2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 2 (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

Well, I have the NC30 on order, but I also have the princess up and running. I installed the new cat on Thursday, also an additional pipe damper approx. 3ft from the top of the stove ( I have double wall telescoping pipe, needed to be above where the two pipes collapse on each other) The stove is running really well, great output, 14-15 hr burns, it has been in the upper teens at night with some wind and the stove has preformed excellent.
I'm at a cross roads here, I think I'm still going to take delivery of the NC30, drop it off at my friends welding shop to do the convection deck and then wait and see what the princess does.
As far as cat issues, self inflicted I think, I think my over draft caused to much heat and fried the cat causing its short 1.5 season life span. This cat btw was a ceramic, so I had the original metal, then ceramic and back to metal. I'm not impressed with the whole needing parts thing, but maybe I stumbled onto something as far as really controlling my draft, I running the top damper closed 100% of the time, this brings my draft down to .010 - .012, then I close the collar damper 1/2 and the flames get nice and soft, new cat (should be over active) but with this setup my cat probe only goes to 1 o'clock position so perhaps I have things in check, the old ceramic cat when brand new without dampers shot up to 5-6pm at the same settings, I specifically remember that.

Glad you got that figured out, Kenny. I’d sure be happy if you kept that Princess, and stayed with us, now that you’ve got it running nice. Only you can decide what works for you.

Since you’re already mod’ing the NC30, maybe it’s worth running it the rest of this year, and hanging onto the Princess a year while you make the final decision. I’d hate to see you sell it, and then have remorse.

When you guys talk about your overdraft issues, is pegging the cat a solid indicator of that? Or, is it possible to have overdraft issues with a cat only 2/3 of the way into the active zone (2 o.c. Position)? All those poor oblivious stove owners out there.

I have pegged the cat thermometer many times on my short chimney, too. So that alone would be a tough way to determine if you have overdraft. The issues I see when draft is too strong are:

1. Hotter chimney.
2. White-hot raging fire if I leave the stove on wide-open throttle for a long time.
3. A clogged cat after a day or two running on high.

Yes, you can install a manometer permanently. Look in last year’s BK performance threads (probably February 2018) for my install. I went with a 0.25”WC Magnehelic, a section of high-temp rubber hose, and then a stainless tube into the chimney penetration. I could drive the stove without this, but it does help, and makes it less intimidating for my wife (she knows to just turn the key damper until Magnehelic reads .05”WC on high burn).

 

[kennyp2339]

Since you’re already mod’ing the NC30, maybe it’s worth running it the rest of this year, and hanging onto the Princess a year while you make the final decision. I’d hate to see you sell it, and then have remorse.

That is the plan

 

[Diabel]

That is the plan

And no cat/probe pegging please!

At 5-6 o’clock you are at around 1900! All cats will disintegrate at that temp! Just ask the VC guys!

 

[lsucet]

I peg mine all the time. BK tstat prove is not an indication of real cat temp except for active/inactive cat. If you use a probe with number, actually the light off point to shut the bypass is around 400 df if you compare the position between both. and when i peg the the bk probe, the condar with numbers is just reading 1200-1300 df.

 

[Ashful]

I peg mine all the time. BK tstat prove is not an indication of real cat temp except for active/inactive cat. If you use a probe with number, actually the light off point to shut the bypass is around 400 df if you compare the position between both. and when i peg the the bk probe, the condar with numbers is just reading 1200-1300 df.

Are you sure about that? I really wouldn’t know one way or the other, but there are several others here who have posted to the contrary.

 

[lsucet]

Are you sure about that? I really wouldn’t know one way or the other, but there are several others here who have posted to the contrary.

I have both and the 500 df mark on the condar is higher ( position wise ). It can be its calibration. But for sure when i peg the bk probe off the scale, the condar reads 1300-1350.

 

[shoot-straight]

i really really like pine and other softwoods in my BK- and im in oak country. as to the same effort for both, i say no way. i can split poplar, pine and others super super fast with my maul. stringy white oak? not so much. you also can pretty much get the wood for free, as most folks think that its not burnable. i just got a pickup truck load of pine cutoffs 6"x4"x8" for nothing. they are in the woodshed now and will be 2020-21 wood. love me some cutoff wood from the sawmill.

and yes to throwing away btus with the coaling issue that can come with using oak and the like.

all that said, for overnight burns in really cold temps i do pull my best oak out. it does burn a bit longer.

 

[lsucet]

I am running out of pine, last year i didnt went for more pine. I still have for maybe two more month, depending on the weather, I will hate to run out.
i have cords of mixed ash, elm and Russian olive. I just hate the elm cause of the ash. I have to clean ashes every 3-4 days with elm. Run out of the Live oak that i had for years to get it out the way. I will bring at least 10 cords of pine this spring. With a good summer should be ready for next season. That is why i like it.

