Anyone Have a Survival Hybrid from Woodstock Soapstone?

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valuman

Burning Hunk
Mar 11, 2014
161
Vermont
Hi All,
It's been a long time since I've been on here, but I haven't forgotten my experience regarding the expertise this BB brings to the world of woodstoves. I installed a Fireview stove, back in the autumn of 2014 and it's been an absolute dream for us. Truly, it's one of the best major purchases I've ever made.

Now I'm looking for a stove to heat a new shop I'll break ground on in April and am thinking about a lower cost steel stove to heat it, but want the highest efficiency I can get without breaking the bank. Since I'm happy with the Fireview and only an hour from the Woodstock Soapstone factory, I went there to look at their new, 79% EPA efficiency rated Survival Hybrid stoves. Long story short, before I left, I put down a refundable deposit in order to lock in the winter sale pricing and now I'm hoping to find someone on here that's had some (any) experience with this new model. One of my concerns is the small, 1.2 cubic foot firebox on this stove, although it will not be the only heat source. How about it woodstove braintrust? What say you?
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,157
Southern IN
Doesn't look like it puts out a ton of heat. How big is the shop? Well-insulated and air-sealed? High ceiling?
 
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valuman

Burning Hunk
Mar 11, 2014
161
Vermont
The shop and two car garage total just under 1,000 ft2, with a door separating the two spaces and the shop accounting for about 400' of that. Ceilings will be 9 1/2 feet and I'll make the space tight and at least R-19 in the walls. I'm actually more concerned with the small, 1.2 cubic ft firebox on this stove and find myself wondering about the cost of a Blaze King or other stove with more capacity.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,411
central pa
The shop and two car garage total just under 1,000 ft2, with a door separating the two spaces and the shop accounting for about 400' of that. Ceilings will be 9 1/2 feet and I'll make the space tight and at least R-19 in the walls. I'm actually more concerned with the small, 1.2 cubic ft firebox on this stove and find myself wondering about the cost of a Blaze King or other stove with more capacity.
Why go with a cat at all? Why not a simple tube stove that can really crank out some heat? A drolet or Englander would work well. And be aware wood stoves in garages are against code in the US.
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,157
Southern IN
Why go with a cat at all? Why not a simple tube stove that can really crank out some heat? A drolet or Englander would work well. And be aware wood stoves in garages are against code in the US.
Yeah, I'd be inclined to go with a 'value' non-cat there. Even less expensive than the Survival, and cheaper to maintain.
 

valuman

Burning Hunk
Mar 11, 2014
161
Vermont
I like the efficiency of cat stoves. I've never run a tube stove, so have no firsthand information on advantage/disadvantage of that as an option for me.
 

snaple4

Feeling the Heat
Dec 18, 2017
260
AR
Why go with a cat at all? Why not a simple tube stove that can really crank out some heat? A drolet or Englander would work well. And be aware wood stoves in garages are against code in the US.
I was under the impression that as long as it met the hight requirements (like that of a furnace or gas hot water heater) then they are allowed. Obviously each state/municipality could restrict further but didn’t realize a blanket ban was in place per code.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,411
central pa
I like the efficiency of cat stoves. I've never run a tube stove, so have no firsthand information on advantage/disadvantage of that as an option for me.
You are talking about a few percentage points difference in efficiency and that is at the cats max efficiency which is running on low.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,411
central pa
I was under the impression that as long as it met the hight requirements (like that of a furnace or gas hot water heater) then they are allowed. Obviously each state/municipality could restrict further but didn’t realize a blanket ban was in place per code.
Solid fuel burners in garages are without question against code in all of the US.
 

valuman

Burning Hunk
Mar 11, 2014
161
Vermont
You are talking about a few percentage points difference in efficiency and that is at the cats max efficiency which is running on low.
Most cat stoves are running on low most of the time, once they're up to temperature. Also, your thinking doesn't seem to take the particulates into account.
 

valuman

Burning Hunk
Mar 11, 2014
161
Vermont
Solid fuel burners in garages are without question against code in all of the US.
Can you please provide a citation for this statement? I wasn't aware of any federal building codes applying to private structures.
Thanks!
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,411
central pa
Can you please provide a citation for this statement? I wasn't aware of any federal building codes applying to private structures.
Thanks!

