2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[Poindexter]

@aaronk25 , elbows introduce a crazy amount of resistance. IIRC 2 45s is +/- equivalent to cutting two feet off your stack height, when using 6" pipe.

If you can post a link please to a $20 manometer I would like to have one. Amazon would be good for me since I have a prime account.

 

[lsucet]

@aaronk25 , elbows introduce a crazy amount of resistance. IIRC 2 45s is +/- equivalent to cutting two feet off your stack height, when using 6" pipe.

If you can post a link please to a $20 manometer I would like to have one. Amazon would be good for me since I have a prime account.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009PAN3C8/?tag=hearthamazon-20

 

[aaronk25]

http://www.energyconscious.com/dwye...MI9qaIp-v51wIVDYp-Ch1qzQMvEAQYAyABEgIjqfD_BwE

Or this is the one I have on the wall. https://www.zoro.com/dwyer-instrume...MI9qaIp-v51wIVDYp-Ch1qzQMvEAQYAiABEgLyAfD_BwE




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[MissMac]

The smell of smoke from the t-stat gauge area is possibly the gauge itself where it sets on top of the stove.Pull the gauge out then put gauge back in could be not setting level in the stove. My stove does same thing though of a dab of RTV never did

I've got a fan deck on my stove, so I wonder if the extra height of the t-stat out of the hole could be the issue? i'd think that more people would have the same problem if that was the case though.

 

[aaronk25]

I've got a fan deck on my stove, so I wonder if the extra height of the t-stat out of the hole could be the issue? i'd think that more people would have the same problem if that was the case though.

Nope. The pressure drop differential inside the flue or right behind the cat at the cat thermometer hole is huge. Air sucks in though the hole like crazy. Not out. A fan blowing directly over the hole wouldn’t create enough pressure drop to be able to extract air/smoke out of the hole.

The reason the dollar test is done on door tension is to make sure the door doesn’t let large amounts of air into he fire box which could lead to over firing due to air not being regulated by the thermostat. It’s not done to keep smoke/smell from getting out. Remember the pressure inside the stove is dramatically lower than your room air.

Another example is on a good drafting system with a flat 90 degree run if a hole was drilled say 1/4” on top of the pipe, smoke would not come out except maybe during the first 30 sec of start up. Everything is sucking in.


Like sucking though a straw with a hole in the side, soda doesn’t go out, air bubbles go in.




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[Highbeam]

If that were true then you could open the door and smoke wouldn’t pour out. The pipe is under low pressure but the firebox isn’t always.

 

[black smoke signals]

Could be downdraft playing games with draw or your have a leak in your chimney liner where it connects to the stove.How about a picture of your stove and chimney didn't see one yet

 

[kennyp2339]

With the t stat on high mine will make a whistle noise if I remove the probe

 

[black smoke signals]

Until you get a downdraft from high winds happened to my stove.

 

[MissMac]

Could be downdraft playing games with draw or your have a leak in your chimney liner where it connects to the stove.How about a picture of your stove and chimney didn't see one yet

bad spray paint job on the pipe, but have noticed a semicircle on the front of stove pipe starting to develop - thought maybe just paint curing since that's a hot spot? or could this be an indication of my problem?

 

[kf6hap]

Is the pipe single or double walled?

 

[MissMac]

Is the pipe single or double walled?

double

 

[kf6hap]

Good. I have 17' of straight pipe. The top 4' section was added on to deal with the smoke smell issue. It did the trick. I believe 1 foot of pipe needs to be added each bend. I also believe the minimum in the manual is 15' but check it to be sure so the total stack height should be 17', like mine. My original flue was about 13'. I could have put a shorter piece on and be at the minimum but I figured if I am going to do it, I will put the tallest piece I can buy to be sure of the draw. Your stove is just like mine with a different "skin". I hope the additional length of pipe is doable. My installer had an "air tube" stove when I first met him. He now has a Sirocco and loves it.

 

[MissMac]

Good. I have 17' of straight pipe. The top 4' section was added on to deal with the smoke smell issue. It did the trick. I believe 1 foot of pipe needs to be added each bend. I also believe the minimum in the manual is 15' but check it to be sure so the total stack height should be 17', like mine. My original flue was about 13'. I could have put a shorter piece on and be at the minimum but I figured if I am going to do it, I will put the tallest piece I can buy to be sure of the draw. Your stove is just like mine with a different "skin". I hope the additional length of pipe is doable. My installer had an "air tube" stove when I first met him. He now has a Sirocco and loves it.

Yup i've got a Sirocco too and i like it a lot - just need to figure out the smell issue. i'm going to try adjusting the door seal today and see if that does the trick. if that doesn't do it, i'm going to check the draft, and then if still a mystery, maybe i will have to add some more chimney up top.

 

[Ashful]

If that were true then you could open the door and smoke wouldn’t pour out. The pipe is under low pressure but the firebox isn’t always.

I understand where you’re going with this, but that’s a different issue, Highbeam. He’s talking about a quarter-inch hole in a pipe, with a cross-section completely insignificant by comparison to the pipe diameter (literally, 0.7% of total cross section). You’re trying to equate this to a hole in the front of the stove that’s perhaps 15x - 20x the cross section of the pipe? Your “hole” is 2000x - 3000x the size of his “hole”.

Yes, when you put a 3 - 4 square foot hole in the front of the stove, by opening the door, it may not be under low pressure... I’d be amazed if it were.

