Blaze King Princess Insert Install gone wrong

[sisterblue]

Hello Hearth Family

First time poster who has read hundreds of threads to figure out why my house was getting smoked out more and more every fire/reload last winter. With all of your help I exhausted every option, hired chimney company to clean chimney (after only 2 months of use) to find that the install was a disaster.

What we had when we bought house 18 yrs ago. Was built in 1994 1800+ sq ft with a prefabricated fire box inside the typical framed T-111 exterior rectangular shaped structure. The kind you'd have the blk metal grate, not meant to heat and have for small fire or burning a dura-flame. A few yrs later we put in a Majestic Gas stove insert, but the cost of propane brought us to finally getting that wood stove we had always wanted and missed.

After an 11+hrs install x 2 guys and 1 liner damaged by them that they had to have a second one brought out.... this is what was found when the chimney cleaners came and said they had never seen anything like this and we should have their inspector look at it so we did.

They cut the pre fab box top off/out back to where liner attaches/joins to fire box/stove. Cut 1/2 the liner with 3 V shaped cuts about 3-4 inches up liner we think was to make fit and used 4 wraps of aluminum 3" wide tape to cover the cuts to liner. The liner top and bottom has screws that appear to not be self tapping that didn't penetrate and just pushed liner away from a complete connection leaving gaps. The chimney cap/collar is also a mess.

The stove is being removed with full refund, but they have offered to come in and fix it/make it right if we want to. Now that I've calmed down a bit I've been wondering if we should and what all that would entail. We are not whole with removal and refund as the fire box has been ruined and can not ever be used again from what I can find and would never have passed nor would it now for even gas.

What are your thoughts....
Remove/refund as scheduled and call it done? Take the offered to fix/make it right? But what do I need to make sure it's truly fixed and can pass county inspection? Just a new fire box, liner, cap/top?

We absolutely love the BK Princess Insert! I know we can board it over for now and put in a free standing w/straight pipe up and out, but then we lose space, which we don't have a lot of. And most of all.... there are only a few BK Dealers and who do we trust! So if you were to let them come back in and tell you how they would make it right.... what would they need to replace?

Any help/thoughts/ideas would be much appreciated and very welcome. Sorry for the long post and thank you in advance

 

[Highbeam]

In kitsap you probably have the same stove dealer I do but not sure about installer. I wish I knew more about inserts, can’t help much. I know the others here would love to see some photos of your problem.

Glad you’re getting a county inspection. They don’t know everything but you can use them as a tool to get the proper installation.

 

[begreen]

Sorry to hear about all the problems. It sounds like a completely botched installation that might have been improper from the get go. They destroyed the fireplace by cutting it up. I seriously doubt the fireplace is repairable. Not matter what they patch up now it will be untested. The best option may be to remove all and see about converting the fireplace cavity to an alcove. This will require close attention to clearances. but it may be possible depending on the fireplace chase cavity width. The insert would need to be replaced with a freestanding stove, perhaps the Chinook 30?

 

[sisterblue]

Thanks guys. I'm actually doing some measuring now and trying to read BK hearth requirements. My current hearth isn't even proper.
Here are a couple of the many pictures I was smart enough to take.

 

[begreen]

Ugh. Quite the hack job. Definitely not restorable. The installer should have refused to install the insert. Do you know the make and model of the zc fireplace?

 

[sisterblue]

From what I've been reading it sounds like the entire firebox would have to be replaced with a new one.
The chimney inspector could not find the name plate/model info for it. Said we would have to do a Level 3 inspection to get into the back and was probably removed by installers.

 

[begreen]

Most likely the complete fireplace needs to be replaced.

 

[sisterblue]

I think you've confirmed my gut feeling.... total loss. And with measurements for the hearth for the Princess (16") from the front I'm so short and it should have been another reason they shouldn't have done the install.
With the amount of add on I would have to make on the hearth, I guess I will stick with the removal, cover/wall it over and look into a free standing and build a whole new hearth.
Thank you begreen & Higbeam for your responses. You all are amazing and I used so much of your posted knowledge to get as far as I did before something really bad had happened to my family and home

I'm going to be talking with the owner probably tomorrow and stove is scheduled to come out Monday morning with refund.

