Because with it removed i am blowing air directly across the top where cat is and across the very hot glass door
2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)
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@Montanalocal
There is an allowable draft strength range for these BK stoves. If your chimney is very tall you may have too much draft which could result in stove damage and lower than expected heat output because the heat is getting sucked right out. Your cabin sounds really nice with multiple levels and cathedral ceilings but that all adds up to a tall chimney.
How tall is your chimney? A key damper can be added to being things down into spec if needed.
There is an allowable draft strength range for these BK stoves. If your chimney is very tall you may have too much draft which could result in stove damage and lower than expected heat output because the heat is getting sucked right out. Your cabin sounds really nice with multiple levels and cathedral ceilings but that all adds up to a tall chimney.
How tall is your chimney? A key damper can be added to being things down into spec if needed.
Montanalocal
Minister of Fire
My chimney is 19.5 feet, but I was advised that my draft might be too little because I have a masonry chimney. That is from the top of the stove collar to the top of the chimney. No top restriction. It is an oval 8 X 12. I have been advised by several sweeps that I can not get a liner down it. I realize that BK advises one to get a liner , but that is not to be. Tell me, what is the specs for the draft. I have looked through the manual and I can not find them.
With the 2 90s, high elevation, and 19.5’ I do not think you should be over drafting if it was all 8” round. Some homes can have over 30’ of chimney which can be a problem.
Does anybody have a feeling about how an 8x12 flue would perform compared to an 8” round?
If you decide you want to know the draft spec and can’t find it in the manual then you may need to call BK. If it’s not there then they either purposely or accidentally removed it from the manual.
lsucet
Minister of Fire
I think possibly your setup of 8x12 can be the reason but maybe somebody with experience and knowledge will chime in. We all know that the strongest point if a BK is not a high output compare to non cat stoves but I never have problems getting the stove to 650 and more when I want on a hot reload or when is cold outside and I am too lazy to fire up the other stove. Also I am not heating the square footage that you are heating neither.
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lsucet
Minister of Fire
Well Highbeam is correct. Is better to contact BK for those questions. I read the manual online and it is not mentioning any specs for draft. Ignore the information I give on previous post.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
@Montanalocal - .05"wc is the max draft for the King, test with manometer - stove running at high insert prob into black pipe section 12 - 18" above the flue collar.
The reasoning you should have an insulated liner is that the efficiency of the stove is high and there's also the ability to turn the stove down low for minimal heat, both abilities of this stove equal lower flue gas temps then a regular wood burning stove, if the chimney isnt insulated you will have a much higher chance of creosote formation due to flue gases condensing (below 250 deg f) Even when the stove is cruising along with an active cat, visual flames in the fire box, the flue gas temps are low compared to a similar sized stove. Be prepared to due monthly cleanings is the best advice I can give if you wish to run your setup as is, or try to line the chimney with an approved liner / relocated the stove location to a spot to install class a chimney.
The reasoning you should have an insulated liner is that the efficiency of the stove is high and there's also the ability to turn the stove down low for minimal heat, both abilities of this stove equal lower flue gas temps then a regular wood burning stove, if the chimney isnt insulated you will have a much higher chance of creosote formation due to flue gases condensing (below 250 deg f) Even when the stove is cruising along with an active cat, visual flames in the fire box, the flue gas temps are low compared to a similar sized stove. Be prepared to due monthly cleanings is the best advice I can give if you wish to run your setup as is, or try to line the chimney with an approved liner / relocated the stove location to a spot to install class a chimney.
MacinJosh
Feeling the Heat
the wood Tetris game is strong with this one. Especially with those large chucks. Well done.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
Bill in the U.P.
Burning Hunk
Thank you, thank you, thank you! So glad to know about the higher burn temps being OK. I worried I might be screwing up the cat or something. This is an amazing house (our first winter) but has a LOT of huge windows and a 23' ceiling in the great room. I assured the wife that the King could handle it so she let me order it. Don't they call this "saving face"?
