Bogydave's alaska wood shed (planning stages)

[bogydave]

OK , my rough plan is 36 feet long, 6 or 7 feet wide (deep).
Roof 6' high in the back, 7-1/2 in the front.
Hoping to get 10-12 cords covered with it & maybe room for a little "stuff" on the right side end(garden tools, mauls, 4wheeler trailer etc)
Not to be a work of art, just a dry woodshed that looks well thought out & functional.

The ground (where wood is now) where I plan to put it has some slope, about a 1-1/2 foot drop in the 36 feet. I don't think that maters if I just make it level from the 6' up hill side, it will be 7 feet +/- on the low end.
4 corner posts & 3 middle posts, one in the middle & split the difference from middle to corner. (sono tubes or those pyrimid concret blocks??)
All open front, pallet floor &/or treated wood to fill in where pallets don't, stepped down following the slope.
Something to cover the back & sides but let air flow.
full sheet of plywood on the roof, with 6" over hang on the back & whatever it ends up with over hang on the front.
maybe metal roof, depending on budget, but snow slides off the metal good.
Problem is the wind will be quartering the left-front so when it blow snow, it may get some snow inside on the wood. (tarp won't last in the wind very long) maybe some drop in 9 foot 2X8s or something with space between them say 1/2"

JerseyWreckDiver suggests to: Cover the ground with a vapor barrier before putting in the floor. I like it.

Suggestions greatly appreciated.

Pic:to be the location, back side will be close to property line (will get good border marker so I won't have to move it )
PS : see that bright spot thru the ice fog, it's the sun at high noon here in Dec

 

[gzecc]

Is it possible to scrounge building materials in your area. I would look for old pressure treated decking. I took a 2x6 deck apart for a job once and have been using that stuff ever since.
I assume its just going to sit on the ground? Can you even dig into the ground?

 

[bogydave]

Is it possible to scrounge building materials in your area. I would look for old pressure treated decking. I took a 2x6 deck apart for a job once and have been using that stuff ever since.
I assume its just going to sit on the ground? Can you even dig into the ground?

Not a real possibility but you can bet I'll be looking. Maybe a couple of contractor buddies have some left overs of this & that, that I'll make use of.
Probaly can use rough cut lumber & may check kout a locl saw mill & see what the prices $$ are of some of the lumber.

 

[bogydave]

Here is a sketch (pic) of what I'd like it to look like. (well even close would be nice)
Only change I'd had to make is run the roof to drain off the back & wider. I'd like 7 feet wide, hold more wood & only 36 feet long.
That storage bin in the middle is a great idea. I may put it on the right end for my use but, in the middle is tough to argue, it just look "right" in the middle

Carbon_Liberator, just a nice, well made, good looking, super funtional wood shed. The "Gold Standard" as wood sheds go. IMHO
Hope I'm not infringoing on any patents

?s Carbon_Liberator & anyone a few ?s:

Any reason the roof couldn't drain to the back, (other than it's on somebody elses property)
Did you put footers, sono-tubes or pilar blocks for the vertical supports? (or is it just timbers on the ground, hard to tell from the photo)
I was going to go with 9 foot sections & vertical supports, did you need the section walls to give it some rigidity? (I see one cross brace on the one on the left)
Did you wood the roof prior to the metal , or is the roof just the metal?

I found a source of local roughcut lumber, I'll check prices compared to Lowes & HD. I think a 4 X 6 should support the 9' roof sections.

6' high in the back, 7-1/2' in the front should be enough roof pich.
Around cords per section

 

[Tony H]

Here is a sketch (pic) of what I'd like it to look like. (well even close would be nice)
Only change I'd had to make is run the roof to drain off the back & wider. I'd like 7 feet wide, hold more wood & only 36 feet long.
That storage bin in the middle is a great idea. I may put it on the right end for my use but, in the middle is tough to argue, it just look "right" in the middle

Carbon_Liberator, just a nice, well made, good looking, super funtional wood shed. The "Gold Standard" as wood sheds go. IMHO
Hope I'm not infringoing on any patents