 

[jetsam]

I am running out of pine, last year i didnt went for more pine. I still have for maybe two more month, depending on the weather, I will hate to run out.
i have cords of mixed ash, elm and Russian olive. I just hate the elm cause of the ash. I have to clean ashes every 3-4 days with elm. Run out of the Live oak that i had for years to get it out the way. I will bring at least 10 cords of pine this spring. With a good summer should be ready for next season. That is why i like it.

I ran out last of pine year too. I thought I had enough for this year, but it looks like I could run out again if these cold snaps keep coming...

 

[Diabel]

I peg mine all the time. BK tstat prove is not an indication of real cat temp except for active/inactive cat. If you use a probe with number, actually the light off point to shut the bypass is around 400 df if you compare the position between both. and when i peg the the bk probe, the condar with numbers is just reading 1200-1300 df.

So, you are saying that when your BK probe is pegged and you replace (pull it out) it with condar probe, it will read 1200-1300 ?

 

[lsucet]

So, you are saying that when your BK probe is pegged and you replace (pull it out) it with condar probe, it will read 1200-1300 ?

Yeap. Now, regardless, when you are sleeping or not around, regardless if you dial it low or not, it will spike during the burn cycle. Depending on type of wood, how you loaded etc it will spike and the cat will get hot and the probe will peg sometimes off the scale. On both of my stoves i have the same behavior.
At that point there is nothing to do. When tstat opens including that is on low settings the cat can get super hot, in the middle of the burn? nothing you can do.

 

[Highbeam]

So, you are saying that when your BK probe is pegged and you replace (pull it out) it with condar probe, it will read 1200-1300 ?

I too replaced an easily pegged OEM BK cat meter with a condar meter that has numbers. It stays lower now, the spring must be slightly different, very hard to get the condar cat meter to the top.

I don't think you can assume you know anything about the readings on the BK cat meter except the active/inactive line.

 

[shoot-straight]

I predict Kenny p will be back.

It's like Facebook users who cancel their accounts- 90% come back in a year.

i stand by my post.

 

[lsucet]

So, you are saying that when your BK probe is pegged and you replace (pull it out) it with condar probe, it will read 1200-1300 ?

Are you ever check in the middle of the night the stove room and have the feeling that you let a light on before go to bed, or you didnt know you have a night light in that room?

 

[Woody Stover]

when i peg the the bk probe, the condar with numbers is just reading 1200-1300 df.

There could be other factors at play here. Are the probes the same length...are their tips the same distance from the face of the cat? Does your BK probe have a lot more hours on it? Does it look more corroded at the tip? I've read somewhere that you should replace the probe every couple years..

regardless if you dial it low or not, it will spike during the burn cycle. Depending on type of wood, how you loaded etc it will spike and the cat will get hot and the probe will peg sometimes off the scale....When tstat opens including that is on low settings the cat can get super hot, in the middle of the burn? nothing you can do.

Now, I wouldn't like that at all. Seems the thermostat has its drawbacks, and may not be the "bee's knees" after all, as some here would have us believe..

 

[Diabel]

Could well be, that the probe spring is tensioned differently between the two. The probes look identical other than the face plate. I am pretty sure they are manufactured at the same Chinese factory. Why would they change the tension on the springs..?

 

[lsucet]

There could be other factors at play here. Are the probes the same length...are their tips the same distance from the face of the cat? Does your BK probe have a lot more hours on it? Does it look more corroded at the tip? I've read somewhere that you should replace the probe every couple years..

They look the same except the numbers. if the coil are baked different, i dont know but that is what i see.

Now, I wouldn't like that at all. Seems the thermostat has its drawbacks, and may not be the "bee's knees" after all, as some here would have us believe..

I assume and know the tstat closes but the wood still out gassing. I actually notice that behavior with any wood species but for sure some can create the situation more than others. it has no relation to how tstat works.I dont think there is something wrong neither.

 

[lsucet]

Could well be, that the probe spring is tensioned differently between the two. The probes look identical other than the face plate. I am pretty sure they are manufactured at the same Chinese factory. Why would they change the tension on the springs..?

possibly what is requires is the accuracy of the cat light off, who cares about the rest. Now, the other can be calibrated for more details and accuracy at higher temps. Newer inserts has like a switch only, right?

 

[Diabel]

Another observation is the actual glowing cat. And I am comparing the glow between my VC cat and the BK. My VC cat will glow dull red at around 1100-1300 F and bright orange at 1500-1700 F (danger territory). My BK will glow dull red at about 2 o’clock or according to condar 1200 F. I have only seen the BK probe at 3 o’clock, that would be 1500 F as per condar and the cat was glowing strong red not quite bright orange.

Again, i am pretty sure both cats are produced at the same factory using the same chemical mixes.

