Anyone Have a Survival Hybrid from Woodstock Soapstone?

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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
I will not be removing the wood stove from my shop based on internet advice. I also will not lose sleep fretting that my shop will burn down.
Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't tell you to remove your stove at all. I have a stove in one of my garages. But I do so knowing if I ever had a problem insurance most likely won't pay for it. I am fine with that risk in that case. I provided the applicable codes and it looks like you are probably in violation. What you do with that info is up to you
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,738
South Puget Sound, WA
I clearly don't think so but it's not up to me at all. Although I doubt that restaurant has easy access for a vehicle to drive through those doors.
Actually it does. Used to be a car showroom up to about 60 yrs ago. But I haven't seen a car in there in my time.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,249
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Actually it does. Used to be a car showroom up to about 60 yrs ago. But I haven't seen a car in there in my time.
Overhead doors do not make a building a garage. I think that’s the good point you’re making and it’s a good one.

Myself, my insurance company, and my approved county permit all interpret this fire code differently than bholler. Those people matter more than some guy on the internet. You bet your buns that codes are interpreted all the time!
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
Overhead doors do not make a building a garage. I think that’s the good point you’re making.

Myself, my insurance company, and my approved county permit all interpret this fire code differently than bholler. Those people matter more than some guy on the internet. You bet your buns that codes are interpreted all the time!
Tell me how you "interpret"it to make your install compliant please.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,249
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Tell me how you "interpret"it to make your install compliant please.
Respectfully, since you are certainly allowed your opinion.

We believe that a lot of outbuildings are not garages. A garage is primarily used for storing automobiles and is usually attached to the residential structure.

We believe that the prohibition of “gasoline or other flammable vapors” is not gasoline tanks but gasoline vapors. Just as propane/acetylene tanks are allowed in a building with a solid fuel heater. The key is that these vapors are not released into the space.

Like I said, the people that matter have made their interpretation me in my case. Everybody wanting a wood heater in their case should ask the question of their permitting authority and insurance company.

I think we all agree that this section of code is outdated and should be revised to be more clear and perhaps to match Canada that allows wood stoves in residential garages. Of course I have been told that they also prohibit flammable vapors. Not just farts!
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
By reading the approved county permit.
That doesn't make it code compliant. Read the fine print the inspectors are not responsible for any violations missed in the inspection.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,738
South Puget Sound, WA
Overhead doors do not make a building a garage. I think that’s the good point you’re making and it’s a good one.

Myself, my insurance company, and my approved county permit all interpret this fire code differently than bholler. Those people matter more than some guy on the internet. You bet your buns that codes are interpreted all the time!
They have to be interpreted in many cases. Codes can't possibly cover all the variations in construction and design. They are generalized to cover the most known cases. A minor violation of code doesn't necessarily mean a lack of coverage. What's important to know is that insurance adjusters and lawyers may do their best to find a chink in the armor to convince the court and/or jury of an intentional infraction if possible. This is what is being warned about, so just be sure that the coverage has specifics in writing for the exemption or exception. Don't trust verbal assurances.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
Respectfully, since you are certainly allowed your opinion.

We believe that a lot of outbuildings are not garages. A garage is primarily used for storing automobiles and is usually attached to the residential structure.

We believe that the prohibition of “gasoline or other flammable vapors” is not gasoline tanks but gasoline vapors. Just as propane/acetylene tanks are allowed in a building with a solid fuel heater. The key is that these vapors are not released into the space.

Like I said, the people that matter have made their interpretation me in my case. Everybody wanting a wood heater in their case should ask the question of their permitting authority and insurance company.

I think we all agree that this section of code is outdated and should be revised to be more clear and perhaps to match Canada that allows wood stoves in residential garages. Of course I have been told that they also prohibit flammable vapors. Not just farts!
Good luck convincing an adjuster of that if it ever comes to that (which I sincerely hope it doesn't) And I agree completely about the code being stupid.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
They have to be interpreted in many cases. Codes can't possibly cover all the variations in construction and design. They are generalized to cover the most known cases. A minor violation of code doesn't necessarily mean a lack of coverage. What's important to know is that insurance adjusters and lawyers may do their best to find a chink in the armor to convince the court and/or jury of an intentional infraction if possible. This is what is being warned about, so just be sure that the coverage has specifics in writing for the exemption or exception. Don't trust verbal assurances.
Well said
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,249
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Thanks guys. One thing, this isn’t an exemption or exception if it is allowed by code as interpreted by the permitting authority, insurance, etc. It is permitted outright.