It is in nfpa 211. Which in and of itself is not code. It does become code when a state adopts it as part of their fire code. And every state in the US has.
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,157
Southern IN
Most cat stoves are running on low most of the time, once they're up to temperature. Also, your thinking doesn't seem to take the particulates into account.
There doesn't appear to be an appreciable difference anymore; Non-cats burn pretty clean, too. The hybrids are way low in emissions, though, some of them..
We had run only cats but I recently got my SIL the T5 non-cat in my signature. It does seem to be easier to run it dirty, if you try to cut the air too much or something. Once the cat is burning, it pretty much keeps burning until there's no smoke coming off the wood any more.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,479
South Puget Sound, WA
Most cat stoves are running on low most of the time, once they're up to temperature. Also, your thinking doesn't seem to take the particulates into account.
Actually, there are many times when that is not the case. A lot of stoves (cat and non-cat) are run at a higher rate during cold winter days. This is also the case when a stove is used to move the temperature of a space more than just a few degrees. Like when heating up a cabin or shop. Under that circumstance there is little to no advantage.

That said, whether the Survival will be a good fit or not will depend on a lot of factors, like the cu ftg of the shop, how well insulated it is (including floor), how much temp raise is expected in what period of time, etc.. We haven't heard reports on this little stove except what one reads on Woodstock's blog. Personally I'd put in a <$1000 stove and be happy.
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
1,174
Iowa
There is a nice ongoing WS Survival stove review found at another firewood and stove enthusiast site. That owner sounds satisfied. For what its worth!
 

snaple4

Feeling the Heat
Dec 18, 2017
260
AR

It is in nfpa 211. Which in and of itself is not code. It does become code when a state adopts it as part of their fire code. And every state in the US has.
Looked through my state’s Mechanical code and our fuel and gas book. Could not find a section prohibiting installation in a private garage or shop. It would still require 18” up and being protected as any other heat source.

It is possible I missed it but I have read through the book several times over the years and don’t recall a section prohibiting it.
 

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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,411
central pa
Looked through my state’s Mechanical code and our fuel and gas book. Could not find a section prohibiting installation in a private garage or shop. It would still require 18” up and being protected as any other heat source.

It is possible I missed it but I have read through the book several times over the years and don’t recall a section prohibiting it.
Try looking at fire code
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,411
central pa
Nfpa 211 is adopted code in Vermont. It clearly prohibits solid fuel burners in garages.
 

fire_man

Minister of Fire
Feb 6, 2009
2,364
North Eastern MA
I witnessed a demonstraton of a Survival Hybrid at the last Woodstock Barbeque. They had a stove burning with the combustor removed and the lid raised so you could see the heavy smoke exiting the stove.

The combustor was installed and immediately the combustor glowed and there was absolutely no smoke coming out! it was an amazing demonstration showing how effective was the catalyst.
 
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snaple4

Feeling the Heat
Dec 18, 2017
260
AR
12.2.3 and 12.2.4 cover it
Thank you for the reference. Our fire books are at the other shop but I am playing school teacher today. I’ll double check the Arkansas version. When I was studying for my contractors test I used the normal mechanical code book before my Arkansas book arrived. Come to find out I had to start my notes over b/c there were edits and retractions of whole sections.
 

snaple4

Feeling the Heat
Dec 18, 2017
260
AR
As far as OP goes, if you plan to burn 24/7 in the space I would go with a good cat stove. Once the space is up to temp the cat stove will have more flexibility on output. If you will be using it to heat a cold space frequently then a tube stove would be better. Tube stoves have a good high output and will handle being pushed hard better long term.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,411
central pa
Thank you for the reference. Our fire books are at the other shop but I am playing school teacher today. I’ll double check the Arkansas version. When I was studying for my contractors test I used the normal mechanical code book before my Arkansas book arrived. Come to find out I had to start my notes over b/c there were edits and retractions of whole sections.
Yeah in many states there are revisions both adding and removing things. But to my knowledge there aren't and states that alter nfpa 211.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,411
central pa
Thanks for this. I'm off the hook since my installation will be in the shop, not the garage. :)
Simply calling the structure something else doesn't mean your insurance company will honor a claim. And you still can't have gasoline or other flamable vapors in the space.

I am not saying you can't do it. Many people including myself do. But it is against code and you need to understand the repercussions of ignoring that.
 
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