Brand new member here, a simple question but likely one that been asks a hundred times over...

[bicarbonate]

So as the title states, I just registered. A little background info, I'm employed by a manufacturer in the center of the lower peninsula of michigan in the IT department. My wife, three kids and I have been renting an older farmhouse for almost three years now.

The landlord agreed to letting me install my Blaze King King model wood stove inside the house. This house was built around 1909, It's had one chimney fire that know of in its life, and I'd rather that it did not have another one. But with propane costs being what they are I almost have no choice but to move forward with the project of installing this bad boy.

About me, I'm a geek that's for sure, but. I'm also an outdoorsman, hunter, hobby farmer and I'm fairly decent at construction. I've replaced upper and lower intake manifold gaskets, swapped out rear ends on trucks and built everything from coffee tables to sheds so I know my way around a tape measure

I've been google my butt off lately and here is what I have determined:

Since I have an existing masonry chimney I can tie directly into it. Provided I remove at least 18" of flammable material from the top and bottom of where I'm wanting the stove pipe to enter the chimney
Then I won't need a thimble.
At my job I have access to sheets of stainless steel for a heat shield behind the stove.


My questions thus far as simple I hope.. One is do you experienced folks know of good sources for the piping and hearth pads?
And secondly what is the best method for drilling/chipping through a clay chimney liner?

 

[HotCoals]

You're going to want a liner...or should anyways. Check out the prices on that stuff!
Other then that I'm afraid I'm not much help.
But I can tell you're a smart guy,you own a Blaze King..lol.
Good luck!

I re- read and with a clay liner in good shape you maybe ok without a liner..it gets debated here regularly.

 

[blades]

What size is the flue inside the clay liners? I do remember that a bunch of the Blaze King have an 8" dia. outlet, but what size is your unit? Another question is what age is your Blaze King, one of the newer units with a cat?
Just from an age standpoint, personally I would want a stainless liner, an insulated one would be better if there is room. 1909 build date would suggest original heating unit was Coal. do not know Mich regs., but across the border can't have two units into same flue if one is a solid fuel appliance.

 

[prezes13]

I think that only king needs 8" the other smaller models require 6". You did not specify if you are looking for an insert or a freestanding one. BK has only one insert with a cat it's the princess. They have more models to choose from if you want a freestanding stove. Ashford is beautiful especially with the enamel finish and requires only 6" liner.

 

[jeff_t]

Which model King? If it is an older, non cat, you may be able to get by with the masonry chimney. The catalytic stoves will be better with a properly sized liner, as draft is more important.

But you better have that chimney inspected before you use it, especially since you know it has had a fire. A liner may be necessary, anyway.

Welcome.

 

[BKVP]

So as the title states, I just registered. A little background info, I'm employed by a manufacturer in the center of the lower peninsula of michigan in the IT department. My wife, three kids and I have been renting an older farmhouse for almost three years now.

The landlord agreed to letting me install my Blaze King King model wood stove inside the house. This house was built around 1909, It's had one chimney fire that know of in its life, and I'd rather that it did not have another one. But with propane costs being what they are I almost have no choice but to move forward with the project of installing this bad boy.

About me, I'm a geek that's for sure, but. I'm also an outdoorsman, hunter, hobby farmer and I'm fairly decent at construction. I've replaced upper and lower intake manifold gaskets, swapped out rear ends on trucks and built everything from coffee tables to sheds so I know my way around a tape measure

I've been google my butt off lately and here is what I have determined:

Since I have an existing masonry chimney I can tie directly into it. Provided I remove at least 18" of flammable material from the top and bottom of where I'm wanting the stove pipe to enter the chimney
Then I won't need a thimble.
At my job I have access to sheets of stainless steel for a heat shield behind the stove.


My questions thus far as simple I hope.. One is do you experienced folks know of good sources for the piping and hearth pads?
And secondly what is the best method for drilling/chipping through a clay chimney liner?

I would suggest the use of double wall stove pipe and two 45's. The 18" is for single wall. Using double wall you can cut that requirement in half...approximately. Make certain to have at least 36" of vertical rise before the first 45. As pointed out, a liner is a good idea. If you have the diameter to permit, I would recommend and insulated liner if the chimney is on an exterior wall. Try to make certain you have plenty of vertical rise after the transition.

Chris

 

[bicarbonate]

Thanks guys! Ok so my BK is theKing model, pre-EPA. If my research is correct it was manufactured around 1993, it does have the 8" exhaust port.

Now the existing chimney looks brand new really, I believe it was rebuilt after the fire because the brick, liner everything looks very new. The liner is def not original material. No flues anywhere along its length. In the basement there is a flue hole through the cement block to the liner and it sort of looks like the liner was scored to be cut but never was.
I found an old car side mirror in the basement and I've used it to view up to the very top from inside the chimney and it's solid from tip to tail.

The chimney itself is interior to the house, on the first floor where I am wanting to install the stove the owner had enclosed the block of the chimney with sheet rock. My plan was to forgo the use of a thimble and remove enough sheet rock then "frame" the hole to appear like a window.

This house is a two story, there will be at least 15-18ft of vertical chimney after the meeting of the pipe.

 

[webby3650]

It sounds like that chimney is good to go then. It's uncommon to find an old chimney in new condition.
And you are correct, it's not original to house since its clay lined. The house definitely outdates clay lined chimneys.
What size is the clay flue liner?

 

[bholler]

Well just because it looks new doesnt mean that it is you should have it inspected with a camera there could be serious problems that you cant see with out a scan. Also does the chimney have proper clearance to combustibles? An interior chimney should have 2" from the exterior masonry of the chimney to any combustible materials. If it doesnt you should really consider an insulated ss liner.

