BK Ashford or Princess

[Heftiger]

Hi all!

We just purchased a new house this summer and I had to leave me BK King behind. This new house has a pellet stove, and we gave it a chance. It's been nothing but problems and still isn't keeping the house as warm as we like it.

The house originally had a wood stove, so it has a 6" flue from ceiling up. With that in mind, we were thinking of purchasing another Bk. The 6" flue size lends itself to the Princess, or the much more aesthetically pleasing Ashford 30. Does anybody have any experience with the Ashford? I'm a little afraid that it's not going to operate as expected, since I'm used to the King. I've done a lot of searching and people seem to like it. One poster said something to the tune of "the Ashford is more of a convective stove than radiant". I'm not sure how that could be said about a wood stove.

I'd just really appreciate some feedback from somebody who is running one, especially if you have prior experience with a King or Princess.

Thanks!

 

[kennyp2339]

I think the princess and ashford run pretty much the same (top end heat wise), the draw backs are looks, you could have trophy hot blonde ashford or the princess with her wide hips and bigger belly. The princess cancels out the looks with a deeper belly that can hold more wood or ash, when I first installed my princess I thought I made a mistake because I was judging her by looks, well she grew on me and man, what a work horse, she's like my little fat girl with a deep belly that holds her own.

 

[Heftiger]

Haha! Thanks for the input. The price difference is negligible for us (less than $300). I did read about the difference in the depth of the pan. The firebox is about the same size, so the box must sit lower in the princess allowing for the deeper box. I'm not sure whether or not this is an issue.

 

[Highbeam]

Haha! Thanks for the input. The price difference is negligible for us (less than $300). I did read about the difference in the depth of the pan. The firebox is about the same size, so the box must sit lower in the princess allowing for the deeper box. I'm not sure whether or not this is an issue.

It's a pretty big issue. To be clear, the actual firebox where you load wood has a bottom 6" below the loading door. That's not the ash "pan". The ash pan on the ultra model princess is also at least 6" deep but still suffers from being smaller than a full belly load of ashes.

The ashford has a different firebox. It is about the same size but it is cleaner burning due to some tweaks. Not as efficient though. Same burn times.

Both great stoves but both are best suited for smaller homes. How large is the space?

 

[Heftiger]

It's a pretty big issue. To be clear, the actual firebox where you load wood has a bottom 6" below the loading door. That's not the ash "pan". The ash pan on the ultra model princess is also at least 6" deep but still suffers from being smaller than a full belly load of ashes.

The ashford has a different firebox. It is about the same size but it is cleaner burning due to some tweaks. Not as efficient though. Same burn times.

Both great stoves but both are best suited for smaller homes. How large is the space?

The home is about 2200 sq ft, although some of that is an upstairs that we don't expect to heat with the stove because of the way it's split. The main living area where the stove will be located is roughly 1550 sq ft. This is about the same size as our previous home that had the King. We ran the King on low most of the time with our old home, I assume we'll do the same, or maybe run it just a little higher with a Princess or Ashford. In turn, we'll get shorter burn times. We burn mostly pine up here, so we don't see burn times nearly as long as those advertised.

Are you saying with your explanation that even though the firebox size is roughly the same, you can fit more wood in the Princess because of the extra 6" ? If that's true, why are the burn times advertised as the same? I went and saw both of these stoves in the store the other day (90 minute drive), but the Princess was burning so I wasn't able to inspect the firebox as well as I would like.

 

[Highbeam]

The home is about 2200 sq ft, although some of that is an upstairs that we don't expect to heat with the stove because of the way it's split. The main living area where the stove will be located is roughly 1550 sq ft. This is about the same size as our previous home that had the King. We ran the King on low most of the time with our old home, I assume we'll do the same, or maybe run it just a little higher with a Princess or Ashford. In turn, we'll get shorter burn times. We burn mostly pine up here, so we don't see burn times nearly as long as those advertised.

Are you saying with your explanation that even though the firebox size is roughly the same, you can fit more wood in the Princess because of the extra 6" ? If that's true, why are the burn times advertised as the same? I went and saw both of these stoves in the store the other day (90 minute drive), but the Princess was burning so I wasn't able to inspect the firebox as well as I would like.