I agree a very nice design and works well as a screen built along the lot line. Just make sure you observe any rules that deal with setback or height restrictions . Having a space for the 4wheeler and splitter would be nice and would be great if you can move the 4wheeler and split some wood under shelter. If possible some power for lights would be nice.
As you can tell I am also taking this design and changing / adding a couple things to make it work for my uses
good luck

 

[ansehnlich1]

I think your plan is a fine one. Just make sure you provide for the entire thing so it doesn't grow wings and fly away. I mean, if you're not setting the posts in the ground I'd be concerned about wind lifting it up and twisting it around or pitching it over.

Maybe drive rebar into the ground and attach the upright posts to the rebar. If I ever build a shed it will be long and narrow similar to this, front and back open, only deep enough for 2 rows of wood making it easy to work out of from both sides.

Currently I have my stacks covered with cutoff pieces of plywood/OSB and then covered with rubber roofing, tops only, sides wide open. I don't worry about rain/snow on the ends of the piles as it always drys out in the dry and windy conditions here that always follow a storm. I keep a cord on the back porch, so if I time restocking the back porch through the burning season it works out just fine.

 

[Valhalla]

Dave,

Some great concept ideas so far! Let's see, you brought
forward some interesting ideas. I am keen on many of them.

1. Will this need to be built to any code in your town? For outbuildings
and such.

2. Since you want to use a floating foundation, why not make
it modular? Easy to configure, even change, as your needs may require.

3. Moisture may be trapped under the plastic, besides its life
and durability being in question. I would pass on it. You will
have good drainage. The pallets will provide air circulation and be
easily replaced.

4. How about access? You need staging for logistics of
incoming materials.

Keep goining on your new dream!

 

[LLigetfa]

I like carb-lib's long narrow design. I would however slope the roof the opposite way just so snow doesn't slide down and pack in front when I'm not around to remove it right away. I'm sure his is sloped that way as a good neighbor thing. I don't think he gets a lot of snow.

I would make it 3 courses deep rather than 2 so with my 20" wood, that would be 5 feet. For the partitions I would just use studs in a WW pattern for racking strength and only put boards on the two ends.

I made the mistake of sinking 6x6 posts that the frost started jacking. My shed is now a foot taller than planned. I had to drive in a dozen helical screw anchors to stop the jacking. I should have just bolted the posts to the slab on grade and put in diagonals for racking strength.

 

[LLigetfa]

If you intend to use sono tubes, you will need to address frost jacking. First off, the bottoms need to flare out which you can do by cutting vertical slits in the base of the tubes. Then wrap the top 4 feet of straight section with several layers of 6 mil poly and the frost won't be able to grab it by the sides. If helical piers are available in your area, you may want to consider those instead.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I agree with the 3 courses deep. One of my sheds is 2 deep and the other is 5. 5 makes it harder to rotate or separate the stock. I wish I had extended the 2 to 3 as it wouldn't have cost much to get 50% more wood in there.

Depending on your reach, I would consider going taller. Going up is a cheap gain in capacity. I stack to 10' using an oversized cinder block as a step. If you give yourself a flat ceiling to stack against, the taller stacks are stable with what I expect to be your 18" splits. The ceiling may be a good application for pallets.

Pallets are a great tool and cheap resource. But for a permanent installation, I would use stone or concrete for the floor. I use a combination of stone and road dust from the water department. Stone to make the drainage work and road dust to make smooth out the work surface. You want that surface under your stack high and dry.

 

[Spikem]

I agree with the 3 courses deep. One of my sheds is 2 deep and the other is 5. 5 makes it harder to rotate or separate the stock. I wish I had extended the 2 to 3 as it wouldn't have cost much to get 50% more wood in there.

Depending on your reach, I would consider going taller. Going up is a cheap gain in capacity. I stack to 10' using an oversized cinder block as a step. If you give yourself a flat ceiling to stack against, the taller stacks are stable with what I expect to be your 18" splits. The ceiling may be a good application for pallets.

