Alderlea T5 - confused by operation

[Offset]

I have had this stove since October 2012. I seem to have run into some performance issue with the stove. I seem to get a huge buildup of very hot coals, so much so that it is hard to get more wood in. I have tried to rake the coals forward and add small splits to run the stove hot to burn the coals down. Does not seem to work so well.

I know the stove needs a new door gasket, it has come loose and seems very inflexible. I don't seem to be getting much in the way of a secondary burn, no rolling flames under the baffle. So I am wondering if the insulation material that goes up the side and slightly over the baffle needs replaced. I cannot see the material at all on the left side of the stove when looking up through the glass. Could this be the issue with the burn that I am getting.

The wood is primarily maple and beech and my moisture meter says it is right around 20%, some pieces are less. The stove responds immediately to changes in the air flow but does not seem to be making much heat. My wife says it is freezing in here so I know it is cold! Usually she is cursing the stove.

So I have a new door gasket on order from my dealer should I order the insulation kit as well (hopefully you can order the parts separately). Could this insulation and or perhaps its condition be my problem?

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[begreen]

Our side insulation strips are starting to get a bit ragged. They are 8 seasons old and will be replaced this summer. The stove still burns well. Getting the stove door gasket fixed is important. Leakage can disrupt air flow.
Some other thoughts:
Chimney cap screen plugged?
When was the chimney last cleaned? Is there is a screen in the cap was it checked for clogging?
Baffle feed tube?
When was the baffle last removed? When cleaning the secondary feed tube needs to have a rag stuffed into it to prevent it getting plugged with creosote. The side insulation should be up against it when it is put back in. There should have been a gasket placed around the secondary feed tube. The baffle needs to go all the way back, up and then on top of the feed tube, not just back against it. It is right when the pin can correctly be placed in.

 

[Hogwildz]

The door gasket PE uses is high density, and is not as fluffy, soft and flexible as regular low density rope gasket. By loose, what do you mean? If it is falling off or disconnecting from the door, you may be able to reattach with silicone. You can also adjust the door for a snugger fit, but These gaskets do not require a super tight fit. Too tight and you will prematurely wear the gasket or even door latch parts out.

Build up of coals are usually from either not burning hot enough & /or loading too often. If there was a door leak, it should burn down faster, and also would be harder to control and burn hotter due to the added air.

You should be able to see the insulation, not sure how much that would affect burn though. Make sure the boost manifold at the front inner lower area of the stove has no ash clogging the holes. I tilt mine forward to knock the ash forward and then use my poker sliding the hook parts against the manifold back and forth at the holes to make sure they are clear of ash. I do this every reload.

 

[Offset]

Thank you very much for the responses, it is a bit of a mystery. I set the stove for an overnight burn and this morning the box was half full of very hot coals, lots of heat still being generated but I never seen so much coal before. Raked it to the front and added a couple of splits, I will try running it a bit hotter to see what happens. The stove is still very responsive to air adjustments.

The chimney was cleaned just prior to the heating season this year. We took the baffle out to do the cleaning so I am wondering if the gaskets and the insulation should have been replaced at that time. For certain the gasket should have been looked at with a little more interest.

The door gasket has come away from the door in a couple of spots. I appreciate knowing the difference in texture of the materials themselves. It is supposed to warm up on the weekend so I think I will let it go out (if I get the parts in time) and replace the insulation, gaskets and make sure the tube(s) are not blocked. I will also clean the chimney and inspect the cap closely.

Again, thanks for the input. I will let you know how the maintenance and inspection goes.

 

[Offset]

Hogwildz, I had a look at what I think is the "boost manifold". Is the part that you clean with each ash emptying the angled piece of metal right at the front but right inside stove right under the door? If that is the part you clean mine does not seem to be able to be moved or tilted, it appears to be fixed in place so perhaps I am not looking at the correct or same part you are referring to?

Just so weird, it is burning but so little heat. I need to check everything suggested as soon as possible.

Thanks again.

 

[TedyOH]

I set the stove for an overnight burn and this morning the box was half full of very hot coals, lots of heat still being generated but I never seen so much coal before.

