Change my mind

[Gearhead660]

It's time to upgrade the tractor. Currently have a 25 hp tractor that I am constantly trying to lift more than its capable of. Looking at the 33-39hp tractors. They are overall bigger with increased capabilities. Found out that they offer the bigger chassis with a 25hp motor as an option. For what I do, I dont see the extra hp as a necessity. Am I crazy to buy the bigger tractor with the smaller 25hp engine?

 

[Vg3200p]

I think you will always wish you went bigger if you buy the 25hp. Easy to run a bigger motor at 75% load than to run a smaller one at 100% load

 

[Nealm66]

I’ve had good luck with my 33 new Holland if that helps at all. Not unhappy with the woods backhoe attached. Any bigger wouldn’t fit in my 14’ dump trailer otherwise I’d get a bigger one and would go with a different brand if I thought it would gain me anything

 

[Crummy]

Take a big tractor and a small tractor both with 25 horse and your going to find the big one underpowered as where the smaller one is adequate. Takes power to turn bigger tires and move mass. I get by with my little LX and it's 1200# lifting capacity but if I was wanting more capacity I'd go 60+ horse with well over 2000# capacity. Once you lose the ability to tiptoe around the lawn without tearing it up you might as well get serious.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Your always bettwr going a little bigger. The increased lift capacity, not have to run it as hard.

 

[brenndatomu]

Resale on a larger tractor with a smaller engine won't be as good..,just something to consider.

 

[Bocephous]

The larger tractor is going to have a Tier 4 engine. I think that it is mandated on anything larger than 24 or 25hp. Some people have no issues with the extra garbage that the EPA mandates on tier 4 engines, others have nightmares to tell. Just so you're aware prior to making your decision. If you want to check resale values, go to this site: https://www.tractorhouse.com/

 

[Gearhead660]

One of the reasons to go with the 25hp is that there are no emissions stuff. Maybe go with the 33hp....Was thinking with the $ I would save, I could buy a grapple and have a 3rd function added.
Maybe I will be in the same position I am now, wishing I would have gotten a bigger tractor in a year or 2....
Lots of good things to consider. Keep em coming!

 

[brenndatomu]

The larger tractor is going to have a Tier 4 engine. I think that it is mandated on anything larger than 24 or 25hp

Good point...so maybe resale value would actually not be affected, because people will be looking for larger non tier 4 machines...so they would be willing to go with a larger low HP tractor...

 

[ericm979]

There are Tier 4 emissions requirements for < 25.5hp. They're just easier to meet and can be met with combustion chamber design and injection timing. Above 25.5hp the requirements are stricter. Most manufacturers use a DOC and a DPF. Some use only a DOC. Most use EFI but Branson still uses MFI. Branson's system has a DPF but does not do regens. They recently added the ability to run a regen on operator command. Mine does not have that and it's not needed it. If I lived in a place with cold winters and only ran it to move a hay bale every so often I might have problems.

Above 75hp the requirements are stricter still. Generally they use DPF, EGR and DEF. Your diesel pickups come in this category. Tractors under 75hp don't use DEF.

The biggest problem with tractors from 25.5 to 75hp are operator caused. Delaying regens, idling a lot, and running the engine at too low rpms all cause problems. The latter two increase soot in the DPF and require more frequent regens. Delaying regens doesn't clean it out and it keeps building up.

If you do clog the DPF it can be cleaned professionally for a few hundred $.

The vast majority of 25.5-75 hp Tier 4 machines run fine if operated correctly.

A larger frame machine with loader to match (watch out for that, some manufacturers will sneak a lower capacity loader on that lower HP machine) and a lower hp engine should be able to lift the same amount of weight. Just using the loader does not need that much HP unless you're carrying heavy stuff up hill. But if you are going up hills or you do anything that needs power like running a PTO chipper, you'll wish you had the more powerful engine.

 

[Nealm66]

I checked out tractorhouse.com and looked for least amount of depreciation loss by brand/hp. Sometimes a good deal pops up as well

 

[Soul on Fire]

What brand of tractors are you looking at? More hp doesn't necessarily equal higher lift capacities. I have gone down this rabbit hole myself and watched numerous youtube videos of real world weighted loader tests to see how they compared to the manufactures specs. If you look at the Kubota L line you will see that the L2501, L3402, and L3901 all have the same lift capacity specs regardless of the hp.

Now if you go from the B2601 to the LX2610 to the L2501 you are looking at roughly the same hp but increase in frame and axle size with sight increase in lift capacities as well. The L will handle about 200 more pounds than the B but much better and much more stable.

 

[peakbagger]

When I looked at the prices of new tractor loaders I figured I could buy a nearly zero hours military surplus Mercedes built FLU 419 with 100 HP and no emissions and road legal for less than half of the price of a new much smaller unit, I bought a 419. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimog_419

It's a beast. Its got a Case backhoe on the rear. No doubt if the US military had not auctioned them off a fee years ago they would be shipping them to Ukraine as they were designed to fight a land ware in Europe but by the time they were delivered the Soviet Union was no more so most of them sat for a couple of decades.

 

[duramaxman05]

We bought a john deere 3033r last year and we love the tractor. However I wish we would have gotten 3039r. You really notice lower power when traveling in high range at road speed. It all depends on what you are going to do with it. If you stay under 30hp, you don't have a dpf and emission crap.