Pallets are a great tool and cheap resource. But for a permanent installation, I would use stone or concrete for the floor. I use a combination of stone and road dust from the water department. Stone to make the drainage work and road dust to make smooth out the work surface. You want that surface under your stack high and dry.

If you poured a slab of concrete, for example, 5x24, wouldn't the weight of the wood crack the concrete?

 

[LLigetfa]

It would depend how well the base is packed, how thick the slab is, the grade of concrete, and whether it has a club foot and is reinforced with rebar. Also, frost heaving is more likely to crack the slab than the weight of the wood. If the 5x24 slab were partioned into bays, one should put in crack control joints at the partitions.

 

[Spikem]

I'm planning one that will be a lot like Carb-Lib's epic but I'm planning on it sitting on a framework of 4x4s that is 6'high (7' in the front) by 5' deep by 24' long. I figure I'll have to sink sono-tubes every 6' in length. I also figure to have the bottom of this about 6" off the ground for better ventilation.

It's the best I can come up with.

If there are things I'm missing or if it's a bad design, please feel free to correct me.

 

[bogydave]

Great, some really good ideas.
Several things i din't think of . Thanks.

Tony H:
Yep, I'd better remember to get the "lot line" located right on, don't want to build my neighbor a nice wood shed. lol
Always need dry storage for "stuff", never have enough.

ansehnlich1:
I planned on using pier blocks (photo below) with fixed or threaded levelers. I will dig down to gravel (about 1 - 2 ft)
then put a treated 4X4 for the vertical support. Maybe the sono-tube, down 4', ?? (have time to decide if I want to add
a few more steps & mix or order concrete. Adds $ also)
Good point about the wind, I'll need to anchor the verticals because the will be quartering the front of the shed.
The wind I will get (NNW) has taken a green house & ripped sheeting of my garage wall before I got the garage door on.
Maybe not use drop in leveler brackets but use the fixed bracket as in the one in the picture.

Valhalla:
No code for a non permanant structure, that's why I won't pour a concrete monolithic slab.
It will be built kinda in the modular concept to allow it to flex some, at each vertical, for the frost heaves I will probable encounter
Your no need "Moisture barrier" comment makes good sense. I plan to bring in some pit run gravel for the base floor
which will have adequate drainage & have pallets for the wood. A vapor barrier may just trap water on it &
give the mosquitoes a place to breed.

LLigetfa:
I plan on the roof to slope to the back. Like you said, snow is going to slide off & pile up in front of the wood. Rain
& snow both off the back & the wind won't blow the drips on the face of the wood.
I was going to make it 4 or 5 courses deep, more dry storage space & one 8' sheet of plywood,
front to back (no cutting plywood) each 9' section will hold about 3 cords (4 sections total)
Good point, some diagonals for both front to back & side to side racking. Will cover back wall
with something similar to Carb-Lib's, shich will help with side to side racking.

LLigetfa:
The new sono-tube molds come with a flare at the bottom to do just what you mentioned.
I may sono-tube the 4 corners & front verticals, it will get the deepest frost since I'll plow the snow from
the front for access. Also addresses the anchor down for the wind issue.

Spikem: A concrete monolithic slab holds up well if you dig out & then refill & compact with pit-run & cap with D-1. But
in my case, it becomes a permanent structure & opens up the permitting issues.
I built my 36 X52 shop with a mono-slab, & it's holding up so far.
. Your 6' span for verticals will/should be plenty strong, the support beam between the verticals
determines the strength.
I'm planning on 9' span, & using a 4 X 6 & 2X6 X 8' for trusses, it's just supporting a 8' roof & moderate snow load.
The 2 end sections will have a 10 foot 4 X 6 sticking out a foot on each end to hang stuff on, lights, eye bolt for a pully etc.

Coming together quicker than I expected, Now I'm anxious for spring, (well, always anxious for spring but more so now)

 

[Lumber-Jack]

Hey Bogy, just read this thread and saw you were asking some questions about my woodshed. Looks like you got a lot of good answers already, but I'll reply anyway.