" This morning the box was half full of very hot coals..."So I'm kinda confused, you think this is a bad thing? "I never seen so much coal before", meaning red hot coals or black un-burned coals?

 

[Offset]

TedyOH, you are right it is not a bad thing to have all the red hot coals, they are still providing much needed heat. However typically the load would have burned down enough overnight that I could rake the coals forward and start the process again. There were so many in there this morning I could not add more than a couple of small splits. The stove is definitely not working the way it should. Full of coals and couple of splits and I could just get 400 degree exhaust with the air wide open. I would think that the thermometer was off but the heat gun is telling me the stove top temperature is about the same. The house is cold.

For certain something seems to be blocking air flow. I found a dealer this morning that has the parts I need so hopefully Friday afternoon I can get the chimney looked at and clean the entire stove checking for blockages in the air channels. Install the new gaskets and insulation blanket.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hogwildz, I had a look at what I think is the "boost manifold". Is the part that you clean with each ash emptying the angled piece of metal right at the front but right inside stove right under the door? If that is the part you clean mine does not seem to be able to be moved or tilted, it appears to be fixed in place so perhaps I am not looking at the correct or same part you are referring to?

Just so weird, it is burning but so little heat. I need to check everything suggested as soon as possible.

Thanks again.

Yes, the boost manifold is the angles plate in the front lower inner part of the stove, just under the door. On the Summit and other PE inserts & stoves, it is removable. Sits in place with two small pins in front of it to hold it in place. The face of the place just rests against the back of the pins or some are tabs on the older models.If the holes in that are blocked with ash, that will affect performance. In my opinion the condition of the door & widow gaskets are the only gaskets detrimental to the stove burning. The baffle side baffle gaskets & air channel baffle gaskets should no impede performance that much.

If I am understanding correctly, you have a ton of coals and much heat off them in the morning.This may or may not be normal. If the issue is with the coals there holding up reload, you may have to check what species you're burning and mix it up a little, soft with hard, or load sooner at night. Or there is the chance the wood is wetter than normal, and taking longer to dry out, causing cooler temps, and burn longer off time.

Maybe your burning skills or wood species have improved giving you longer heat producing times. Don't think of burn time as actual flame time. The wood will turn to coals and still produce the needed heat. When it drops below the point where it heats the house, OR when you still have enough coals to reload and get it lite off easily, that is what I consider burn time. But then again, many of us have different views and meaning of burn time. Not many consider it just the flame time though. I would guess that to be only 12 to 3/4 of the actual usage of the fuel to make decent heat.

Your skills will improve over the next few years, as may the wood. I used to load 3x per day, every 8 hrs. Then over the years as my wood, patience, and burning skills improved, I went to loading 2x per day, every 12 hours. In the shoulder season, I load maybe 1x per day, usually with needing a relight the next day.

Now at 2x per day, I am saving 3-1/2 days wood with the 1x per day I am no longer loading and burning each day. And much less coal issues, almost non existent.

 

[begreen]

The baffle gasket needs to be replaced with each removal. They're cheap so I use two and double them up. Hogwildz got tired of this and made his own out of 3/8" gasket material. Both ways work. Another PE owner cut his out of a welding blanket.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pe-summit-gasket-measurements.79217/



Does the chimney cap have a screen? The reason I ask it that we had ours plug up after only a month of burning one year due to damp wood. It may also plug up if a lot of cardboard, or paper (gift wrapping?) is burnt.

 

[Hogwildz]

The baffle gasket needs to be replaced with each removal. They're cheap so I use two and double them up. Hogwildz got tired of this and made his own out of 3/8" gasket material. Both ways work. Another PE owner cut his out of a welding blanket.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pe-summit-gasket-measurements.79217/

View attachment 171236

Does the chimney cap have a screen? The reason I ask it that we had ours plug up after only a month of burning one year due to damp wood. It may also plug up if a lot of cardboard, or paper (gift wrapping?) is burnt.

