Avalon Olympic Troubles...

[TCT1971]

Another question! You can see I'm beginning to realize that winter is just around the corner!

We have an Avalon Olympic insert in our living room. We inherited it when we bought the house 2 years ago, so we're not really sure of its age. Everything seems to work alright (all parts intact, anyway), but it's certainly not new & shiny looking.

The problem is that it just doesn't put out any heat! Well, not much, anyway. It's our first insert, so we're not sure if that just comes with the territory, or if there's something wrong. You really have to pull up a chair right next to the hearth to feel at all warm. It actually gets warmer in the room if we just leave the door open! But I don't want to do that too often, of course. Putting the blower on helps a tiny bit, but not much. And it's all loud & rattly, so we don't use the blower very often. We took it apart and cleaned it, but it's still super noisy. I'm wondering if we need to replace the fan mechanism. But even without the fan, it seems like we should be getting a lot more heat than we do.

And forget ever getting an overnight burn. I often wake up at 3am, and it's already totally out. I keep it burning hot enough during the day to keep the glass fairly clear, but every night the glass gets all yucky as the fire goes out after we go to bed.

Is there anything we can do to improve the efficiency and output of the insert?

We have a VT Castings Defiant in our downstairs, basement level, and it really cranks out the heat. But the warmth just doesn't make it up to the main level. So we really need the Olympic to do its job a whole lot better. It's going to be another cold one this year, and I'm tired of freezing all winter!

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

It should do better than that. Take out the blower and give it a very good cleaning paying close attention to the fan blades. Too much buildup can throw the fan out of balance. Lots of questions for you:

How is the insert connected to the chimney? Is there a liner? How tall is the flue or liner on the Olympic? Does it get cleaned annually? How well seasoned is your wood supply? How large a house is this?

PS: Where is the combifire located?

 

[fossil]

An insert without a functioning blower is seriously disadvantaged. The questions BG asked above are important, as is whether or not the installation includes a block-off plate above the insert to close off everything surrounding the flue being used by the insert. In the absence of a blower and a block-off plate, you're gonna lose a very large amount of heat right up the chimney to daylight.

 

[begreen]

With all these stoves going I think I might look at getting an EPA wood furnace in place of the Defiant if that is practical. Feeding 3-4 stoves all season would get old for me by early November.

 

[TCT1971]

It should do better than that. Take out the blower and give it a very good cleaning paying close attention to the fan blades. Too much buildup can throw the fan out of balance. Lots of questions for you:

How is the insert connected to the chimney? Is there a liner? How tall is the flue or liner on the Olympic? Does it get cleaned annually? How well seasoned is your wood supply? How large a house is this?

PS: Where is the combifire located?

Thanks! Great questions...I'm sorry to say that I don't know the answers to all of them, but I'll give it a whirl...

Both the downstairs stove and the upstairs insert vent into the brick chimney. I know that there is definitely a liner, but I don't know how tall it is. I'll have to ask our chimney sweep when he comes in a few weeks.

We did have it all cleaned last summer and intend to do the same this autumn. No idea how well the previous owners cleaned & maintained.

Wood has definitely not been as seasoned as I'd like. Will be a bit better this year, but we haven't even been in the house for 2 years yet, and we had to start from scratch with our wood supply. Firewood guy claimed it was seasoned, but I was skeptical, and we were new to the area, so maybe a little too trusting...trying someone new this year, and I've still got almost 3 cords here that should be decent by now, so that's a start. Hope to build a larger wood shed next year and be able to really stock up and season. It's all a work in progress.

The house is 2900 sq feet overall, but the main level and the basement level are fairly separate. So I rely on the VC Defiant to heat the basement level, and would like to be able to rely on the Avalon to heat the main level, but it just doesn't happen, and the oil backup kicks in way too often. I'd be happy if the Avalon would just heat the open plan living/dining/kitchen area, which is about 620 sq ft. And then the little stove that we're looking to put in the solarium could take care of the back rooms on the main floor. But there are high cathedral ceilings in the living room, so maybe I'm just expecting too much. And we know that our windows aren't the most energy efficient, so that project is on the list, too, but won't be happening before this winter.