In Northern CA, the 2200 seems reasonable to heat with the 30 sized box assuming reasonable ceiling height and insulation. Your burn times will of course be lower than the king but I'd bet they are still close to the 30 hours most of the year. I too run on low for 90% of the time to heat 1700 SF of 1963 rambler.

The firebox volume is the same, same wood load for each, but the shape is different. More of the firebox is located below the loading door on the princess. They will both get the same burn time.

Dry pine is fine. I can easily accomplish the rated burn time with our PNW softwoods like red alder, red cedar, doug fir, bigleaf maple, etc. We don't get much pine but it is not a problem.

Whatever you do, don't be fooled into buying a 20 series BK. That's the small one. It has a way shorter burn time and at low it actually puts out more heat than the 30 box.

 

[Heftiger]

In Northern CA, the 2200 seems reasonable to heat with the 30 sized box assuming reasonable ceiling height and insulation. Your burn times will of course be lower than the king but I'd bet they are still close to the 30 hours most of the year. I too run on low for 90% of the time to heat 1700 SF of 1963 rambler.

The firebox volume is the same, same wood load for each, but the shape is different. More of the firebox is located below the loading door on the princess. They will both get the same burn time.

Dry pine is fine. I can easily accomplish the rated burn time with our PNW softwoods like red alder, red cedar, doug fir, bigleaf maple, etc. We don't get much pine but it is not a problem.

Whatever you do, don't be fooled into buying a 20 series BK. That's the small one. It has a way shorter burn time and at low it actually puts out more heat than the 30 box.

Thanks for your input. The home is a 1987 custom built; I believe the insulation to be decent. I'm not sure how it compares to my previous 2000's era builder grade home. I can say for sure that the Bosca pellet stove that we're replacing is not putting out anywhere near the BTU that it claims; I'm confident in Blaze King's ability to perform.

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks for your input. The home is a 1987 custom built; I believe the insulation to be decent. I'm not sure how it compares to my previous 2000's era builder grade home. I can say for sure that the Bosca pellet stove that we're replacing is not putting out anywhere near the BTU that it claims; I'm confident in Blaze King's ability to perform.

I'm a big fan of my BK for primary home heating. The dang thing just sits there and makes 100% of our heat. It's not a big, lively, fireplace fire but it is very easy to use and the long burn times are extremely valuable for those of us that are away from the house all day or want to sleep all night without a second thought about the stove going cold. If I was in your shoes, I would buy the princess if it fits with your décor. You've had time with a king for that look to grow on you and the ashford guys still pop up with some smoke issues from time to time, the ash belly, more history. You can't go wrong with either.

I also burn a non-cat in the shop and it has taught me to appreciate the thermostatic control of a woodburner. I have to fiddle with that air control several times during the short burntime of that big stove. Set and forget for 30 hours? I wish I could add it to the shop stove.

 

[Calentarse]

The Ashford is a great stove. It sounds like you would like it and it would heat your house nicely throughout the year. I think you read my comment about the convective/radiant heat so I'll offer a little explanation as I did not see where anyone else had...

I had a dealer tell me that they usually sell their BKs with blowers as the Ashford does not radiate heat like a solid cast iron stove. You are coming from a BK King so I don't know if those have cast iron "jackets" wrapped around them or not...the Ashford radiates heat out the front glass and off the top when it's hot, but otherwise doesn't radiate much heat outward. Most all the heat goes up in my experience because the cast iron jacket blocks it. I think this is a good thing because it works well with clearances and doesn't run you out of the stove room.

 

[Heftiger]

The Ashford is a great stove. It sounds like you would like it and it would heat your house nicely throughout the year. I think you read my comment about the convective/radiant heat so I'll offer a little explanation as I did not see where anyone else had...

I had a dealer tell me that they usually sell their BKs with blowers as the Ashford does not radiate heat like a solid cast iron stove. You are coming from a BK King so I don't know if those have cast iron "jackets" wrapped around them or not...the Ashford radiates heat out the front glass and off the top when it's hot, but otherwise doesn't radiate much heat outward. Most all the heat goes up in my experience because the cast iron jacket blocks it. I think this is a good thing because it works well with clearances and doesn't run you out of the stove room.

Thanks for your feedback.