I have located a high heat type matting that I have made a new baffle gasket out of. I will see how well it does or doesn't hold up next cleaning in the fall. I bought a 24" x 12" square of it, and cut my own baffle gasket out of it. The newer stove baffle gasket design had changed. Instead of the regular rectangle gasket, it now has strips coming off both sides that run the entire length to the stove sides. As usual, the factory gaskets are same material and are worth shat when you pull the baffle. We'll see how well this material I found works.

 

[madison]

Agree with all of the above, and would add: regarding the manifold booster - i completly remove the manifold booster and clean behind it every couple weeks as well as rake out along the front with each reload. I am burning almost 100% locust and the ash seems quite dense so I am a bit concerned with air flow restriction if that ash builds up in and on the manifold booster. And each off season I take the shop vac and attempt to suck out the air inlets behind the manifold. I also remove the baffle, shop vac the secondary air channel in the rear of the stove and suck the fine ash that builds up like cement on top of the baffle and the baffle holes etc etc etc.

BTW Hog my 3/8" "Hog style" baffle gasket looks just about the same as the first day I tied it, probably at least 5 yrs ago. Thanks for all your tips.
Also Begreen my baffle insulation is looking a bit seedy in the rear sections on both sides, I reversed the insulation this year so the seedy areas are up front. The baffle itself is hanging in there, sagging a bit in the middle, but still has many yrs of burning left in it IMHO.

 

[begreen]

I'm sagging a bit in the middle too after all these years. Gravity works.

 

[Mike M.]

I have located a high heat type matting that I have made a new baffle gasket out of. I will see how well it does or doesn't hold up next cleaning in the fall. I bought a 24" x 12" square of it, and cut my own baffle gasket out of it. The newer stove baffle gasket design had changed. Instead of the regular rectangle gasket, it now has strips coming off both sides that run the entire length to the stove sides. As usual, the factory gaskets are same material and are worth shat when you pull the baffle. We'll see how well this material I found works.

After reading this I had to check mine. I have the new type (full length) and guess what it is broken after 3 months of use. Nice, I think the installers broke it. Also my fireplace never had the pin. Using stainless bolt currently.

 

[Offset]

Well first of all I want to thank everyone for the input and advice, truly appreciated.

I have always believed when it comes to troubleshooting you should only replace or fix one part at a time. That theory did not works so well with my stove. LOL.

I purchased a PE door gasket, PE baffle insulation kit, baffle gasket (taking BG's advice I installed two). I cleaned the entire stove and frankly was surprised at the amount of ash still in the stove. I took the boost manifold out and found some hard packed ash behind it, I had never taken this out before. Cleaned the chimney and chimney cap. Both were quite dirty, especially the cap. I did burn some very suspect wood early in the heating season and that combined with a warm fall early winter seemed to have created some creosote issues.

The baffle insulation was charred in a couple of spots, the side material was in sad shape. The door gasket as mentioned in the first post was coming away from the door in a few spots and appeared to be "flattened" out in a couple of spots. The baffle gasket had completely disappeared, it was just dust. So I am thinking that it was a combination of problems, problems that I should have caught prior to the heating season. So again I appreciate the advice.

So the stove now seems to be back to running normally, nice controlled fire overnight with a reasonable bed of hot coals this morning. We have heat again, controlled heat at that.

 

[BlackGreyhounds]

Could someone please post a picture of the "boost manifold"? I'm not sure I know about this.

 

[Offset]

Could someone please post a picture of the "boost manifold"? I'm not sure I know about this.

I wish I had taken a photo yesterday when I had it all apart. When you open the door, at least on mine, there is a steel plate about 14" long that angles down towards the firebrick on the bottom of the stove. It is attached by a couple of pins fixed to the frame inside the stove. It just lifts out. It has a number of holes in that allow air to be directed at the flames right at the bottom of the stove. I never knew it came out, not much air would have been flowing through mine. It was pretty solidly packed with ash.

 

[begreen]

Hogwildz posted some pictures of his Summit's boost manifold here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/summit-t6-boost-maniflold.26806/#post-357839