 

[MissMac]

i really really like pine and other softwoods in my BK- and im in oak country. as to the same effort for both, i say no way. i can split poplar, pine and others super super fast with my maul. stringy white oak? not so much. you also can pretty much get the wood for free, as most folks think that its not burnable. i just got a pickup truck load of pine cutoffs 6"x4"x8" for nothing. they are in the woodshed now and will be 2020-21 wood. love me some cutoff wood from the sawmill.

and yes to throwing away btus with the coaling issue that can come with using oak and the like.

all that said, for overnight burns in really cold temps i do pull my best oak out. it does burn a bit longer.

i'm in agreement with your sentiment here. i started burning last year - pretty much exclusively jack pine. this year, i was burning some of my pine, and started mixing in a bit of soft maple - seemed to stretch the load by maybe 2 hours or so, but more coal for sure. then, when it got really cold, i tapped into my sweet birch - the best wood i've got. it definitely helps me stretch the burn time during these minus 30-40*C temps by about 2 hours and keep things a tad warmer, however i do not care for the coaling issues it creates. overall, i prefer the pine.

 

[Woody Stover]

I assume and know the tstat closes but the wood still out gassing. I actually notice that behavior with any wood species but for sure some can create the situation more than others. it has no relation to how tstat works.

Hmmm, maybe the thermostat does come into play, differently with different types of wood. If the stove cools, the thermo opens causing more wood to gas, then cat gorges on smoke and gets hot. Eventually the stove and thermo heat up to the point where the thermo cuts the air again. This effect might be more pronounced when you are burning softer woods which off-gas faster when the air is increased.

Another observation is the actual glowing cat. And I am comparing the glow between my VC cat and the BK. My VC cat will glow dull red at around 1100-1300 F and bright orange at 1500-1700 F (danger territory). My BK will glow dull red at about 2 o’clock or according to condar 1200 F. I have only seen the BK probe at 3 o’clock, that would be 1500 F as per condar and the cat was glowing strong red not quite bright orange.

I was just getting ready to mention this. On the Buck 91, I developed a pretty good eye for gauging how hot the cat was burning. When the probe pushed 1800, the cat was glowing bright orange, starting to approach yellow, like this little guy.
The probe tip on the Buck came over the front edge of the cat just a bit, and was maybe 5/8" above the face of the cat. That's about perfect I think. I try for 1/2-3/4" away from the face. The Buck is a 7" probe. Now on the Woodstocks, the cat probe doesn't work, even though the probe is only an inch longer, 8". I think this may be because the probe comes in from the back, instead of the front as in the Buck 91. I'm guessing the air flow near the flue exit sucks the cat heat away from the probe shaft before it can make it to the probe spring and dial. So the Ws probe essentially measures the temp around the rear flue exit in my setup. I use it, but it pretty much mirrors the pipe thermo most of the time, which I have lying on the stainless tee snout, about 5" behind the rear flue collar. I would have to drill through the top stone and cat heat shield to put a short probe directly above the cat.

tapped into my sweet birch - the best wood i've got.

Is that Yellow Birch? That stuff is supposed to be about like White Ash..med/high output.

 

[kennyp2339]

i stand by my post.

I may have over reacted, I've spent a lot of money on this hobby so when things go south I tend to hit a quicker breaking point, my flash over was when the wrong cat was sent to me and I found out it would take another week to get the right one, during which we were suppose to receive the coldest air of the year.
Lets add up some costs:
chimney $2,000 for everything -
BK princess - $3,000 don't remember fully
chainsaws - $1,500
log splitter - $2,500
Tractor - $30,000
Trailers - $2,500
*stupid cat - 300.00 - boil over

BTW - your hideous - I like it lol

 

[lsucet]

I may have over reacted, I've spent a lot of money on this hobby so when things go south I tend to hit a quicker breaking point, my flash over was when the wrong cat was sent to me and I found out it would take another week to get the right one, during which we were suppose to receive the coldest air of the year.
Lets add up some costs:
chimney $2,000 for everything -
BK princess - $3,000 don't remember fully
chainsaws - $1,500
log splitter - $2,500
Tractor - $30,000
Trailers - $2,500
*stupid cat - 300.00 - boil over

BTW - your hideous - I like it lol

Hey, lesson learned. You need to have one on hand. I have two in case. The originals are working strong still.

 

[shoot-straight]

My wife says I love Being right too much..... I disagree.

 

[Diabel]

I may have over reacted, I've spent a lot of money on this hobby so when things go south I tend to hit a quicker breaking point, my flash over was when the wrong cat was sent to me and I found out it would take another week to get the right one, during which we were suppose to receive the coldest air of the year.
Lets add up some costs:
chimney $2,000 for everything -
BK princess - $3,000 don't remember fully
chainsaws - $1,500
log splitter - $2,500
Tractor - $30,000
Trailers - $2,500
*stupid cat - 300.00 - boil over

BTW - your hideous - I like it lol

You are within the 100k. You are golden!