Gosh, I have no idea about a block-off plate. Like I said, it's our first insert, and I guess we've got quite a lot to learn. Maybe I can ask our chimney sweep about that one, too. We love our house, but are finding that we have inherited quite a few inefficiencies that we're attempting to remedy over time, and I'm getting the feeling that this is going to be one of them...

Oh, and the combifire isn't in the house...it's out in the yurt in the woods! Or it will be anyway when we actually get around to installing it some time this autumn

 

[Tenn Dave]

Unseasoned wood is probably a big part of your problem. A lot of the heat from the fire is used to drive the mositure out of the wood.

 

[begreen]

Check with the sweep to assert that each stove is on its own flue. Ask the sweep if the Avalon has its own separate liner and what size it is. You can check to see if there is a block-off plate at the damper by temporarily removing the surround and following the stove liner upward through the damper. Sometimes a mirror helps here. If the liner just snakes up through the damper with nothing surrounding it but air, then there is no block off plate. If this is an exterior chimney then that could be cooling down the stove. For sure poor wood will negatively affect the stove performance. It is best to buy at least a season ahead because as you have found out, it is rare to get seasoned wood, no matter what the claims of the seller are.

 

[webby3650]

Even if it has no block off plate, it should be doing much, much better than it is. If you have a liner, just get some seasoned wood for starters. Replace the blower, buy some bagged wood from the store. The blower will cost about $275 if I remember right, it's essential to an insert! But, if you don't have a Stainless Steel liner all the way to the top thats sealed at the top, then do this before anything else.

This is a good stove, something is missing here.

 

[firefighterjake]

Telling us how you burn might also be helpful . . . not saying this is you . . . but a lot of folks assume that opening the air control all the way will result in more heat (especially since you will often see lots of flames), but in reality a lot of that heat is going right up the flue and you're not getting the secondary burn with even more heat . . . this also results in shortened burn times.

 

[dave_376]

I have an Avalon 1196, older pre Olympic stove that is slightly smaller, it heated my 2400 sqft last winter. I had 8 hour burn times without any problems, I rarely had to relight the stove between loads.
Read the manual (broken link removed) print and save a copy for reference.
Check to see that the bypass damper is installed correctly, It needs to have full range of motion to open and close, it can be installed 180 degrees backwards and not open enough. and the firebricks are above the air tubes with no open spaces.
My fan is loud also, I used my air compressor to blow it clean and fiddled with the position of it under the stove and it quieted down a lot since most of the noise was rattles.

1. open bypass damper, pull forward.
2 push air control in.
3 load some wood and kindling and start a fire.
4. when fire is really going and stove warms up, push bypass closed. I have a thermometer on the stove top, when it gets 250F I push it closed.
5 wait 10-20 minutes and adjust the air control, generally I pull it almost completely closed. on a few loads of silver maple last year I had to pull it all the way out because it was burning really hot.
6. turn on fan. If its a newer stove it has a thermostat (snap disk) to turn the fan on and off automatically when its hot enough.

A big help for me was when I figured out I needed 16" wood and load it N/S. I could get more wood in the stove with better burns.

 

[begreen]

Good info. Thanks for the helpful post.

 

[TCT1971]

Thanks, everyone!

I totally agree that we still do not have the hang of the air control on this thing...it doesn't seem to behave in quite the same way as the stoves I've had in the past, which were comparatively easy. It seems rather finicky! I open up the air control to get it started, and then once it's really going, I close it most of the way to sustain, as I was accustomed to. But within minutes of closing it (or less), it gets all wimpy and goes out, and won't get going again unless I crack the door open a little. I've tried the control at all stages of open & closed & it seems like the only way that the fire won't go out is completely open, which I know is totally inefficient. It's been so "high need" compared to the Defiant or other stoves I've experienced. So I do think some of the problem is indeed our own fault & frustration with an unfamiliar product. I wish I knew exactly how old it was and could access the appropriate manual. But perhaps even a contemporary manual would help.