The county permit documents the wood stove’s presence and the building official’s approval documents their interpretation of the code.

I don’t go seeking a written exemption to have a stove in my home.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
Thanks guys. One thing, this isn’t an exemption or exception if it is allowed by code as interpreted by the permitting authority, insurance, etc. It is permitted outright.

The county permit documents the wood stove’s presence and the building official’s approval documents their interpretation of the code.

I don’t go seeking a written exemption to have a stove in my home.
A stove in your home isn't prohibited by code. A stove is your "shop" which is used to work on and store equipment is regardless of what you call it. If your inspector gave you a written varience allowing it then any liability falls on him. If he just approved it without a specific varience any liability falls on the installer.

Again I don't care if anyone installs a stove in their garage or what ever you want to call it. I just want to let people know what the code actually is.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,249
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
A stove in your home isn't prohibited by code. A stove is your "shop" which is used to work on and store equipment is regardless of what you call it. If your inspector gave you a written varience allowing it then any liability falls on him. If he just approved it without a specific varience any liability falls on the installer.

Again I don't care if anyone installs a stove in their garage or what ever you want to call it. I just want to let people know what the code actually is.
Again, the code you reference has been interpreted by me, my insurance company, and my permitting authority to allow a wood stove in my shop.

Some guy on the internet is allowed to think whatever he wants.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
Again, the code you reference has been interpreted by me, my insurance company, and my permitting authority to allow a wood stove in my shop.

Some guy on the internet is allowed to think whatever he wants.
Did you show your insurance company and ahj the code prohibiting installs like yours so they knew what they were agreeing to? Does your policy specifically state that the stove in your "shop" and any consequential damage involved with the stove is covered?

The fact that those involved didn't know the code doesn't mean they agreed to anything. And I am pretty sure that discussion never happened because the first time I mentioned it to you you had no clue such a code existed. After I showed you the code you switched to the current argument that it is a difference of interpretation.
 

woodnomore

Member
Oct 3, 2019
218
Central MN
Did you show your insurance company and ahj the code prohibiting installs like yours so they knew what they were agreeing to? Does your policy specifically state that the stove in your "shop" and any consequential damage involved with the stove is covered?

The fact that those involved didn't know the code doesn't mean they agreed to anything. And I am pretty sure that discussion never happened because the first time I mentioned it to you you had no clue such a code existed. After I showed you the code you switched to the current argument that it is a difference of interpretation.
You are taking this far too personally and pretty much calling the guy a liar, you don't need the last word on this. Watch your own bobber.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
You are taking this far too personally and pretty much calling the guy a liar, you don't need the last word on this. Watch your own bobber.
I have been through this with him many times before. I am not taking it personally at all. I just like to make sure people understand how things like this work. Just because something passes inspection doesn't mean it meets code.

I also am not calling him a liar. Just pointing out inconsistencies in his argument.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,249
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
You’re the moderator bholler. It’s hardly a fair discussion.

I’ve been very consistent with why I think all of the important people and actual experts approved my installation. Plus, I’m not worried about changing your mind. You’re allowed to have your interpretation too.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
You’re the moderator bholler. It’s hardly a fair discussion.

I’ve been very consistent with why I think all of the important people and actual experts approved my installation. Plus, I’m not worried about changing your mind. You’re allowed to have your interpretation too.
What isn't fair? And yes after I informed you of the code you have been consistent. You started out saying the code didn't exist.
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
So....what was this thread about to begin with?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,738
South Puget Sound, WA
@valuman have you been following this thread?
 
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valuman

Burning Hunk
Mar 11, 2014
161
Vermont
@valuman have you been following this thread?
Yes, and I'm trying to glean something helpful from it, which is what I remember this BB being all about...
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,160
Southern IN
I'm trying to glean something helpful from it, which is what I remember this BB being all about...
Just look at how much you've gleaned from this thread alone, regarding how to tip-toe around the code. ==c
 
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