BK King or Kuma Sequoia

[DewDog]

I've been looking for the past couple years at heating with wood in the house. After lots of research I’m finally pulling the trigger and will make the purchase upon this last decision. Kuma Sequoia or BK King?
Location southern Indiana, 4Ksqft 1998 brick house, lots of windows, cape cod with vaulted sealing in the main room (living-dinning-upstairs loft). 28’ flue in brick chase.
Finished basement with alcove stove install. Top of alcove will be a large grate into 1st floor alcove for heat distribution along with proper return ducting in basement. Stairs are 8’ from stove location. Burning hard wood only, well seasoned property was logged 4 years ago.

Mission - long burn time with sufficient heat output. Both seem impressive but BK King boast an amazing burn time when compareded to the Sequoia. Sequoia has better efficiency ratings so I can’t under stand a double burn time being the BK fire box is only 1sqft larger but less efficient.

Thanks for any guidance!

 

[begreen]

Clear the plan for the large grate above the stove with the inspecting authority. Most likely they will want a fusible link damper installed.

Also note that the Sequoia needs a 90" ceiling height.

 

[jetsam]

The King is the clear winner in shoulder season; they'll both be good in winter. The King's impressive multi-day burn times are real but you won't use them in the real cold weather.

Bear in mind that "good" will probably not extend to "heats the whole house" for either stove. 4000sf plus the handicap of a basement install is too much for any stove.

 

[weatherguy]

Clear the plan for the large grate above the stove with the inspecting authority. Most likely they will want a fusible link damper installed.

Also note that the Sequoia needs a 90" ceiling height.

I wouldn't even clear it with the inspecting authority. Just install one, it costs me $60, the authority could clear it but the ins company can still refuse a claim.

 

[DewDog]

Clear the plan for the large grate above the stove with the inspecting authority. Most likely they will want a fusible link damper installed.

Also note that the Sequoia needs a 90" ceiling height.

I’ll check into the damper. Luckily I do have the height requirement. If it matters the alcove is full masonry. I do understand the damper though.

Just found the dampers, looks like an easy install. I appreciate the heads up! I’m trying to stay in code so it helps to know all the details. Looks like I’ll just have a couple smaller grates instead. Thanks!

 

[DewDog]

The King is the clear winner in shoulder season; they'll both be good in winter. The King's impressive multi-day burn times are real but you won't use them in the real cold weather.

Bear in mind that "good" will probably not extend to "heats the whole house" for either stove. 4000sf plus the handicap of a basement install is too much for any stove.

Sounds reasonable from all the research. I’ll still be closing off what I can of the house due to my battle with propane bills. Glad you mentioned the shoulder season, that’s probably key for my location here in southern Indiana, just a couple miles north of Louisville KY. So I’m gathering they are a lot the same other than the advantage of shoulder season burn which leads not burning as much when not needed. Thanks for the info!

 

[Highbeam]

ission - long burn time with sufficient heat output. Both seem impressive but BK King boast an amazing burn time when compareded to the Sequoia. Sequoia has better efficiency ratings so I can’t under stand a double burn time being the BK fire box is only 1sqft larger but less efficient.

This last paragraph makes me worry. You’re right that the Kuma tested more efficient. At the same output level, the Kuma will burn longer per cubic foot of fuel. But, and a big but, is that only the king can be turned way way down to make very little heat which is why it can burn for 40 hours. It just idles along for days and if the output at that low idle is enough to keep your house warm then it’s a great fit. The Kuma does not offer the wide range of outputs, mostly hot.

4000 sf is way over the rated area for the king or really any woodstove. Both of the stoves you mention are very efficient and 8” flues.

 

[DewDog]

This last paragraph makes me worry. You’re right that the Kuma tested more efficient. At the same output level, the Kuma will burn longer per cubic foot of fuel. But, and a big but, is that only the king can be turned way way down to make very little heat which is why it can burn for 40 hours. It just idles along for days and if the output at that low idle is enough to keep your house warm then it’s a great fit. The Kuma does not offer the wide range of outputs, mostly hot.

4000 sf is way over the rated area for the king or really any woodstove. Both of the stoves you mention are very efficient and 8” flues.

