2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[kf6hap]

No matter what stove you have -a 20 or a King- they can all save you an ocean of oil or whatever you burn. You also have a backup heating system if your standard "heater" is inoperable for any reason and you get to enjoy that wonderful radiant heat.

Now this is just me, but in my mind the best wood stove to have is one that would fulfill heating needs %90 of the time and let the house furnace assist with the remaining %10. The smallest stove that will do the job will give you the best turn down (usually) so use of the "furnace" during shoulder season (usually much longer than the "peak" cold) could be avoided resulting in exceptionally good overall fuel economy.

 

[kf6hap]

My current pellet stove is 50,000 BTU and it struggles. Why can't BTU's between brands be compared?

They mislead. Sorry.

Pounds of pellets burned per hour converted to BTUs X efficiency=BTUs out. If the sales brochures state the pounds per hour used and the efficiency, you can know the true BTUs out prior to purchase. The efficiency% could be found on the EPA website.

 

[allan5oh]

Just for clarification that 1300 sq ft house is a bungalow and the main floor is 1300 sq ft. Basement is 1300 as well so the total is 2600. Not sure if you guys size your houses differently down south but that's how we do it in canada. It is considered1300 sq ft

 

[allan5oh]

They mislead. Sorry.

Pounds of pellets burned per hour converted to BTUs X efficiency=BTUs out. If the sales brochures state the pounds per hour used and the efficiency, you can know the true BTUs out prior to purchase. The efficiency% could be found on the EPA website.

To add to that efficiency isn't just one number.

 

[BKVP]

We’ve been discussing this in another thread, and @allan5oh aluded to the correct answer. Oak runs right about 7000 BTU/lb., for all individual species. You can put 60 lb. of wood in the stove, so 420k BTU. The stove does 81% efficiency at HHV, so 340k BTU of that is ending up in your house, at high burn.

At a setting comensurate with a 10 hour burn time, that’s a lowly 34k BTU/hour. However, we all know a Princess can rip thru a 420k BTU load of wood in far less than 10 hours, maybe as little as 4 hours. Do your arithmetic accordingly, but I suspect it can hit north of 150k BTU for the first hour, and then hold above 100k BTU for a couple hours after that.

The actual Btu's per pound of biomass is constant. The variability is within the specific gravity of fuel species. Oak has a higher specific gravity than let's say cottonwood. So a full box of cottonwood might be 40lbs in a stove but the same stove with full load of oak would have more Btu's in the load because there are more pounds.

You have to also not exclude moisture content, which adds to weight.

 

[allan5oh]

Mr. BKVP

Do you guys have any plans to build a stove with princess like operation and flue size but a larger firebox? Or does that upset the balance of the stove?

Also does this mean that all dry wood is around 7000 btus per lb?

 

[kf6hap]

You have to also not exclude moisture content, which adds to weight.

Yep, and water is a double negative here as it adds weight and you have to use big BTUs evaporate it only to send it up the stack, a real BTU loss. Now, if we could condense it. Hmmmm... Liquid smoke anyone?

 

[lsucet]

That is why BK is good at burning with softwood. 2 year of drying oak can still/have a good percentage of MC. On the other hand pine, at 2 year of drying can be into low single digits of MC. It's all btu. The tstat makes a wonderful job. That is why burn times are not that much less. My experience by the way.

 

[Highbeam]

My current pellet stove is 50,000 BTU and it struggles. Why can't BTU's between brands be compared?

Look closely, I would wager that pellet stove rating is “input” btu so the output to the room is reduced by the efficiency. At high burn rates we see pellet stoves well down into the 60% efficient range. The last one I looked up was 56%!

I like the theory of pellet stoves. We have mountains of cheap softwood pellets in the puget sound region. They make bigger stoves though, and more efficient ones. The Harman p68 is what I would suggest if your little 50k rated one isn’t keeping up. Run on lower settings you should get more bang for your fuel buck and still have more power when you need it.

Max btu from a woodstove is not a standardized or even realistic thing to compare. If you’ve ever tried to run a stove at maximum output you will soon be stuck with a pile of coals, the output won’t be constant at the top end. I can rip through 3-4 loads of fuel in my shop woodstove over 12 hours before I have a coal build up condition where I can’t fit fresh wood in and coals don’t burn as hot as fresh fuel! People have been known to scoop out the red coals and trash them to make more room for fresh fuel.

 

[Highbeam]

My current pellet stove is 50,000 BTU and it struggles. Why can't BTU's between brands be compared?

Oh and between brands you will see liars, marketing, assumptions, etc. going into the maximum output number. Bk offers a low output number but spells out the assumptions.

It’s just not a standardized spec like you might think.

 

[BKVP]

Mr. BKVP

Do you guys have any plans to build a stove with princess like operation and flue size but a larger firebox? Or does that upset the balance of the stove?

Also does this mean that all dry wood is around 7000 btus per lb?

1) No plans at this time to build a bigger insert. We (industry stats) show trends away from larger FB/V units. Personally, I would like to see a much larger firebox, even bigger than our King. However, fireplaces overall are not large enough to build a massive insert. Historically, we have made King inserts. They sold much slower than the Princess size type units.

2) Upsetting the balance? A larger FB means larger flue. This limits install applications because we suggest use of insulated liners. The o.d. of an insulated 8" is at least 10". There are "pipe guys" in these forums that can add into this. Also, we would have a larger combustor (think more costly) to handle the increase in gas volume.