Merry Christmas to you all (and Happy Holidays just in case).
Bill in the U.P.
Merry Christmas to you all (and Happy Holidays just in case).
Bill in the U.P.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
Bill, since everyone draft is different and if you have grave concerns about stove temps for maximum cat life please invest in a probe thermometer to replace the cat probe and keep cat temps below 1500 deg f, past 1500 you can start the stripping or flattening the actual metals that coat the cat honey combs. Its a simple and cheap solution. I mention drafts because all these stoves are tested at a .05 draft, meaning if your running a .10, your going to experience a different type of burn, generally your t-stat will be set lower then say mine for the same results of heat output, vis virsa if you running a .18 vs a .05, then your actually losing potential heat exchange, the stove will run hotter with less heat output into the living area since there draft is literally sucking the heat / combustion faster then the designed heat exchange rate engineered for the stove, meaning hotter cat temps with less btu's going into the room. A probe thermometer can keep you safe by letting you know the actual cat temps, if you have high cat temps, low heat, flames in the firebox with truly dry seasoned wood, then take the next step and consider testing your draft and making an adjustment from there via possible damper.
Bill in the U.P.
Burning Hunk
Ok, thank you. Is there a particular probe thermometer you can recommend? I have a very tall interior double wall chimney, about 19 feet, with two 45's near the ceiling. The draft doesn't seem excessive, maybe because of the two 45's, but I have not measured it.
Starting with a thermometer is a great idea.
I went with the Condar flue probe thermometer, but found that it reads quite low, at least at the BK's rather low flue temperatures, so it's not really accurate. I only use it to determine when the fire is established enough to close the bypass on startup.
I also chose the condar flue temperature meter and recently tested it against a fancy scientific thermocouple and it was spot on. Slower to react to change than a thermocouple but still adequate. My low cruise flue gas temperature is almost never below 400. Even when turned down low for 24 hour burns.
What @kennyp2339 was talking about was chucking the unlabeled BK supplied cat meter for a condar brand replacement with actual numbers. I did that a few years ago, here’s a pic of mine. It’s fun. I have heard rumors that condar makes the oem cat meter as well.
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
I’m curious. I put the stove top temp gauge maybe not in the best spot but it still gives me an idea how hot the stove is at that spot doesn’t it? And I try to keep it in the safe zone. While there may be cooler spots to place it, doesn’t it represent a safe temperature for the stove? And when I have it running between 5-700 degrees it seems to be putting out as much heat as a different stove would be at the same temperature. Am I way off on this?
Nelson
Feeling the Heat
A piece of advice since it seems we have a few new BK owners starting to post. Go back and read the 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 BK Performance threads. A ton of useful information in there and I bet it would answer most questions you have. It might take a little but it will be enlightening - this is coming from someone who has purchased 2 BKs over the past several years. I read through both of those posts, front to back and they were immensely helpful - especially as it relates to how folks run their stoves for best performance.
Happy ready!
Happy ready!
The BK is not like a regular stove. That catalyst is the major source of heat (most of the time) and should be hanging out at 1200 or so. The temperature right on top of it should be pretty much always the same.
It doesn’t hurt to monitor surface temperature but I would not recommend making any decisions based on it. Plus, mine scratched the heck out of my stove top paint!
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Maybe start with the oldest one. Some of us, at least myself, have learned some lessons along the way.
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
I guess that’s my confusion, my cat probe is about 1/2” from the top and my gauge will be about 650ish. If let’s say, I set this same gauge on a tube stove that should be putting out more heat, would the gauge read higher? Not that it makes much difference to me, it’s working just fine but I was curious to the question of why a different stove would heat the house better. I’m actually feeling really good about everything but I’m trying to get ready for questions that my neighbor may ask me. He doesn’t use the internet.
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Hi, Everybody!