We called the sweep first thing this morning & bumped up our appointment, so that we can get some answers to these questions and determine what else we need to do. The only thing I've been able to find out so far is that there are definitely 2 separate flues for the insert and the Defiant--I remembered that we needed to get that information for our homeowner's insurance policy back when we bought the house. But I'll have to wait for the sweep to find out the details about the liner.

Thanks again for all of the help!

 

[begreen]

If the stove is properly connected to a 15' or higher liner, the odds are the problem is damp wood.

 

[TCT1971]

I have an Avalon 1196, older pre Olympic stove that is slightly smaller, it heated my 2400 sqft last winter. I had 8 hour burn times without any problems, I rarely had to relight the stove between loads.
Read the manual (broken link removed) print and save a copy for reference.
Check to see that the bypass damper is installed correctly, It needs to have full range of motion to open and close, it can be installed 180 degrees backwards and not open enough. and the firebricks are above the air tubes with no open spaces.
My fan is loud also, I used my air compressor to blow it clean and fiddled with the position of it under the stove and it quieted down a lot since most of the noise was rattles.

1. open bypass damper, pull forward.
2 push air control in.
3 load some wood and kindling and start a fire.
4. when fire is really going and stove warms up, push bypass closed. I have a thermometer on the stove top, when it gets 250F I push it closed.
5 wait 10-20 minutes and adjust the air control, generally I pull it almost completely closed. on a few loads of silver maple last year I had to pull it all the way out because it was burning really hot.
6. turn on fan. If its a newer stove it has a thermostat (snap disk) to turn the fan on and off automatically when its hot enough.

A big help for me was when I figured out I needed 16" wood and load it N/S. I could get more wood in the stove with better burns.

Thanks, Dave! Hugely helpful. I will download that manual now and check the installation. Yes, the rattling is incessant! I will clean it again even more thoroughly and try fiddling with the position. I'm confident that with all of this new info, we won't freeze this coming winter!

 

[dave_376]

It sounds like the wood is wet, and you are closing it down too soon. Get the stove hot, pay less attention to the flames and more to the heat.

 

[TCT1971]

If the stove is properly connected to a 15' or higher liner, the odds are the problem is damp wood.

Thanks. I guess this fall will be the first really good test, then. I now have 3 cords of dry wood that have been sitting around for 2 seasons, so we'll see how it goes!

 

[mellow]

Check out the link in my signature if you have an exterior chimney, an insulated fireplace with a block off will help as well to push the heat out.

 

[TCT1971]

Check out the link in my signature if you have an exterior chimney, an insulated fireplace with a block off will help as well to push the heat out.

Excellent. It is indeed an exterior chimney!

 

[robertmcw]

I have a Avalon Olympic 1190 and the house has about 1200 sq ft and it keeps us toasty. You still all more wood when we go to bed (10:30) and I still need wood at 3:00 am to keep the please warm. If you put a really lot of dry wood, IT WILL RED LINE IT. Ask my how I know. I have using it for 3 years and I have found it is better to keep the temps in the 450 - 500 on the top and keep adding wood and forget an over night burn.

 

[jophysx]

It's not the wood. He's getting plenty of heat out of his Defiant, presumably using the same wood. The problem must be something particular to the Avalon and its install. I am assuming that because you apparently get good heat and burn times out of your Defiant, that you know how to properly operate a wood stove. The trouble maintaining a good burn makes me think of a draft issue. Sounds like the status of the liner is still not clear. Are you sure you have a liner that goes all the way to the top of the chimney, and not just a short section of piping connecting into an open flue (i.e. a "slammer install")?

Assuming you have a liner to the top of the chimney, is it blocked off at the top, so that the heat from the exhaust can warm up the air space in the flue and help keep the liner warm? Is it an insulated liner?