Another help me choose add on furnace

Gbawol42

New Member
Dec 16, 2018
34
Saint Ignace, MI
So what I get from this is, on a warmer year you have a similiar heat load to us, and the Tundra would for sure do a fine job most of the time. On a colder year, you may have to supplement the Tundra with 200 gallons of propain during the colder times...
I like the way you are putting it, making a lot of sense.

I just spent yesterday and this morning reading the whole tundra thread on this forum, wow tons of info there. I wish there were more people posting that actually had the t2, but maybe, like you have said before, only the people that are having issues are posting. No news is good news? Have you heard if they are still having any of the issues with the t2 that you guys had with the t1?
 

Case1030

Member
Dec 12, 2017
185
Manitoba
I like the way you are putting it, making a lot of sense.

I just spent yesterday and this morning reading the whole tundra thread on this forum, wow tons of info there. I wish there were more people posting that actually had the t2, but maybe, like you have said before, only the people that are having issues are posting. No news is good news? Have you heard if they are still having any of the issues with the t2 that you guys had with the t1?
Their are 3 guys I know who are in the general area around me that own drolet furnaces. Two of them own heatpacs and the other guy owns a heatpro, one year heating for them and no complaints with ether one. None of them are using temp controllers either which prolonged/ saved the old t1s from cracking.

I own the tundra 2 but haven't owned it long enough to really know... What I can say is all the newer drolet lineup of furnace owners have no complaints. Essentially the only difference I could find were the firebox size/ ash box size/ heatexchanger size. Same design from what I could tell just upsized.

If you dont have the cash for a Kuuma then this lineup is the next in line. Unless you wanted to go indoor boiler route then you will have more options.
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,138
Wisconsin Dells, WI
That would make since, the less your cleaning the less junk is in the pellet, thus more btus availible. From the reviews I have heard they all say to stay away from the big box stores and youll be fine. To be honest the most I have never seen a ton of pellets around here is 300 a ton. I've done quite a bit of math and if it ever came close to burning lp cheaper I would do it in a heartbeat haha. My breakeven would be propane down to 1.20 or the pellet going up to 300 a ton at current lp prices.

I'm not really saving much burning the pellet stove, my calculations are around 500-700 a winter over propane.

I could see myself having a setup like yours when I am all said and done, I love keeping track of numbers and adjusting things to get the most efficiency out of my appliance. I literally have a half full notepad of this furnace purchase, return on investment time, how much I would save, things I have found on this forum, etc. My wife thinks I'm crazy sometimes

Got a reply from my buddy.

-THESE- are what I burn. I get six tons for $316/ton, but if you add in my delivery charge of $155, then I get them for $341.83/ton, which comes out to $8.55/bag. That is almost double what I can get Marth hardwood pellets for($192/ton delivered) but I literally have to clean my stoves twice all winter long burning three tons in each stove(just vacuum and empty ash bin). When I burned Marth, I would have to clean the stove every three to four weeks. I guess I pay to be lazy. J

-HERE- is what he is probably burning. I could buy them from Earth Energy Systems for $189/ton, but I would probably have to spend the extra $155 on delivery as I have a deal worked out with them that if I buy all six tons of their best pellets from them that they only charge me for three tons being delivered($55/ton delivery). So I would end up paying $330 for delivery, which would make it $244/ton and $6.10 per bag.

I don’t really know how efficient my stove is. I know there is a big fluxuation in different stoves. You can get stoves pretty cheap from Menards but I know you burn a crap-ton more pellets with them. Both of my stoves are the Harman P43.
 

Gbawol42

New Member
Dec 16, 2018
34
Saint Ignace, MI
Got a reply from my buddy.

