend start the fire in front of the firebox. Anyway, they recommend to burn on high for 20 to 30 minutes after closed the bypass and on reload. In 30 minutes there is hell going on in there. The front shield takes care of that.

 

[webby3650]

I was told by the experts here that I was engaging it "prematurely" at 10-12 minutes.

I was simply trying to help you see that this may not be possible after the cat get some age on it. Some people can pull it off. It takes dry wood and good draft, which many people DO NOT have.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I was simply trying to help you see that this may not be possible after the cat get some age on it. Some people can pull it off. It takes dry wood and good draft, which many people DO NOT have.

I DO have good dry wood (at least for the last 2-3 decades) and I DO have good draft (on every woodstove I've ever installed). To me both of these things are necessary and essential if I'm going to burn wood, not optional. And they are both within my control.

This is really odd, you recently announced to everyone here you had me on "ignore". I'm just wondering how you can respond to people you are ignoring? Makes no sense.

 

[webby3650]

I DO have good dry wood (at least for the last 2-3 decades) and I DO have good draft (on every woodstove I've ever installed). To me both of these things are necessary and essential if I'm going to burn wood, not optional. And they are both within my control.

This is really odd, you recently announced to everyone here you had me on "ignore". I'm just wondering how you can respond to people you are ignoring? Makes no sense.

You know, I had second thoughts after something Highbeam said. I think it was a few others that commented about having you on ignore anyway. Which makes sense, you are always looking for an argument! It gets old dude..

 

[Ashful]

A spade a spade. I can have my non-cat burning with no visible plume of emissions much much faster than the cat stove. Same fuel. I wish I could get this BK to quickly go smokeless. It gets there but not quickly.

So we're allowed like 15 minutes of smoke during cold starts or reloads. That's not enough time with the BK. I would go to this class where I would almost certainly know more about wood burning than the instructor but still would not be able to get a clean plume in time to avoid violation. I'd bet the instructor would tell me cat stoves are bad!

Highbeam, doesn't the small start-up fire before the big load take care of this? I just start cold with a full firebox, but if speed were my goal, I think I'd start with just kindling and a few small splits. Get it hot fast, engage cat, burn it down on high, then reload on a hot coal bed.

 

[Rangerbait]

Is the contact area the corner of the door? I can't tell from the photo.

The contact area on my Chinook is the face of the door a couple inches from the edge. The door only opens 15-20 degrees past 90 so I'm there every reload and I lost paint on the first re-load. How many degrees does the King door open?

I'm afraid that soft magnets would melt and hard magnets would not cushion.

Yes, where the edge of the door contacts the body of the stove. I have been very gently with it even, and still have lost paint. It sounds like it opens about as much past 90 as yours does.

 

[webby3650]

Yes, where the edge of the door contacts the body of the stove. I have been very gently with it even, and still have lost paint. It sounds like it opens about as much past 90 as yours does.

He has an entirely different stove, not applicable.
The princess and king have an angled face, the door often makes contact where yours is. I don’t know of any fixes for it, nor have I heard anyone else bring it up really. I just live with it, then touch up the paint in the spring.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

You know, I had second thoughts after something Highbeam said. I think it was a few others that commented about having you on ignore anyway. Which makes sense, you are always looking for an argument! It gets old dude..

I liked it better when you had me on ignore. You make everything personal. I'm not here for that. Just chill!

 

[webby3650]

I liked it better when you had me on ignore. You make everything personal. I'm not here for that. Just chill!