Is your concern the 4ksf? The basement where the stove is centered in the alcove is just a big tv room but not open to the entire basement. The basement room is approx 650sf and the only room that will be heated at that level. The vents are directly over the stove into the main rooms/center of house. This level (first floor)is the only level we actually use at this point until kids. So the entire upstairs is shut off, although it steals a lot of the heat with the vaulted ceiling, but BR doors stay closed. I’d guess the center of the house/ target area is only 2500sf. The house also has 2x6 walls and well insulated. I think my biggest heat loss was the cheap fireplace and gas insert that were originally installed. I swear I can feel a draft from the middle of the rooms. It seemed they were just a giant lung sucking air from the house. The chase is not insulated but will be to a degree after installs. Anyway I’d still like to hear what everyone thinks agree or disagree, I’m open to conversation. Not looking for solely wood heat just a lot of help!

 

[Highbeam]

I was worried that you might think the king could do the same job for 40 hours that the Kuma can only do for 12. The very important reason that the king can burn for 40 is that it has a wide range of available outputs so it can burn low and slow. Since your house is so big I don’t expect you will need that very low setting too often so might be disappointed to “only” get 24 for example.

Many homes can be fully heated with a bk on that low setting and the long burns are real. I don’t know about 4000 sf though!

 

[Ashful]

As Highbeam already explained, the Kuma has better efficiency in the range where it can burn, but the BK has more range. That low end might be useful in October-November, and March-May, but you could really make either work. Guys running stoves more limited than the Kuma make due with having smaller hot fires that pump some heat into the house, and then hope the house can retain it, they call it “pump and glide”. If your house is well insulated, and you don’t mind starting a lot of fires, it can work just fine.

The advantage of the BK, if it works for your house, is you can just load it once every 40 hours and let it sip on the wood at a low constant rate. I say “if it works in your house”, because if your house has a lot of solar gain, this might not actually work very well at all. One of my two BK’s is installed in a new addition to our house that has a ton of glass, and I actually have trouble on sunny days with this. I can burn for 36 hours on a single load, but sometimes find it’s too much to keep it going all day on days when I just want some overnight heat.

In the other half of my house, all old stone construction, it’s just the opposite. There, “pump and glide” would never work, the house starts going cold the minute the stove goes out, due to thick stone walls that stay near a constant 53F. I absolutely NEED a stove that can put out nice even heat for 12 or 24 hours at a time, in that part of the house. So, which is “best” is largely dependent on your house.

On the subject of heating a very large space, I have a lot of thoughts, I’m heating almost exactly double your house. I think woodstoves work fantastically in large homes, much better than a small home, in some regards. With a large space (eg. 4000 sq.ft. per stove), and hopefully multi-zone heating, you can use the stove to carry the majority of your base load while modulating with your central heating system. No concerns about “oversizing” the stove, or trying to get the temperature just right by diddling with burn rates and wood load volume, until you get into the aforementioned shoulder seasons. All winter, you can just stuff that stove twice per day, find a burn rate that turns that wood to coals in 12 hours, and let your central heating system keep the house balanced. You should be able to put 1.5 MBTU into that house every day with wood, using either of these stoves, and that’s going to reduce your propane usage by 500 gallons per month, without causing you or your family any discomfort in interior temperature.

 

[DewDog]

I was worried that you might think the king could do the same job for 40 hours that the Kuma can only do for 12. The very important reason that the king can burn for 40 is that it has a wide range of available outputs so it can burn low and slow. Since your house is so big I don’t expect you will need that very low setting too often so might be disappointed to “only” get 24 for example.

Many homes can be fully heated with a bk on that low setting and the long burns are real. I don’t know about 4000 sf though!

I understand. Appreciate the insight. This area averages temps in the 40’s during the days and 30’s at night. That’s kind of misleading because we can have a snap in the teens for a week or two. I’d be very satisfied with a unit that actually puts out good heat for 12hrs. Load before work and when I get home. I’m interpreting that the king would be a great for the fall and spring when temps are 40’s-60’s. I could cut it down for the advertised low burns. Even then a 20hr burn would be more than enough to make me happy. My stove in the shop needs loaded every 6hrs. Making sure I don’t have that requirement since it wouldn’t be practical for house heating.12hrs of good heat in the main rooms and I’ll be snug as a bug!