-THESE- are what I burn. I get six tons for $316/ton, but if you add in my delivery charge of $155, then I get them for $341.83/ton, which comes out to $8.55/bag. That is almost double what I can get Marth hardwood pellets for($192/ton delivered) but I literally have to clean my stoves twice all winter long burning three tons in each stove(just vacuum and empty ash bin). When I burned Marth, I would have to clean the stove every three to four weeks. I guess I pay to be lazy. J

-HERE- is what he is probably burning. I could buy them from Earth Energy Systems for $189/ton, but I would probably have to spend the extra $155 on delivery as I have a deal worked out with them that if I buy all six tons of their best pellets from them that they only charge me for three tons being delivered($55/ton delivery). So I would end up paying $330 for delivery, which would make it $244/ton and $6.10 per bag.

I don’t really know how efficient my stove is. I know there is a big fluxuation in different stoves. You can get stoves pretty cheap from Menards but I know you burn a crap-ton more pellets with them. Both of my stoves are the Harman P43.
To be honest the the differences in pellet quality, even year to year, and the fact they are creeping up in price is also what is making me go to burning wood instead
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,072
NE Ohio
I wasn't thinking about you having the pellet stove too...so between the Tundra, the pellet stove, and the propain furnace, you got it covered!
 

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
527
Mass
To be honest the the differences in pellet quality, even year to year
That is the truth.. one year the pellets are perfect and the next all over the place with clumps.

I have the Hartman Accenture 52i insert.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Case1030

Gbawol42

New Member
Dec 16, 2018
34
Saint Ignace, MI
That is the truth.. one year the pellets are perfect and the next all over the place with clumps.

I have the Hartman Accenture 52i insert.
I am currently have a clumping issue with a pellet brand that burned awesome last year. Pretty much cleaning burn pot every 2 days. Guess it all depends on where the company gets the wood that they compress. I heard the ones that get sawdust from hardwood furniture makers are usually the best.
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,138
Wisconsin Dells, WI
To be honest the the differences in pellet quality, even year to year, and the fact they are creeping up in price is also what is making me go to burning wood instead
Prices of wood & pellets seem to go as fossil fuel prices go. Makes me glad I don't have to pay for wood. I'm actually waiting for LP prices to go sky high again so I can sell some of my wood for a premium as well. ;lol Doesn't make any sense to sell when LP prices are low.

He's not had any pellet issues. Only issues he's had in the past were the amount of ash and how often he had to clean his burners when using the cheaper pellets. Seems that's been solved for a few winters now that he switched to the better pellets. He's definitely paying for that luxury though. He also has newer pellet stoves too.

Pretty much cleaning burn pot every 2 days.
jeez, he cleans his twice a YEAR. He was complaining about having to clean it every few weeks before switching to the pricey pellets. He wouldn't put up with having to clean it every couple days. ;lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: sloeffle

Case1030

Member
Dec 12, 2017
185
Manitoba
Today was the hardest I accidentally ran my tundra.

Went outside to shovel snow and lost track of time.

Was away from home for 16 hours prior so the house was only 58-60f.

The plenum reached up to 210f. Wasn't my intention... forgot the switch was left on the open position. (No different than a thermostat calling for never ending heat) Got flue temps upto 850f internal 1 hour into burn.

I wonder what is the max plenum temp is on these before it kicks the damper closed?

Furnace originally never saw flue temps above 600f. So I guess rest of the paint is cured now lol. House is now a steamy 85f. ;sick

Ouside temp of -12f
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,072
NE Ohio
Today was the hardest I accidentally ran my tundra.

Went outside to shovel snow and lost track of time.

Was away from home for 16 hours prior so the house was only 58-60f.

The plenum reached up to 210f. Wasn't my intention... forgot the switch was left on the open position. (No different than a thermostat calling for never ending heat) Got flue temps upto 850f internal 1 hour into burn.

I wonder what is the max plenum temp is on these before it kicks the damper closed?

