BK Ashford 30 Install

ValleyCottageSplitter Posted By ValleyCottageSplitter, Dec 1, 2018 at 11:16 PM

  1. moresnow

    moresnow
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    Jan 13, 2015
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    Ask BK about the OAK. I would think very possibly it could be a advantage in your situation to reduce/eliminate any competition for makeup air in a questionable draft situation. Maybe?

    Do you get the creo smell without the fans running?

    When you damp down are you going down just enough to extinguish flame? Starting with this (just below active flame) setting would be a good place to start for figuring your setup/configurations sweet spot (no stink/slow burn).

    Can you pull the probe and cover/seal the hole after getting up to cruising temp/setting? Might eliminate that spot as your smell producer. Easy test perhaps?

    I have had the best performance (smell free) by engaging the cat when appropriate according to the probe and running with the stat wide open for up to a half hour before turning it down just below active flame (3:30 position for my setup/draw, roughly). It looks like a waste of fuel while burning wide open but really does not seem to be. Tough to be disciplined enough to watch it burn hot for up to a half hour! Good for your pipe cleanliness/health and also for setting up the fresh load for a low burn. If very cold I can turn it down a bit more (3:00 maybe a tic less) to reduce the speed of my burn/wood melt! Any setting less than 2:45 will produce the smell and begin to stall my cat. All my setup can handle.

    The last thing that really affected my setup for producing the smell is wet fuel. Mostly if trying to run low/slow to quickly on wet fuel. Nasty!

    Your setup will require a custom procedure/setting that does not mirror anyone else's exactly. Something we all learn over time. Apologize if I am reiterating procedures/ideas you have already tried. Don't give up. This is likely a procedural issue you can work through. Good luck!
     
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  2. Ludlow

    Ludlow
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    Smoke filled our place for hours the first burn. I decided to take it up to nearly 700 STT to get it over with. This picture actually doesnt even show how bad it really was. But it is over with at least!

    smoke.jpg
     
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  3. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Dec 11, 2016
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    That sounds pretty similar to my situation. Around the 3:30 is where I'm trying to run overnight. But I get smell everytime. It's always warmed up beforehand for an hour or two on high. Last night I ran at 4:30 setting and there was very little (also 20 degrees out). I don't always have big logs that can last that long. It seems better for me if I warm the flue and then on the overnight load I turn it down earlier and let itself slowly damp the air. If its fully ignited, hot and try to turn down it will smoke hard.

    The current supply is 2yr seasoned ash. It was 20% last winter.

    I'm wondering if everyone gets this creosote smell at some setting or if that's particular to poor draft setups?
     
  4. moresnow

    moresnow
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    Sounds like your getting it figured out. Your wood quality sounds nice.

    The creo smell does not sound like a widespread issue. I helped put in 2 Princess models for buddies in the last couple years. Zero creo smell issues. One is a basement install with a through wall vent like yours, that can be finicky to start cold. He has no creo smell however.

    I just reloaded and turned mine down at the 20 minute mark. YMMV on the hot burn time requirement. Whatever works best!

    Did you? Or can you add more pipe up top easily? Maybe the 2- 90's and 15* offsets are limiting draft at your place . Anything is possible.
     
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  5. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover
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    From what I've read here about the 30, the better the draft, the less likely it is to be an issue. Obviously, straight up with no turns, and chimney inside the house where it stays warmer, is going to provide the best draft. That said, it's quite possible that when you put on the extra 3' of chimney, that may get you 'over the top.' Did you at any point consider keeping the chimney inside, and going through the roof?
     
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  6. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Yes, I did search for an interior chimney solution. There is no spot where the pipe can run through without horribly disrupting the rooms. Above this now is the master bed. It would have a very inconvenient position in the room with the pipe running through.

    I can easily add more pipe to the top, that is the plan. The downside is that it will have an increasingly awkward appearance to the outside of our modern suburban house. Right now it is sticking up 6' above the roofline on the frontside of the house.