Any reason the roof couldn’t drain to the back, (other than it’s on somebody elses property)
Yep, I sloped it my way so the rain and snow would not go into the neighbor's place. Not much rain or snow really comes off it anyway, it's a pretty short roof.

Did you put footers, sono-tubes or pilar blocks for the vertical supports? (or is it just timbers on the ground, hard to tell from the photo)
The back posts are sunk in the ground and sitting in a poured concrete sono-tube form. The front posts are sitting on post saddles that are sunk in that concrete curb. All the posts are treated 40 year guarantee sunwood stuff.


I was going to go with 9 foot sections & vertical supports, did you need the section walls to give it some rigidity? (I see one cross brace on the one on the left)
Yes, we put angle braces from the front post to the rear posts for rigidity, and fence boards horizontally for a wall to make it easier for stacking the wood.

Did you wood the roof prior to the metal , or is the roof just the metal?
The roof we really over built. We used double 2x8 for beams front and back between the posts and made little half trusses that sat on top of the beams, then strapped the trusses with 1x4 and the metal went on top of that. The metal roofing matches my house and garage.

Sorry, I wish I had some pics of the construction I could post, but I was so busy with work and stuff and that project at that time I didn't seem to have to to take many pictures.

I look forward to seeing how your woodshed turns out.

 

[Valhalla]

Dave,

Holy cow, you are almost ready to break ground! LOL
Except it is frozen, and you have a lot of wood to
burn and make room for your build.

It will be spring, in just a few cold months!

 

[bogydave]

Thanks carb-lib,
You sure have a popular wood shed,
Probably because it's one of the nicest we've seen, & it's full of split wood.
One real nice thing is if you want/need to add to it, just keep going & looks like a fence form the back.

Val: Mid April if i'm going to dig very deep.

 

[Spikem]

There's no reason to put the sono-tubes in 4', is there? That's what you'd do for a much more substantial structure than this. I have to think 2' is plenty.

 

[LLigetfa]

Sonotubes should go below the frost level, otherwise you might as well just bury those blocks shown or use poured footings on grade. Of course frost level varies by region. Here you need 4 to 6 feet depending on snow cover.

 

[Spikem]

Sonotubes should go below the frost level, otherwise you might as well just bury those blocks shown or use poured footings on grade. Of course frost level varies by region. Here you need 4 to 6 feet depending on snow cover.

Why?

 

[gzecc]

Burying footing in alaska for a shed is probably a waste of time. I'v heard of pipes 10' down in anchorage freezing, and popping out fire hydrants.
I vote for stone and surface footings.

 

[LLigetfa]

Sonotubes should go below the frost level, otherwise you might as well just bury those blocks shown or use poured footings on grade. Of course frost level varies by region. Here you need 4 to 6 feet depending on snow cover.

Why?

Frost and frost heaving are two different things. It's all about moisture. In the absence of moisture, frost doesn't heave. Most irregular frost heaving happens in the Spring as the frost is leaving the ground. Surface water will perc down into the frozen ground where it freezes and expands, lifting the structure. Soil can get carried down under the footing by the water/ice pressure and as the frost leaves, the footing never returns to its original position resulting in jacking. If frost doesn't grab the sides of the sonotube, there is no gap created under the footing that soil can subside into. If the bottom of the sonotube has enough flare, it is less likely to be jacked.

A slab on grade can be lifted by frost and settle back to its original position if the base under it is properly prepared.

 

[bogydave]

4 feet is the "norm" here 6 feet is frost line here if you plow the snow off or compact the snow in an area. Then a 24" ring of blue board insulation 12" deep.
(code is 8 feet for water pipes)
A few years back, Anchorage had several fire hydrant valves freeze & the are 10 & 12 feet down.
So it depends on the weather, the winter & the location.
For the wood shed, just down into the gravel with a a buried flare foot is probably as good as is really needed.
I can do that with the pier blocks & treated verticals, just bury the pier blocks. Probably more down to $ & time.
Either works, but I'm leaning toward just the pier blocks, it' just a wood shed. I can drive some duck-bills if it needs more anchors.