Advise on Enviro Boston 1700 vs BK Ashford 25 and Several Newbie (yet specific) Questions

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Yes with a freestander that is the easiest way for sure. I for some reason though this thread was about an insert. It isnt a big deal at all on a freestander. I find it much easier and i can be sure i am thorough if i pull the cat when it cant be accessed from above. There is also a danger of damaging the back of the cat with the vacume hose. But either way on bks it isnt hard to pull the cat. Unless the housing warps a little which i have seen.

Why do you pull the bricks? There is no need to do that at all.

Yeah, OP is looking at an insert, I was taking a tangent... I’m known for that.

I never thought it was necessary to pull the bricks, but my stove dealer always insisted on doing it each year, so I started doing it. Of course, the day I walked in on them hammering the hell out of my brand new stove with a 2 lb. hammer and a steel chisel to remove a stubborn brick in the back corner, I decided I was done with that stove shop.
 
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Yeah, OP is looking at an insert, I was taking a tangent... I’m known for that.

I never thought it was necessary to pull the bricks, but my stove dealer always insisted on doing it each year, so I started doing it. Of course, the day I walked in on them hammering the hell out of my brand new stove with a 2 lb. hammer and a steel chisel to remove a stubborn brick in the back corner, I decided I was done with that stove shop.
We dont touch the bricks untill they are wirn or cracked bad enough they no longer stay in place. The back bricks in my stove have been cracked for 3 years now. But no need to change them yet.
 
Likewise. Our bricks have stayed in place since 2008. I inadvertently cracked a rear brick a couple years ago by forcing in a split too aggressively, but it is still holding firm and will stay there until it starts to fall apart.
 
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Thanks, guys. I was asking myself whether I should bother this year, and figured since the dealer insisted on getting them out (at great effort and hammering), I'd do the same. Of course, I was able to just lift them out, no hammering or chisels involved.

From now on, they will stay in place.
 
I talked to Captain Soot today again regarding insulation of the liner. He said if we put blanket , it wont fit to my flue. He said he will insulate it from top of the chimney with ceramic insulation.
When I insisted about the liner insulation, he said he would charge extra $1000 for it and to fit it in my flue he needs to squeeze the insulation blanket that will defeat the purpose of the insulation.
I didn’t want to spend extra $1000 for it. I hope I won’t regret it. I ordered Ashford 25 today to be installed on October 3rd. Hopefully it will work out well.


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A little insulation at the top isn’t likely to do anything comparable to a block off plate. You can make one yourself after the install. I added mine after the install without taking out the insert or detaching the liner. You can figure it out - it doesn’t have to be perfect or look nice. All it really has to do is not fall down.


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I really don’t know the size of it. But I didnt want to pay extra $1000 without making sure it would nicely with the insulation.



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Did the Captain clean and measure it already? If it’s a wide square you’d be fine, if it’s something like 7 x 11 inch rectangle, it would be tight without knocking out the clay. My guess is that he just doesn’t want to do it. Insulation isn’t that expensive but labor may be.




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I talked to Captain Soot today again regarding insulation of the liner. He said if we put blanket , it wont fit to my flue. He said he will insulate it from top of the chimney with ceramic insulation.
When I insisted about the liner insulation, he said he would charge extra $1000 for it and to fit it in my flue he needs to squeeze the insulation blanket that will defeat the purpose of the insulation.
I didn’t want to spend extra $1000 for it. I hope I won’t regret it. I ordered Ashford 25 today to be installed on October 3rd. Hopefully it will work out well.


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Ok so because it might be a little harder to do he isnt going to bother with code??

I will assume your flue is 7x11 because that is the only standard fireplace flue that would be a problem. But there are options to do it right. You can use an oval liner which would allow enough room for insulation. The clay liners could be removed which would make room or duraliner may be able to be used. All of these will add cost but it should be nowhere near $1000. I would keep looking for someone who isnt a hack and will install it correctly.
 
Ok so because it might be a little harder to do he isnt going to bother with code??

I will assume your flue is 7x11 because that is the only standard fireplace flue that would be a problem. But there are options to do it right. You can use an oval liner which would allow enough room for insulation. The clay liners could be removed which would make room or duraliner may be able to be used. All of these will add cost but it should be nowhere near $1000. I would keep looking for someone who isnt a hack and will install it correctly.

Is it really in the code for NYC?
It says some states require but not all on the net.
I called every single dealer in my area and no one does it so I assume it is not in the code.