 

[Sawset]

I say “if it works in your house”

There was a lot said in this post.

 

[Highbeam]

I’d be very satisfied with a unit that actually puts out good heat for 12hrs

Either of the stoves you listed in your Original Post can do this. Both equally well. When/if 12 hour reloads are too much heat or too much work you can fall back to 24 hour or even 36 hour reloads with the BK but not the kuma. The 24 reload cycle is what I use most of the year and is very convenient. Just load it once per day when you get home from work or in the morning before you leave. It becomes a habit like making coffee.

If I were you I would consider either stove to be a partner with your central furnace. You will probably find that you can heat 100% with the stove but it takes more effort. You're willing to expend the effort at first but might settle into a more simple routine with 24 hour reloads and a squirt of propane every so often.

Do you already have the 8" flue?

 

[DewDog]

As Highbeam already explained, the Kuma has better efficiency in the range where it can burn, but the BK has more range. That low end might be useful in October-November, and March-May, but you could really make either work. Guys running stoves more limited than the Kuma make due with having smaller hot fires that pump some heat into the house, and then hope the house can retain it, they call it “pump and glide”. If your house is well insulated, and you don’t mind starting a lot of fires, it can work just fine.

The advantage of the BK, if it works for your house, is you can just load it once every 40 hours and let it sip on the wood at a low constant rate. I say “if it works in your house”, because if your house has a lot of solar gain, this might not actually work very well at all. One of my two BK’s is installed in a new addition to our house that has a ton of glass, and I actually have trouble on sunny days with this. I can burn for 36 hours on a single load, but sometimes find it’s too much to keep it going all day on days when I just want some overnight heat.

In the other half of my house, all old stone construction, it’s just the opposite. There, “pump and glide” would never work, the house starts going cold the minute the stove goes out, due to thick stone walls that stay near a constant 53F. I absolutely NEED a stove that can put out nice even heat for 12 or 24 hours at a time, in that part of the house. So, which is “best” is largely dependent on your house.

On the subject of heating a very large space, I have a lot of thoughts, I’m heating almost exactly double your house. I think woodstoves work fantastically in large homes, much better than a small home, in some regards. With a large space (eg. 4000 sq.ft. per stove), and hopefully multi-zone heating, you can use the stove to carry the majority of your base load while modulating with your central heating system. No concerns about “oversizing” the stove, or trying to get the temperature just right by diddling with burn rates and wood load volume, until you get into the aforementioned shoulder seasons. All winter, you can just stuff that stove twice per day, find a burn rate that turns that wood to coals in 12 hours, and let your central heating system keep the house balanced. You should be able to put 1.5 MBTU into that house every day with wood, using either of these stoves, and that’s going to reduce your propane usage by 500 gallons per month, without causing you or your family any discomfort in interior temperature.

Your last paragraph is 100% of what I was thinking. The cheap open fire place i had in the basement actually made a difference when I used it, knowing the majority of the heat was going straight up the flue. That’s what led me to think an actual stove designed to pump heat would work good. I will have 3 tapped in adjustable vents on the return side pulling air from the stove room and the mentioned vents at the top of the maonary alcove. I was planning on the central system for the majority of the air movement for what doesnt pass through the upper vents. Our current propane rate is around 1.5-2 months per fill on a 500gal tank. I was hoping to cut the propane by half with the wood stove in the cold months and maybe 2/3 during the shoulder months.
Thoughts?

 

[begreen]

Our current propane rate is around 1.5-2 months per fill on a 500gal tank. I was hoping to cut the propane by half with the wood stove in the cold months and maybe 2/3 during the shoulder months.

That seems reasonable. At that rate in a 2 month refill period the house is losing about 41Milllon BTUs. A couple cords of fully seasoned oak at 75% efficiency is going to provide about 36 Million BTUs.

The key is going to be getting ahead and having enough fully seasoned firewood. Oak takes a couple years to season after being split and stacked or longer during very wet summers.

 

[Ashful]

Our current propane rate is around 1.5-2 months per fill on a 500gal tank. I was hoping to cut the propane by half with the wood stove in the cold months and maybe 2/3 during the shoulder months.
Thoughts?