Furnace originally never saw flue temps above 600f. So I guess rest of the paint is cured now lol. House is now a steamy 85f. ;sick

Ouside temp of -12f
Why did the temp controller not override "the call for heat?" It should have...
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,138
Wisconsin Dells, WI
Today was the hardest I accidentally ran my tundra.

Went outside to shovel snow and lost track of time.

Was away from home for 16 hours prior so the house was only 58-60f.

The plenum reached up to 210f. Wasn't my intention... forgot the switch was left on the open position. (No different than a thermostat calling for never ending heat) Got flue temps upto 850f internal 1 hour into burn.

I wonder what is the max plenum temp is on these before it kicks the damper closed?

Furnace originally never saw flue temps above 600f. So I guess rest of the paint is cured now lol. House is now a steamy 85f. ;sick

Ouside temp of -12f
:eek:

:)

 
  • Like
Reactions: brenndatomu

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
527
Mass
Today was the hardest I accidentally ran my tundra.

Went outside to shovel snow and lost track of time.

Was away from home for 16 hours prior so the house was only 58-60f.

The plenum reached up to 210f. Wasn't my intention... forgot the switch was left on the open position. (No different than a thermostat calling for never ending heat) Got flue temps upto 850f internal 1 hour into burn.

I wonder what is the max plenum temp is on these before it kicks the damper closed?

Furnace originally never saw flue temps above 600f. So I guess rest of the paint is cured now lol. House is now a steamy 85f. ;sick

Ouside temp of -12f
First... please keep the -12f up in your area, but do please send the snow this way.

600-800 are common flue temps that I see with the FC1500. Might be why every inch of the firebox is now warped. There is not one straight piece of steel anywhere on this unit. Even the holes for the primary air are bloated outwards and this is with the BD set to -0.06” wc.

IMG_1615.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: brenndatomu

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,138
Wisconsin Dells, WI
First... please keep the -12f up in your area, but do please send the snow this way.
It's even going to be -10° tonight and -16° Friday night "down" here. We do need more snow though. I welcome whatever weather that bi-polar b1tch wants to send us, as long as temps stay below 30° or so. 40°+ temps in January and February are just plain wrong. ;lol

Although it was low 20's this morning and it was RAINING on my way in to work. It wasn't freezing rain, it was rain, it would then freeze once it hit whatever surface it landed on forming a nice sheet of ice. WTF. :mad: Looks like it's finally starting to snow now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brenndatomu

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,072
NE Ohio
Even the holes for the primary air are bloated outwards and this is with the BD set to -0.06” wc.
I'm sayin that damage was done when the BD was not being used...or set higher than -0.06"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mrpelletburner

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,072
NE Ohio
Sounds like he left the manual switch set to "open"
Yes, but the temp controller should have overridden it...unless it is not wired that way...I suppose that's a possibility. I had mine set up so it just cut the power to the damper motor...didn't matter where the call for heat was coming from. Did it that way for the "idiot proof" factor...
 

Case1030

Member
Dec 12, 2017
185
Manitoba
Why did the temp controller not override "the call for heat?" It should have...
I used the manual switch. Didnt use the timer or temp controller.
 

Case1030

Member
Dec 12, 2017
185
Manitoba
First... please keep the -12f up in your area, but do please send the snow this way.

600-800 are common flue temps that I see with the FC1500. Might be why every inch of the firebox is now warped. There is not one straight piece of steel anywhere on this unit. Even the holes for the primary air are bloated outwards and this is with the BD set to -0.06” wc.