Sorry to drop in with random, but I do want to follow up about adding the convection deck and blowers to our circa 2014 Princess.
I inquired here before we ordered these accessories. You replied that it was a good investment.
All I can say is, WOW. WOW. AND THANK YOU!
It has made a HUGE difference. The convection deck collects heat, and the fans push it off of the stove efficiently, and aid the natural thermal exchange currents in the house. Heat distribution throughout the house is more even.
I'm sure many or most of you already know this but stripping heat off of the stove, combined with Blaze King's proprietary t-stat, somehow makes the stove run more efficiently. We are burning down comfortably with little to no 'coal up.'
Husband painted the stove and stove pipe before we started this season (high heat stove paint) and we replaced the CAT thermometer with a new Blaze King CAT thermometer. We'd faded the paint on the original one with a few too many steamer boil overs, LOL. (We got better at that.)
Of course, as always/every year, Husband cleaned the chimney as well, and we pulled the stove pipe and vacuumed behind the CAT, and pulled the flame guard and vacuumed the front of the CAT as well.
So we have new paint, a new CAT thermometer, new blowers and a new convection deck. Darn if the CAT isn't acting like a brand new CAT. It will hit the top end without even trying! We vacuum behind the CAT every year when we clean the chimney and pull the stove pipe, and we remove the flame guard and vacuum the front out a few times each season- so it's not about a clogged CAT.
Not sure if it's the new CAT thermometer, or the whole stove/system working more efficiently with the blowers and the convection deck, or the new paint LOL, but Princess is running like a brand new stove.
Thank you as always, Wise Ones, for your input and help! <3
Sorry to drop in with random, but I do want to follow up about adding the convection deck and blowers to our circa 2014 Princess.
I inquired here before we ordered these accessories. You replied that it was a good investment.
All I can say is, WOW. WOW. AND THANK YOU!
It has made a HUGE difference. The convection deck collects heat, and the fans push it off of the stove efficiently, and aid the natural thermal exchange currents in the house. Heat distribution throughout the house is more even.
I'm sure many or most of you already know this but stripping heat off of the stove, combined with Blaze King's proprietary t-stat, somehow makes the stove run more efficiently. We are burning down comfortably with little to no 'coal up.'
Husband painted the stove and stove pipe before we started this season (high heat stove paint) and we replaced the CAT thermometer with a new Blaze King CAT thermometer. We'd faded the paint on the original one with a few too many steamer boil overs, LOL. (We got better at that.)
Of course, as always/every year, Husband cleaned the chimney as well, and we pulled the stove pipe and vacuumed behind the CAT, and pulled the flame guard and vacuumed the front of the CAT as well.
So we have new paint, a new CAT thermometer, new blowers and a new convection deck. Darn if the CAT isn't acting like a brand new CAT. It will hit the top end without even trying! We vacuum behind the CAT every year when we clean the chimney and pull the stove pipe, and we remove the flame guard and vacuum the front out a few times each season- so it's not about a clogged CAT.
Not sure if it's the new CAT thermometer, or the whole stove/system working more efficiently with the blowers and the convection deck, or the new paint LOL, but Princess is running like a brand new stove.
Thank you as always, Wise Ones, for your input and help! <3
The tube stove doesn’t necessarily put out more heat or heat the room better. That surface meter on a tube stove will also read the stove top temperature but on the tube stove you will see more variation and that information might guide you for operating it.
I have the same meter on my noncat right now. In fact, I have two. They are becoming less useful since I monitor flue temperature which offers real time information about burn rate.
For your neighbor, just keep it simple. Full throttle startup, engage the cat when the cat meter says active, wait a bit until fire is well established and then adjust the thermostat down for desired heat output.
That extra surface temperature gauge adds no useful information. Maybe get him a room temperature thermometer instead.
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If you would place the magnetic thermometer on the other side of the cat probe, i bet the temp reading would be higher. In my opinion however the stovetop reading is totally meaningless.
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