Your experience actually helps me quite a bit. One of the things we liked about our King was the ability to run it without a fan most of the time. Most of our heating was done with the fan off, and we only turned it on to warm up a cold house. How often do you run with\without the fan? Have you taken any temperature readings of the stove sides to see how hot they get? One of the things we HATE about our pellet stove is we only get heat out from the blowers. We have a large brick hearth, so clearances aren't a big issue.

 

[BKVP]

Thanks for your feedback.

Your experience actually helps me quite a bit. One of the things we liked about our King was the ability to run it without a fan most of the time. Most of our heating was done with the fan off, and we only turned it on to warm up a cold house. How often do you run with\without the fan? Have you taken any temperature readings of the stove sides to see how hot they get? One of the things we HATE about our pellet stove is we only get heat out from the blowers. We have a large brick hearth, so clearances aren't a big issue.

The King you had could hold 9" of ash, the Princess 6" and the Ashford 3". The translates to more frequent emptying of ashes. Deeper stoves tend to have fewer coals or ashes poping out the front loading door area while tending the fire. The shallower fireboxes translate to the glass staying cleaner..much more so than your King door would have.

 

[Heftiger]

The King you had could hold 9" of ash, the Princess 6" and the Ashford 3". The translates to more frequent emptying of ashes. Deeper stoves tend to have fewer coals or ashes poping out the front loading door area while tending the fire. The shallower fireboxes translate to the glass staying cleaner..much more so than your King door would have.

Great information, thanks!

I had a King Classic, so no ash pan. The Ashford we're thinking of ordering will of course have the ash pan, so I wonder if that will ease the pain of emptying the ash more often. I may be foolish, but I'm not as concerned about emptying ash. I usually went at least a month, if not 2 before I had to empty ash in the King. I think I can live with cleaning out every other week with the Ashford, if that's how it turns out. Heck, I'm cleaning out this pellet stove multiple times a week!

 

[SCOTT S.]

I have the ashford and love it. I empty ash once every 3 weeks in the shoulder seasons once a week when it's below zero. It definitely is more of a convective heater. Most people that come to my house in the shoulder season don't think the stove is running it is a very even heat. The thing I don't love about this stove is if it's below 30 degrees you will have the fan on and it's not quiet. The Ashford was the only BK the wife would let through the door she loves the looks. I am very happy with this stove but there are trade offs just best to know them before jumping in.

 

[Heftiger]

I have the ashford and love it. I empty ash once every 3 weeks in the shoulder seasons once a week when it's below zero. It definitely is more of a convective heater. Most people that come to my house in the shoulder season don't think the stove is running it is a very even heat. The thing I don't love about this stove is if it's below 30 degrees you will have the fan on and it's not quiet. The Ashford was the only BK the wife would let through the door she loves the looks. I am very happy with this stove but there are trade offs just best to know them before jumping in.

Is the fan variable speed?

 

[jeffsk7]

I have the ashford and love it. I empty ash once every 3 weeks in the shoulder seasons once a week when it's below zero. It definitely is more of a convective heater. Most people that come to my house in the shoulder season don't think the stove is running it is a very even heat. The thing I don't love about this stove is if it's below 30 degrees you will have the fan on and it's not quiet. The Ashford was the only BK the wife would let through the door she loves the looks. I am very happy with this stove but there are trade offs just best to know them before jumping in.

I agree about the fan. I have the sirrocco 30 love the stove. Clean ashes maybe every month. Easy 20+ hour burns above 38 degrees. When it hits the freezing mark im at 12-16 hours. I can sustain a temp all day and night of 68-72 degrees in the house. And if i wanted i could get it a lot hotter. But it of course would burn more wood. I burn doug fir and alder. Live in the seattle area.

 

[Heftiger]

I agree about the fan. I have the sirrocco 30 love the stove. Clean ashes maybe every month. Easy 20+ hour burns above 38 degrees. When it hits the freezing mark im at 12-16 hours. I can sustain a temp all day and night of 68-72 degrees in the house. And if i wanted i could get it a lot hotter. But it of course would burn more wood. I burn doug fir and alder. Live in the seattle area.

How often do you run your fan? How big of a space are you heating? Do you get a significant amount of heat without the fan? The brochure suggests that the stove body takes longer to warm up, and that makes sense. But I would expect that once it's warm, it should radiate heat. When you stand next to the stove do you get the warm feeling of radiant heat, or is all of the heat coming from the fan?