View attachment 240399
We could still use another foot of powder.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: Mrpelletburner

Boilers

Member
Mar 19, 2018
60
Indiana
Yes, but the temp controller should have overridden it...unless it is not wired that way...I suppose that's a possibility. I had mine set up so it just cut the power to the damper motor...didn't matter where the call for heat was coming from. Did it that way for the "idiot proof" factor...
If he wired his like I did, we just wired a 24vDC signal into the spot for the thermostat. Since the thermostat is really just a relay to tell the damper when to open and provide more heat. This way the manual switch will still override the control system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Case1030

Case1030

Member
Dec 12, 2017
185
Manitoba
Yes, but the temp controller should have overridden it...unless it is not wired that way...I suppose that's a possibility. I had mine set up so it just cut the power to the damper motor...didn't matter where the call for heat was coming from. Did it that way for the "idiot proof" factor...
I'm going to use an ssr to make 3rd alarm to kill the damper motor. 1st for normal burn timer startup (300f on 420f off), 2nd for decoaling in cold weather (rarely have to use), 3rd for flue limiter thinking 600f off 400f on should get heat in the house faster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brenndatomu

Mojappa

Member
Mar 14, 2018
122
Gerrardstown, WV
Today was the hardest I accidentally ran my tundra.

Went outside to shovel snow and lost track of time.

Was away from home for 16 hours prior so the house was only 58-60f.

The plenum reached up to 210f. Wasn't my intention... forgot the switch was left on the open position. (No different than a thermostat calling for never ending heat) Got flue temps upto 850f internal 1 hour into burn.

I wonder what is the max plenum temp is on these before it kicks the damper closed?

Furnace originally never saw flue temps above 600f. So I guess rest of the paint is cured now lol. House is now a steamy 85f. ;sick

Ouside temp of -12f
I bounced my plenum off a hair over 200° last week about 15min after loading it, came back down pretty quickly though. Not sure if the wood was extra dry or if I left too many coals in there (iirc that might have been a time I shoveled some coals out to be able to reload on time). At least the basement was warm after that. Lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: brenndatomu

Case1030

Member
Dec 12, 2017
185
Manitoba
I bounced my plenum off a hair over 200° last week about 15min after loading it, came back down pretty quickly though. Not sure if the wood was extra dry or if I left too many coals in there (iirc that might have been a time I shoveled some coals out to be able to reload on time). At least the basement was warm after that. Lol
When I let the temp controller do its job loading on a large bed of coals just means the damper doesn't open and close as much... quicker to get good secondarys going. After that damper stays closed until next reload. In cold weather I'll have the damper reopen at 240f internal flue to burn off the coals.
 

Gbawol42

New Member
Dec 16, 2018
34
Saint Ignace, MI
I know these furnaces are able to run with no power but do any of you guys run a battery backup on your furnaces?

I have a generator, but it's not automatic so it wouldn't help if I'm at work. Just wondering if I should be looking into a battery backup at all?
 

3fordasho

Minister of Fire
Jul 20, 2007
808
South Central Minnesota
I know these furnaces are able to run with no power but do any of you guys run a battery backup on your furnaces?

I have a generator, but it's not automatic so it wouldn't help if I'm at work. Just wondering if I should be looking into a battery backup at all?
Yes. I'm using a 1000w pure sine inverter with built in charger and transfer switch, a group 27 lead acid deep cycle marine battery will run the furnace for over 6 hours. Should be plenty of time for either the power to come back on or the fire to die down enough that an overheat situation will not occur. The operation is completely automatic, when grid power fails the inverter switches over to battery power in milliseconds. When power is restored it goes back to grid power and charges the battery.
 

Attachments

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,072
NE Ohio
I know these furnaces are able to run with no power but do any of you guys run a battery backup on your furnaces?

I have a generator, but it's not automatic so it wouldn't help if I'm at work. Just wondering if I should be looking into a battery backup at all?
You would need a pretty decent sized UPS to run the blower for long.
A better plan IMO would be to install the ductwork with the clearances and the rise on your runs to be able to dissipate heat by gravity.
Or you could install an emergency heat dump door on the plenum that has a fusible link on it, it will melt at a given temp allowing the door to fall open and dump the heat to the basement. I have a combination of both gravity heating, and once I get things set up how I want them permanently, I will have a heat dump door that will be part of the install...its actually there now, but not really gonna help much where it is now...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gbawol42