3) No wood is perfect dry. Average consumer burns wood in 20% range. 1 pound of wood fuel (air dry – 20% moist.) = about 6,400 Btu.

 

[allan5oh]

Sorry I did mean freestanding but I get your point.

 

[BKVP]

Ohhhhh a bigger freestanding stove....ummmmm. Not on a 6" flue, but then again my stack at home is 8" already. ummmm.

 

[Marshy]

Ohhhhh a bigger freestanding stove....ummmmm. Not on a 6" flue, but then again my stack at home is 8" already. ummmm.

I can see the wheels turning!
It wouldn't take much to make it larger. Just another 8" wider on each side should do it. Keep the same combustors you already use now just put two side by side. I'd be happy to test one for you.

 

[sutphenj]

Ohhhhh a bigger freestanding stove....ummmmm. Not on a 6" flue, but then again my stack at home is 8" already. ummmm.

Any plans for a rear exit free stander? From what i understand the current line of free standers require X amount of vertical pipe and dont allow for immediate rear exit?

 

[jetsam]

No matter what stove you have -a 20 or a King- they can all save you an ocean of oil or whatever you burn. You also have a backup heating system if your standard "heater" is inoperable for any reason and you get to enjoy that wonderful radiant heat.

Now this is just me, but in my mind the best wood stove to have is one that would fulfill heating needs %90 of the time and let the house furnace assist with the remaining %10. The smallest stove that will do the job will give you the best turn down (usually) so use of the "furnace" during shoulder season (usually much longer than the "peak" cold) could be avoided resulting in exceptionally good overall fuel economy.

Well, unless you know of a big wood stove that specializes in low and slow burns.....

 

[jetsam]

Personally, I would like to see a much larger firebox, even bigger than our King. However, fireplaces overall are not large enough to build a massive insert. Historically, we have made King inserts. They sold much slower than the Princess size type units.

I hear 10cf is an excellent firebox size!

(Also, going to eBay to look for a King insert.... oooh, mama.)

 

[Ashful]

However, fireplaces overall are not large enough to build a massive insert.

You need to spend some time going on house calls with your buddies in Kintnersville. Knowing that area very well, I’d suspect a large fraction of their customers have fireplaces substantially larger than my own.

That said, I suspect most folks with a cooking fireplace (8 feet wide is typical, and I have one house in my family with a 12 footer) aren’t going to block it off with an insert. A free-stander in the fireplace is very common, and was a business BK has missed for years, as those folks want pretty VC’s and Jotuls. Now, with the Ashford, you deserve to take that business.

 

[webby3650]

I can see the wheels turning!
It wouldn't take much to make it larger. Just another 8" wider on each side should do it. Keep the same combustors you already use now just put two side by side. I'd be happy to test one for you.

Easier said than done... if it weren’t for the EPA it would be possible. Not to mention the the current trend is toward huge glass, and close clearances, which makes it difficult to make a bigger box and still use a 6” flue. Not to mention emisions testing...

Less and less people are interested in heating their whole house with a woodstove, so a huge stove has less of a market. In order to bring a stove to market, it has to be desired by the masses. That’s my take on why we are seeing fewer and fewer large stoves. It’s too hard to pass EPA testing, and fewer folks are interested. It’s simply too expensive.

 

[Highbeam]

Easier said than done... if it weren’t for the EPA it would be possible. Not to mention the the current trend is toward huge glass, and close clearances, which makes it difficult to make a bigger box and still use a 6” flue. Not to mention emisions testing...

Less and less people are interested in heating their whole house with a woodstove, so a huge stove has less of a market. In order to bring a stove to market, it has to be desired by the masses. That’s my take on why we are seeing fewer and fewer large stoves. It’s too hard to pass EPA testing, and fewer folks are interested. It’s simply too expensive.

I’m afraid you’re right. We’re more likely to see electronic controls, WiFi operated stoves, etc. than more effective whole house heaters.

 

[Marshy]

Check out this stove.

 

[jetsam]

You need to spend some time going on house calls with your buddies in Kintnersville. Knowing that area very well, I’d suspect a large fraction of their customers have fireplaces substantially larger than my own.

That said, I suspect most folks with a cooking fireplace (8 feet wide is typical, and I have one house in my family with a 12 footer) aren’t going to block it off with an insert. A free-stander in the fireplace is very common, and was a business BK has missed for years, as those folks want pretty VC’s and Jotuls. Now, with the Ashford, you deserve to take that business.

Growing up in Missouri, I remember stone fireplaces that I could walk right into. If I had one of those now, I'd want the new rear venting 10cf Emperor!

I do imagine that it's tricky to design what we're asking for, even for a stove company. We year-round heaters want a monster stove capable of the lowest burn rates, with airflow that clears out the whole firebox, and maybe even a functional airwash system to boot. In short, a Princess that we can load once a week in shoulder season.

I'm not a fluid dynamics expert, but I wouldn't be amazed if that was a significant technical ask. (Or maybe it's dead simple, but I don't know any stove engineers that I could ask!)

 

[BKVP]

We're working on a new item or two. If BeGreen or Webby are in Nashville in March they may see them....but no pictures!

 

[webby3650]

We're working on a new item or two. If BeGreen or Webby are in Nashville in March they may see them....but no pictures!

I’ll be there.

 

[Tar12]

I’ll be there.

Don't forget the camera!