 

[webby3650]

An interior chimney should have 2" from the exterior masonry of the chimney to any combustible materials.

2"? I thought only 1" was required with a masonry chimney.

 

[bholler]

2"? I thought only 1" was required with a masonry chimney.

it is 1" for an exterior chimney and 2" for interior which i think the op said it was interior

 

[BKVP]

Thanks guys! Ok so my BK is theKing model, pre-EPA. If my research is correct it was manufactured around 1993, it does have the 8" exhaust port.

Now the existing chimney looks brand new really, I believe it was rebuilt after the fire because the brick, liner everything looks very new. The liner is def not original material. No flues anywhere along its length. In the basement there is a flue hole through the cement block to the liner and it sort of looks like the liner was scored to be cut but never was.
I found an old car side mirror in the basement and I've used it to view up to the very top from inside the chimney and it's solid from tip to tail.

The chimney itself is interior to the house, on the first floor where I am wanting to install the stove the owner had enclosed the block of the chimney with sheet rock. My plan was to forgo the use of a thimble and remove enough sheet rock then "frame" the hole to appear like a window.

This house is a two story, there will be at least 15-18ft of vertical chimney after the meeting of the pipe.

BK started making catalytic stoves in 1983. Our first EPA (grandfathered in as part of Oregon DEQ) stoves were made in 1984. If your stove was made in 1993, it would be catalytic.

If it is non Catalytic it would be 1983 model.

 

[HotCoals]

And I;m here to tell you I had the pre cat BKK for years.. and now the cat one since 2010. Went from almost 5.3 cord to 3.3 on avg.. I did burn 4 cord this past season.
Way more even heat.

 

[bicarbonate]

Maybe it was pre-93 then.. this stove def does not have a cat in it. I know a pre-epa stove will tend to burn much more material than a newer model but our intentions are to burn wood during the day only to help offset the propane usage. The wife has had a couple house fires growing up, (both electrical related) so she will not be letting be burn over night.

But yeah my chimney is interior, the beams in the basement are about 2 inches away from teh cement blocks. I do not know about the rest of it's path however everywhere I have been tapping it's a nice hollow sound on the first floor and second floor.

What are the normal laws around installing a stove? are you typically required to have a pro install one? Do you have to get an inspection after wards from your city/local municipality?

Speaking of.. is there anything I need to know about using a pre-epa stove in Michigan? Looking this model up on Blaze Kings website says that this model *might* be illegal to sell, trade or give away.

 

[bholler]

You would have to check your local regulations about that as well as your insurance companies regulations. Where i am there are no requirements about having a pro do the install or about using old stoves. You are supposed to have a full level 2 inspection done whenever you change fuel type in a chimney according to nfpa211 so if there was oil or gas in the chimney before technically you would be required to have it inspected but i have never seen that enforced. But i do think you should have it professionally inspected.

 

[jeff_t]

Just because it doesn't have a cat, doesn't mean it shouldn't have a cat. Is there a model number?

My insurance company doesn't even require an inpsection or any permits, let alone a pro install. Since you are a renter, that should be a good place to start, with both your landlord's insurance co, and your own renter's insurance.

Some states have much tighter restrictions on wood burning appliances. Michigan definitely isn't one of them.

 

[bicarbonate]

It's a pre-cat model, ptj-202. Also my chimney size inside the liner is 7"x11"

 

[jeff_t]

Ya, that's old. And a Princess, by the way. Does it still have the blower?

The manual shows some pretty hefty clearances. Not sure if they can be reduced or not.

Is it UL listed? May or may not be an issue with insurance cos.

 

[bicarbonate]

Yeah, my mistake on the model name.. or maybe I was ashamed of it being a Princess (lol). Yeah I'm not too concerned about the clearances because like I said.. this is a hundred year old house. The first floor has 12ft ceilings and since it'll be going on a flat wall as opposed to a corner the 19" rear gap will be easy enough to meet. It does not have the original blower but I have a new replacement that I'll mount onto either a dimmer or a thermistor for varying fan speeds.

I fired off a msg to my insurance company about this so hopefully they will be able to let me know exactly what they need to be satisfied. Next in line would be getting it inspected.. can Sweeps do this? Any idea of what they charge for such a service? Then the drilling of the masonry/clay.. the cement block is brittle and the clay liner hard as titanium. Whats the best (i.e. easiest/cheapest) method of knocking an 8 inch holes into the chimney?

 

[bholler]

Yes any good sweep will be able to do an inspection for you. Prices will vary but i would expect it would be between 125 and 200. As far as cutting the hole the block is pretty easy the liner on the other hand is very brittle and very hard to cut without cracking it. and if it cracks you need a stainless liner for sure.

 

[bicarbonate]

Well damn.. I heard back from the insurance company. Seem i have to have it professionally installed, the installer provided them with a 'certificate' that is was installed to MFG's specs. Then they send someone out to inspect and take pictures. WTH would they need an installer certificate if they will be inspecting? I can see dollar signs rolling by now

 

[bholler]

They need a certificate so they have someone to blame if something goes wrong also there are parts of the install they will not be able to see in order to inspect.

 

[bicarbonate]

That's nothing a licensed inspector couldn't tell Im sure though right? I just don't see the difference.

 

[bholler]

no there are absolutly things that will not be visible at all after the install is done. I do agree that it is a little redundant though.

 

[kennyp2339]

And I;m here to tell you I had the pre cat BKK for years.. and now the cat one since 2010. Went from almost 5.3 cord to 3.3 on avg.. I did burn 4 cord this past season.
Way more even heat.

I just fell out of my chair, I need one of those BK's -