    The 90, tee and 15's are definitely limiting the draft. The BK manual calls for 25ft vertical rise with this setup while I'm currently at 22ft. So I'll see how it runs when I return in town next year and add the 3ft.
     
  7. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Dec 11, 2016
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    I'm almost done curing the stove too which will make it easier to load up. It's hard to keep it hot! I got it almost up to the max cat probe mark but it eats through wood so quickly! I kept it there about 30 minutes and 4 new logs would get to coals in about 15min. Probably one more day and the paint smell should be gone.

    It looks like my "safe" setting is about 4:30 which keeps it about the start of high with a full load. It's enough to last the night but it's a little hotter than needed for nighttime downstairs.

    My new chimney pipe came in dent free so I'm hoping that will let me lower the min setting to 3:00 or lower, smoke free.
     
  8. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
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    Nov 18, 2013
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    Hopefully you can get it corrected without much issue. My last stove was an EPA non-cat insert installed in an exterior masonry chimney with an insulated 6” SS liner. The liner was straight but only had 13ft. I had draft issues until it go 40 or below. Didn’t get really good draft until very low 30s or lower. I just had to deal with it.

    Now I am in a different place with a free standing cat stove. 8” pipe straight up, not a single bend for 25ft. Draft is wicked to the point of low and slow not being an option. Had to end up installing a pipe damper.

    To much draft seems to be easier to deal with than not enough.
     
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  9. ratsrepus

    ratsrepus
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    Your set up pretty much like Iam. I have about 20 ft vertical chimney, you can see the 45's. I have no draft issues what so ever. I exit the roof right at the peak, fact is I had to get a peak flashing when I did the install. Id like a better draft like I have in the shop, Im straight up, no bends, but its sufficient.
     
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  10. ratsrepus

    ratsrepus
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    sorry I meant to post a pic 20180602_130021.jpg
     
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  11. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    That looks nice. How much horiz run do you have? The interior 45s and int chimney w/o any 15° elbows probably helps a lot. Do you have 20ft+ 3ft above the stove? That seems like you are at or above the recommended equivalent 15ft.
     
  12. ratsrepus

    ratsrepus
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    I think Im 18 ft total from the Tee givge or take a foot. Thats what I needed,
     
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  13. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Dec 11, 2016
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    Ugh. Well my wife didn't want me to climb up on the roof to install the extra 3ft. It's 35°F and the stove just kind of stalled and puffed at 4:30 position which previously I thought was safe. It's been about 78-80°F inside today trying to keep it running at about 5:00 or higher. My wife is enjoying the temperature at least...
     
  14. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover
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    She will probably leave soon... ;)
     
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  15. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Dec 11, 2016
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    Man, more issues. It's been running nicely this whole week. Especially since I'm onto my Norway maple stock seems to be lasting longer.

    This morning I loaded about 30lbs of maple and went upstairs with the bypass open waiting for the lightoff. My wife came bursting in while I was in the shower and a lot of the house was filled with some new chemical/smoke type smell. The stove was just at medium temp by then.

    I ended up closing the bypass and turning down the stove to "4 O clock", our minimum. Still after 30min or so it had reached close to the top of high which is unusual. As the flames slowed down the smell slowly improved.

    Anyone know what's wrong? This is super frustrating and ruining our confidence in the stove.

    This is what I was guessing:
    -Door gasket leak (have not adjusted yet)
    -Backpuffing due to low draft and wind during startup
    -Other stove leak/exhaust

    Might give BK cs a call later today...
     
  16. vwmike

    vwmike
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    Was it a actually smoke or just smell? Could be the paint on the pipe or stove still settling in. I was surprised how long after I would still get some smell when I got the pipe up to a high temp.
     
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  17. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Dec 11, 2016
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    Definitely not pipe curing. I've been loading it all this week exactly the same way (and about 2 weeks before that). It smelled different too and was very strong. It started 5 or so minutes after the lightoff. We used to get pipe smell about 15 or 20 minutes on a high burn but it went away the first week.
     