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Is it really in the code for NYC?
It says some states require but not all on the net.
I called every single dealer in my area and no one does it so I assume it is not in the code.


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Yes ny uses irc and nfpa211. That says that you need 1" of clearance from the outside of the masonry structure to any combustible material for an external chimney and 2" for an internal chimney. Out of the thousands of chimneys i have looked at almost none have that. So it is very unlikely yours does. And if it doesnt you need insulation.

I beleive the info you got from the net is not accurate. Wisconsin is the only state which doesnt follow irc. But they do have their own code which contains the same requirement.
 
Is it really in the code for NYC?
It says some states require but not all on the net.
I called every single dealer in my area and no one does it so I assume it is not in the code.


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Honestly nyc is known for having lots of shady sweeps. Just because many of them choose to ignore code doesnt mean doing so is safe or the right way to do it.
 
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Honestly nyc is known for having lots of shady sweeps. Just because many of them choose to ignore code doesnt mean doing so is safe or the right way to do it.

I agree with Ashful that I wish we had someone like you in our area.
Do you mind a quick trip to NYC for the installation? :)



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A little insulation at the top isn’t likely to do anything comparable to a block off plate. You can make one yourself after the install. I added mine after the install without taking out the insert or detaching the liner. You can figure it out - it doesn’t have to be perfect or look nice. All it really has to do is not fall down.


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Great advice. What did you use and how did you make it not to fall?


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It was 3200 for flat black. 3600 enamel brown. That was me picking up stove and installing myself. No liner. So 4200 for it installed with liner seems like a good price. The liner, unisulated, and associated pieces was 500 ish. I’m in Suffolk, East Northport. About one from nyc. Last year I installed a cute little Vermont Castings intrepid. Heats well but not for long, and it can eat through decent amount of wood.
Keep us updated
Rob

I am not handy at all to insert it my self. But I think his price is reasonable. I’ll have it installed on October 3rd. When are you getting yours?


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Your payback tine ultimately comes down to the price for your primary heat - natural gas- versus your price for stove fuel.

If you can get a million BTUs of natural gas for $100 and a million BTUs of compressed logs for $80, your break even point on an upgraded burner is kinda long.

But if you pay $100 for a million BTUs of natural gas and you can get pallets of bio-logs for $20 per million BTU, your payback is much shorter.

Local to me, for the same amount of energy, calories, BTUs, Joules, whatever, cord wood is $1, fuel oil for my oil furnace is $2, and electricity is $10.

I looked at our gas usage in the 8 months window of gas usage for heating in the last two winters/years excluding gas for hot water and cooking. The numbers are strikingly similar =1101 therm and 1103 therm.
Average of 1102 therm that makes about 110273790 BTU.


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Don’t know if this helps but this is the kit I got for the most part. It is pre insulated and has a diameter of 7 1/4”. Just need to select your options. You really need to get your measurements of the flue and your current damper area to see if it will fit and what will need to be modified to get it to fit.

I agree with the others call a certified sweep and get his opinion and what will need to be done.

https://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chim...n-Pre-Insulated-Easy-Flex-Chimney-Liner-Kit-6


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25
 
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Don’t know if this helps but this is the kit I got for the most part. It is pre insulated and has a diameter of 7 1/4”. Just need to select your options. You really need to get your measurements of the flue and your current damper area to see if it will fit and what will need to be modified to get it to fit.

I agree with the others call a certified sweep and get his opinion and what will need to be done.

https://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chim...n-Pre-Insulated-Easy-Flex-Chimney-Liner-Kit-6


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

He is going to use the on this site:
Is it a bad brand?

http://www.chimcapcorp.com/displayproductconfig.html?tablename=liners&type=108


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I have never heard of the brand but that type in my opinion is absolute junk. We typically use either midweight or heavy wall liners for wood stoves. Standard lightwall works fine but wont hold up as long as the other 2. That 2 ply stuff just is not durable at all.

I have called every BK dealer in NY, CT, and NJ.
They ALL told me the same thing that they don’t use blanket or preinsulated liner. One dealer/installer in NJ told me exactly the same thing Captain Soot told me that preinsulated liner is needed in up North or in colder climates.




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I have called every BK dealer in NY, CT, and NJ.
They ALL told me the same thing that they don’t use blanket or preinsulated liner. One dealer/installer in NJ told me exactly the same thing Captain Soot told me that preinsulated liner is needed in up North or in colder climates.




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Has nothing to do with climates




Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25
 
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