 

[Gearhead660]

What brand of tractors are you looking at? More hp doesn't necessarily equal higher lift capacities. I have gone down this rabbit hole myself and watched numerous youtube videos of real world weighted loader tests to see how they compared to the manufactures specs. If you look at the Kubota L line you will see that the L2501, L3402, and L3901 all have the same lift capacity specs regardless of the hp.

Now if you go from the B2601 to the LX2610 to the L2501 you are looking at roughly the same hp but increase in frame and axle size with sight increase in lift capacities as well. The L will handle about 200 more pounds than the B but much better and much more stable.

I am looking at Kubota, Mahindra and LS as those are available at dealers near me. I understand that they have the same lift capacity, just uncertain what hp to get.
The confusing thing for consumers is that the manufacturers dont use a universal way of rating lift capacities.

 

[Gearhead660]

When I looked at the prices of new tractor loaders I figured I could buy a nearly zero hours military surplus Mercedes built FLU 419 with 100 HP and no emissions and road legal for less than half of the price of a new much smaller unit, I bought a 419. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimog_419

It's a beast. Its got a Case backhoe on the rear. No doubt if the US military had not auctioned them off a fee years ago they would be shipping them to Ukraine as they were designed to fight a land ware in Europe but by the time they were delivered the Soviet Union was no more so most of them sat for a couple of decades.

I have seen your beast and would love one of those!

 

[Gearhead660]

We bought a john deere 3033r last year and we love the tractor. However I wish we would have gotten 3039r. You really notice lower power when traveling in high range at road speed. It all depends on what you are going to do with it. If you stay under 30hp, you don't have a dpf and emission crap.

What do you mostly use it for? I looked at that model a couple years ago. Decided I didnt need a tractor that big...boy was I wrong.

 

[Soul on Fire]

Yes, it would be nice if they used universal lift capacities and didn't try to push ohhh my brand camp lift x amount at the pins. How high does the load need to go? Are we talking up into a dumpster, or back of the truck, or just off the ground enough to move from point A to B? To give you an example I can pick up and move 275 gallon IBC cages 3/4 of the way filled with green oak a foot of the ground to move from my splitting station to my drying area with my B2601. Am i getting that cage up/outta my pick though? Not a chance in....
What other work are you looking to do with the tractor? Is it dedicated to loader work or is it also used for mowing, 3 point chipping, things that could require extra horsepower? Or maybe some of those things could be in its future. Mine only has about 19.5 hp at the pto so it limits me to what sized implements I could run off it (6" chipper and 60" mower).

 

[Bocephous]

You can research the tractors you're interested in here: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/

Owner experience means a lot. If I was in your shoes, or had to do it again, I'd look for a low hour Kubota 3940 or 4240. Pre-tier 4, high quality (Japanese know how to build machinery), very high value retention, and they have a really neat transmission that splits each range (low, medium, high) in half with the flip of a lever. So, if you're climbing a hill in medium and start to lose power you can switch it to the lower half of medium range. Not sure if someone can explain it better, but it's something I remember from test driving it prior to buying my LS, which was about $10,000 less expensive.

Loader capability: Something to keep in mind...just because it can lift something doesn't mean you should. I maxed out my loader a few times removing pallets of coal from the back of a flat bed truck. Eventually ended up destroying a front wheel bearing. Not something everyone thinks about, as I obviously didn't til I engaged in operator error.

 

[Tonty]

Buy a diesel 1650 Oliver. It’s pre Tier-anything. 😂 Mine has a shift on the fly three speed in each gear, a big loader whose capacity hasn’t been reached yet, and will twist shafts off of 6’ mowers. 😱 Plus you get the thrill of owning a vintage piece of equipment, all for a discount price. 😜

 

[gzecc]

HP is only one part of the equation. Don't fall into the HP trap. Its like thinking more HP makes a vehicle go faster. If that were the case a diesel locomotive would be a drag racer.
HP rating are used as a sales technique. Do your homework on what you actually want the machine to excel at. Like all equipment they have specific strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

All you have to do is put larger diameter cylinders on the loader. (As long as the rest of the system is strong enough)

Growing up on the farm, the tractors would lift damn near anything, and if a tractor couldn't lift it, it wasn't supposed to be moved.

Now they put skinny little cylinders on them and say they will lift more than the old ones. A friend of mine has a 25hp tractor and it can't lift a thing once he puts the forks on it. It's almost useless.

I know....bigger cylinders will make it dangerous and break something..... No they won't, the operator does that.

If I had one, bigger cylinders would be the first mod.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

Guys put loaders on lawnmowers that will lift 400 lbs. I have seen a couple of loaders on cub cadets that have a breakout force of 2000 lbs....ON A LAWNMOWER

Put some bigger cylinders on it and have fun. (Within reason) .5-1" bigger should be fine. It'll be a bit slower, but it will lift more. Those cylinders are so small, a 1/2" bigger diameter should do a lot of good.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

Going from 1.5" to 2" will give about an 80% increase in lifting power.

Going from 2" to 2.5" will be about a 50% increase.

 

[duramaxman05]

Mainly yard work and cutting wood. We went with the r series because they offer a bigger loader and it you can take the loader off in a couple minutes. And the suspension seat and comfort overall is night and day difference between the d and e series.

What do you mostly use it for? I looked at that model a couple years ago. Decided I didnt need a tractor that big...boy was I wrong.