  18. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover
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    The term "light-off" that you see on the forum refers to when the stove is up to temp, and you close the bypass; Then the combustor "lights off"...starts to burn the smoke, in other words.
    So you lit a new load, then left the room? :oops: Was the air wide open? How long was it going to be before you planned to get back to check the stove?
    I stay within sight of the stove after a reload, until the stove is up to temp, bypass is closed, cat is lit and air has been reduced to my cruise setting. I mainly use my flue temp meter as I ramp the stove up to temp, along with frequent looks inside the fire box at the flue exit to see how much flame is going into the pipe. My aim is to keep the fire under control so that I don't overheat stove parts near the flue exit, or the pipe. I also have a stove top meter and cat meter, but the flue meter gives me the immediate feedback on what is currently happening in the box.
    As soon as I see the new load catching and sending flame toward the flue exit, I start cutting the air in small steps until it's just 1/2 open, or a little more. I never want to see big flames exiting the fire box into the pipe.
    The reason you have to stay on top of the burn when ramping up the stove is that no two loads will start the same. Variables include the type of wood (softer woods catch quickly, dense woods more slowly) how dry the wood is, how you packed the load, how cold it is outside which affects draft, and so on. Therefore it's not possible to just set the air at a particular level and expect the stove temp to increase at the same rate over a given length of time.
    I'd be willing to bet that you either smelled paint burning, or that you didn't thoroughly warm the flue sufficiently with your outside chimney before you walked away and it wasn't drawing well, and smoke escaped into the house.
    The "chemical smell" may have been creo burning off the inside of the fire box with the new fire, but that doesn't seem likely if you had low draft...the fire wouldn't be hot enough to start burning creo off the box.
    As for the higher temp (I assume you are talking cat probe temp,) maybe you had more wood burning by the time you turned it down (although this wouldn't happen if draft was weak.) Or the Norway Maple is burning differently.
    Hang in there; Many folks don't know much about stoves when they buy their new BKs but they quickly learn once they start burning. You have to experiment and learn how the variables interplay.
    BTW, did you get the extra 3' of chimney up there yet?
     
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  19. ratsrepus

    ratsrepus
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    you will damage your stove if run very hot with the by pass open. baby sit the thing till its closed. Im sure it was a paint smell. I'm going to enroll you in blaze king school
     
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  20. Ludlow

    Ludlow
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    I'd feel like the fun has been sucked out at this point.
     
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  21. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Dec 11, 2016
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    I mean guys. I can barely turn down the air setting without stalling the cat because of draft. I warm the flue up for 15-20 minutes before I touch the air setting. The cat temp was about 2/3 of the low range. The flue was at great temp and the draft was great while reloading.

    It's the exact same procedure I've been using except the bypass was open for about 10min. We've done that once or twice already and have not had that problem. I've done several curing cycles running on high. Not sure how I could have suddenly have a huge plume of paint fumes running a typical load.

    The temp always peaks out from the thermostat at the start of high. It was way higher than any load I've put in there at our 3/4 or 4:30 air setting. That includes many full loads with smaller logs.

    And sorry, I mean flames lighting up, not cat lighting off.
     
  22. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Dec 11, 2016
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    I called BK and BKVP answered. Really nice and helpful. His immediate thought is a clogged spark arrestor. I should remove it completely.

    I just did a dollar bill test and it fails easily in the top right corner. That's kind of what it seemed like. There could have been some leaking around the door seal of some smoke.

    So I will readjust that, inspect the chimney and if the spark arrestor doesn't fix it I'll add the 3ft extension.
     
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  23. AlbergSteve

    AlbergSteve
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    If it's not required by code, remove it.
     
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  24. bholler

    bholler
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    Is it a spark arrestor or just an animal screen?
     
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  25. ValleyCottageSplitter

    ValleyCottageSplitter
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    Dec 11, 2016
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    Good question. Maybe just an animal screen. I can definitely tell the screen is black, don't know if it is clogged and pretty sure it can be removed.

    Pic is from the install.
     

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