 

[jeffsk7]

I heat 1500sq ft with not an open floor plan. I have a small three story house. Stove on middle floor. I am able to push heat down to the daylight basement do to the celing fan right above the stairs. So if you add the basement, im heating 1800sq ft. The stove fan is variable speed and works well, but is loud. I really never use it unless the house is cold and i want to heat it up faster. But my stove never goes out. The stove puts out plenty of heat alone. If i stand next to the stove when its cruising along at around 400 degrees i start sweating. Or at least my legs feel like they are burning. My house was built in 1983 standard insulation and double pain aluminium windows.

 

[shoot-straight]

Another ashford owner here. Yes, the fan is variable. I am actually thinking of trying to rig it to run at a even lower speed than its lowest setting. And yes, I think its not that good of a radiant heater- at least when I compare it to my previous stove, which was a smaller hearthstone. Its either good or bad depending. With the fans on, it does put out some heat, QUICK. Thats for sure. The fans shorten burn times overall, some more than others. On mine it shortens burn times considerably. Im sure the next question is why- so in short, the fans blow air across the stove and strips heat off the stove, this cools the stove and the stat and makes it open more frequently and let in more air.

The Sirroco spoken about earlier is the same firebox, but does not have the cast plates. I would expect much better radiant heat out of it (and a princess).

 

[Highbeam]

Great information, thanks!

I had a King Classic, so no ash pan. The Ashford we're thinking of ordering will of course have the ash pan, so I wonder if that will ease the pain of emptying the ash more often. I may be foolish, but I'm not as concerned about emptying ash. I usually went at least a month, if not 2 before I had to empty ash in the King. I think I can live with cleaning out every other week with the Ashford, if that's how it turns out. Heck, I'm cleaning out this pellet stove multiple times a week!

Burning our west coast evergreens you will be creating much less ash than most of the US woodburners. Note the locations of posters and sometimes they even say they are burning hardwoods. Hardwoods make way way more ash than evergreens. I can almost burn a whole cord before I finally empty the ashes and even then it's not because they are spilling out but because I want to fit more wood in. More wood means more burntime.

I ran the fans all night last night. Had to recover from letting the fire go out while I worked on a flooring project. On low speed they are about as loud as a refrigerator running. The BKs (all models) use a pair of axial (paddle) fans that are variable speed and quieter than most stoves. I find them very effective on low speed.

If the new 30 series stoves had been on the market when I bought my princess. I may own one now. They are quite attractive and my previous stove was a hearthstone soapstone stove with cast iron all around and it really looked nice too. The princess was a step backwards in the aesthetics department and I heard about it. The real question is enamel or paint? Which are you looking at?

 

[Heftiger]

Gotta go with the paint. My wife likes both, but the $550 premium for the enamel and the fact that they're 2-3 weeks out for delivery means we're going with black. I think it's more timeless anyways.

 

[Heftiger]

The stove puts out plenty of heat alone. If i stand next to the stove when its cruising along at around 400 degrees i start sweating.

This is exactly my description of the King we had. My question is, would Ashford owners describe the heat similarly?

 

[Heftiger]

I guess my dilemma is this. I've always been told that wood stoves are radiant heaters, pellet stoves are convective. This home is the first experience we've ever had with a pellet stove, and we hate it. I'm not sure if it's because the pellet stove sucks, or just because we're used to a wood stove. If we hate it because of the difference between radiant and connective heat, then I'd hate to get a wood stove that basically mimics the heating properties of our pellet stove.

 

[Highbeam]

Compared to a pellet stove, the ashford will feel 95% like your king. All woodstoves are both convection and radiant. The window of all woodstoves is a large source of radiation. Once that ashford is up to temp and cruising it will feel very warm with no blower noise.

Pellet stoves are noisy, miniature furnaces with a small "fire" that doesn't emit much radiation.

 

[SCOTT S.]

It's 30 degrees outside right now and my ash ford has the place at 72 degrees with the fan on low. I'm nearing the end of the burn cycle we have been burning 3 year old oak and getting 24 hour burns. I can put my hand on the side of the stove for 20 seconds without to much discomfort I don't think you would try that with a plate steel stove. I'm not trying to steer you away from the ashford I personally love the evenness of the heat, but it does not feel like the blast of heat you get with a plate steel stove. My house is 2250 square feet.

 

[Heftiger]

Thanks again Scott. I appreciate all the data.