Not many BK dealers besides the one we used and had install, so now to figure out a game plan before our weather changes Ugh is tight

 

[sisterblue]

*right

 

[kennyp2339]

From the beginning it was wrong, you can not put a insert into a zero clearance prefab fire box that is only supported by wood framing unless the prefab has been tested with the insert, some of the problems are venting the unit (making sure the outside metal box stays cool enough) the prefab chimney is rated for 2,100deg f and not the more typical 1,700deg f (UL127)
Inserts are made for certified masonry fireplaces, these fireplaces have 8" minimum concrete / masonry thickness, a lined chimney (whether its block with clay liner, or block with insulated stainless steel liner. A hearth that will give you the minimum 16" in front of loading door.
The main issue that I can see other then the chimney not being able to provide enough protection during a chimney fire is the insert itself sitting on the prefab fireplace floor burning 24/7 and the heat transferring through conduction and not venting correctly since the top of the prefab firebox looks compromised from the original insert installation and warming up the wood subfloor and t1-11 walls and what ever is above it (wooden chimney chase?), possibly starting a fire through thermal degradation (long term temp exposure that lowers the flash point of a material)

 

[webby3650]

From the beginning it was wrong, you can not put a insert into a zero clearance prefab fire box that is only supported by wood framing unless the prefab has been tested with the insert, some of the problems are venting the unit (making sure the outside metal box stays cool enough) the prefab chimney is rated for 2,100deg f and not the more typical 1,700deg f (UL127)
Inserts are made for certified masonry fireplaces, these fireplaces have 8" minimum concrete / masonry thickness, a lined chimney (whether its block with clay liner, or block with insulated stainless steel liner. A hearth that will give you the minimum 16" in front of loading door.
The main issue that I can see other then the chimney not being able to provide enough protection during a chimney fire is the insert itself sitting on the prefab fireplace floor burning 24/7 and the heat transferring through conduction and not venting correctly since the top of the prefab firebox looks compromised from the original insert installation and warming up the wood subfloor and t1-11 walls and what ever is above it (wooden chimney chase?), possibly starting a fire through thermal degradation (long term temp exposure that lowers the flash point of a material)

You are partly correct. The princess insert is approved for zero clearance installations. It must be properly installed though. The maker of this particular fireplace may or may not allow it, most Fireplace place manufacturers didn’t test for it. Why would they? There’s no money in it for them, only expense. It’s a grey area to say the least...

The only viable option I see at this point is to remove the entire system. That Fireplace is a lot bigger than what you are seeing, just replacing the firebox is a huge undertaking, not to mention that company is likely out of business. So new chimney would also be necessary. I’m with Begreen, make an alcove out of the space for a freestanding BK.

 

[webby3650]

I think you've confirmed my gut feeling.... total loss. And with measurements for the hearth for the Princess (16") from the front I'm so short and it should have been another reason they shouldn't have done the install.
With the amount of add on I would have to make on the hearth, I guess I will stick with the removal, cover/wall it over and look into a free standing and build a whole new hearth.
Thank you begreen & Higbeam for your responses. You all are amazing and I used so much of your posted knowledge to get as far as I did before something really bad had happened to my family and home

I'm going to be talking with the owner probably tomorrow and stove is scheduled to come out Monday morning with refund.

Not many BK dealers besides the one we used and had install, so now to figure out a game plan before our weather changes Ugh is tight

Don’t just let them remove the insert and settle for a refund. Your Fireplace is ruined and cannot be used for anything now. It was an unsafe install from the very beginning! They need to make this right.

 

[Highbeam]

For reference, you can buy your stove and then separately hire an installer. I drove to Bremerton to pick up my bk and drive it home in my pickup.

 

[begreen]

Given this is a legacy ZC fireplace it's also possible the chimney system needs replacement as the old chimney pipe may be incompatible with a modern replacement fireplace. If that is the case there would be that additional cost as well. Many of these ZC units were installed in a 48" wide framed area. If that is the case here then adding a ceiling and installing new chimney pipe for a freestanding stove can be more practical and in the end it could be a better heating solution than the insert.

 

[Highbeam]

The insert princess is good but there are a few reasons that I like the freestanding bk better anyway.

In 1994 this fireplace would likely have been built as a cantilevered bump out with a sided chase attached on the outside wall. It’s not likely on a footing. All to say that it’s stick framed with plenty of room and pretty easy modification into an alcove.

An alcove conversion is much harder than picking a new spot and running just a pipe up and through the ceiling.

The op could just bury this whole thing behind Sheetrock and put a freestanding stove right in front of it and a vertical chimney through the ceiling right next to the old one. Maybe demo the old fireplace or maybe not.

Money and time.

 

[begreen]

Very true but they are concerned about losing space which they don't have a lot of. An alcove install offers a solution to that concern. Considering the bump out is already there, I would make use of it.

 

[Highbeam]

Very true but they are concerned about losing space which they don't have a lot of. An alcove install offers a solution to that concern. Considering the bump out is already there, I would make use of it.

Me too. But it’s a much more involved and lengthy project. Demolition, Sheetrock guys, carpenters, electricians, etc. It could be really nice.

Or plop down a premanufactured hearth pad, stove, and a single chimney guy shows up and pops in a pipe. Done in half a day! The bk stoves have close clearances so the stove doesn’t take up much floor space.

Sort of depends on the budget, timeline, owner desires. Heck, this might be a double wide trailer house or a huge cabin on a lake. I think we know that either method is acceptable and appropriate.