I’m cutting my oil bill by more than half with wood, so this is very do-able. They used to fill my oil tank every 7 - 10 days before I had these stoves, now it’s every 3 - 4 weeks.

Your mention of a basement fireplace has me concerned. Your OP made me think you were putting this on the main level, open living/dining room with loft to second floor. Is this still the case? If it’s a basement install, that changes the constraints, a bit.

 

[begreen]

Your mention of a basement fireplace has me concerned.

Finished basement with alcove stove install. Top of alcove will be a large grate into 1st floor alcove for heat distribution along with proper return ducting in basement. Stairs are 8’ from stove location. Burning hard wood only, well seasoned property was logged 4 years ago.

It's in a smaller basement room with a large grate in the ceiling planned.

 

[Highbeam]

Thoughts?

Start stacking wood. Even efficient stoves can consume a lot of seasoned wood when you are trying to cut the heating bills in half with a large home. You will love the heat and probably keep that stove room warmer than before.

I only use 5 cords per year but go into every winter with 10 cords covered so that I'm burning 2 year old wood minimum. In my climate with my species it only takes one year to season from green to great stove chow.

 

[Highbeam]

Basement means different things to different people. Some don't even include that area as square footage of the home.

Finished basement should be equivalent or even easier to heat than above ground living space.

 

[Ashful]

That seems reasonable. At that rate in a 2 month refill period the house is losing about 41Milllon BTUs. A couple cords of fully seasoned oak at 75% efficiency is going to provide about 36 Million BTUs.

Agreed on the conclusion, but there’s a couple of additional factors on the math that gets us there. Before the stoves, we only heated certain parts of the house to 70F for an hour each morning and a few hours each evening, and the majority of the house was kept at 62F for the majority of the time (overnights, all day while we’re at work, etc.). When we added the stoves, of course we started keeping most of the house around 72F, pretty much 24/7.

Our average outdoor temperature runs in the low/mid-30’s for the core of winter, which means a change in my average indoor/outdoor delta from 30F to 40F, or 25% more heat loss. It’s likely the OP is in a similar scenario, so their 20 MBTU/mo. load may skip up to 25 MBTU, but they’ll be warmer!

 

[Ashful]

Basement means different things to different people. Some don't even include that area as square footage of the home.

Finished basement should be equivalent or even easier to heat than above ground living space.

This is simple. Don’t count any rooms below the stove in the stove heat load. Heat doesn’t generally move downward.

We have a finished basement, and the staircase to it is in our stove room... but the basement stays cold until I turn the heat on down there.

 

[Highbeam]

This is simple. Don’t count any rooms below the stove in the stove heat load. Heat doesn’t generally move downward.

We have a finished basement, and the staircase to it is in our stove room... but the basement stays cold until I turn the heat on down there.

Apparently it's not that simple, I understood his stove to be in the "basement" which is really just a lower floor of living space. Tall chimney but 2x6 construction in Kentucky so it might be modern chimney pipe.

 

[begreen]

I read this is an insulated 650 sq ft room in the basement. The description of an alcove install leads me to think maybe this is a ZC tearout and a freestander going in? @DewDog can you clarify?

 

[bholler]

Your last paragraph is 100% of what I was thinking. The cheap open fire place i had in the basement actually made a difference when I used it, knowing the majority of the heat was going straight up the flue. That’s what led me to think an actual stove designed to pump heat would work good. I will have 3 tapped in adjustable vents on the return side pulling air from the stove room and the mentioned vents at the top of the maonary alcove. I was planning on the central system for the majority of the air movement for what doesnt pass through the upper vents. Our current propane rate is around 1.5-2 months per fill on a 500gal tank. I was hoping to cut the propane by half with the wood stove in the cold months and maybe 2/3 during the shoulder months.
Thoughts?

Pulling air out of the stove room with the HVAC system can cause lots of problems

 

[DewDog]

I read this is an insulated 650 sq ft room in the basement. The description of an alcove install leads me to think maybe this is a ZC tearout and a freestander going in? @DewDog can you clarify?

Yes it is a tear out. I’m in the process of knocking the brick out this weekend and have a bricklayer scheduled to lay a firebrick alcove in a couple weeks. The flue is 8”