 

[kf6hap]

For draw, diameter does not matter, temperature and height do. Note as the flue gasses rise, temperature will drop. Mine pulls .1" at flue probe indicated 400F. Stove pressure (vacuum) access is via the cat thermometer hole with a piece of 1/4" copper pipe. As the flue height is increased, the minimum thermostat setting will be lower for avoiding the smoke smell. Don't feel any urgency or need to actually measure the draw as it is not necessary. Just add flue height.

For those of you who do want to spend the money and measure the draw, I would advise using a .25" full scale Magnehelic and not the slant tube indicator as they are difficult to read and must be perfectly level. They are usually screwed to the side of an air handler to indicate pressure drop across the filter racks. The problem with them was if the filters got too dirty, the drop would such the juice out of the tube. The U shaped"slack-tube" is worthless. Can you discern 1/10 of a 10th of an inch?

 

[kf6hap]

My stove still has a thermometer setting below which smoke smell can be produced but that point is very close to the cat stall point so it does not matter. This makes sense as the flue gasses are just not hot enough to produce the required draw.

For Miss Mac, outside air temperature might play a big role on just where the smoke smell point is.

A gasket change-out can work wonders too, even if the current one is apparently perfect and or new. I believe this is due to having a continuous thick bead of Hi Temp RTV as opposed to a few blobs here and there. My current one is a Rutland graphited rope. They make the RTV too. Available at Ace or online.

 

[MissMac]

My stove still has a thermometer setting below which smoke smell can be produced but that point is very close to the cat stall point so it does not matter. This makes sense as the flue gasses are just not hot enough to produce the required draw.

For Miss Mac, outside air temperature might play a big role on just where the smoke smell point is.

A gasket change-out can work wonders too, even if the current one is apparently perfect and or new. I believe this is due to having a continuous thick bead of Hi Temp RTV as opposed to a few blobs here and there. My current one is a Rutlege graphited rope. They make the RTV too. Available at Ace or online.

ya, stove is brand new - only been using it for 2 weeks now. i get that last week when it was about 0 degrees C outside that maybe there's not enough draw, so having smaller hotter fires is the way to go. but today for example, it is -13 degrees C (-18 with wind chill), and i still couldn't turn it down at all without having the smell. no smoke in the house that i can see, just the smell of creosote/char smell that lingers up near the ceiling with the heat, until i turn the fan on, and then it's super noticeable throughout house.

 

[MissMac]

ya, stove is brand new - only been using it for 2 weeks now. i get that last week when it was about 0 degrees C outside that maybe there's not enough draw, so having smaller hotter fires is the way to go. but today for example, it is -13 degrees C (-18 with wind chill), and i still couldn't turn it down at all without having the smell. no smoke in the house that i can see, just the smell of creosote/char smell that lingers up near the ceiling with the heat, until i turn the fan on, and then it's super noticeable throughout house.

stove door is still tight (holds the paper test), but i think i'm going to adjust it a bit anyway. it has definitely loosened up some since the first firing. any suggestions for how much to tighten the bolt given that it is still holding the paper?

 

[Woody Stover]

A gasket change-out can work wonders too, even if the current one is apparently perfect and or new. I believe this is due to having a continuous thick bead of Hi Temp RTV as opposed to a few blobs here and there

RTV doesn't grow on trees, ya know..

 

[MissMac]

RTV doesn't grow on trees, ya know..

hahahah, duly noted. i just have a hard time thinking that i've got to redo the door gasket 2 weeks into a brand new stove. think i'm gonna try a few things first before i go there.

 

[Ashful]

For draw, diameter does not matter, temperature and height do.

That is not entirely correct. The graphs you reference would be for a static situation, where the inlet is zero or very small. As soon as you have an inlet of any appreciable size, then the size of your outlet matters, it becomes a dynamic situation. This is why chimney size must be varied with fireplace opening size.

 

[kf6hap]

That is not entirely correct. The graphs you reference would be for a static situation, where the inlet is zero or very small. As soon as you have an inlet of any appreciable size, then the size of your outlet matters, it becomes a dynamic situation. This is why chimney size must be varied with fireplace opening size

Yes, I agree. With respect to diameter, the larger the diameter it will take more heat to warm it up too. Having the proper size flue is key here.

The door gasket can be installed with less than one caulk tube.

 

[kf6hap]

i just have a hard time thinking that i've got to redo the door gasket 2 weeks into a brand new stove. think i'm gonna try a few things first before i go there.

I had my installing stove company re-gasket the door one month in from new. Yes, I know it stinks but they did it for free. Yours might too but wait until after the flue is increased as it will be better but likely still smell. Handy re-gasket tip: place paper between the door and the stove so it is not inadvertently glued shut from any squishout. Open the door once to verify the gasket did not roll out, close it and don't open it for 24 hours. No peeking or the flames of Hades might prevail.

Temporary fix: place ~17" strips of Rutland thin flat window glass gasket in both of the lower corners. Place it a little past the dirt marks on the glass. It is self sticking and can be removed. Stick it to the gasket, not the stove. This helped me a lot until I fixed the short flue problem. Available at Ace and other hardware stores.

 

[Woody Stover]

i just have a hard time thinking that i've got to redo the door gasket 2 weeks into a brand new stove. think i'm gonna try a few things first before i go there.

Good thinking. If the stink isn't coming from the door gasket area, no need to do that right away. But it can sometimes be hard to determine exactly where the stink is coming from..