Chimney can't be lined for our fireplace?

[mmjunior]

Hi all. New member here -- and relatively new to fireplaces, wood-burning, etc. I'm curious to get your thoughts on the situation below...

We've been told by a local chimney sweep/repair company that our chimney cannot be properly lined for our wood-burning fireplace (it is not currently lined - just brick masonry). The company DID initially think it was possible. They came out to install an 8.5" x 13" rectangular liner. But as they started the job, they discovered a narrow portion of the chimney that would prevent them from running the liner flush down the whole chimney. They say this is required by code for a wood-burning fireplace. So, unfortunately they had to abort the job. They said it's not possible to line the chimney for use w/ our fireplace, because it wouldn't be up to code.

However, they offered the solution of installing a wood stove insert (Regency I2400) with a 6" liner (which would apparently be up to code, since it's an insert?). They are offering this for the same price that they quoted the initial lining job -- about $3,200, which originally included the installation of a new cleanout door (cutting the brick in back, smoke chamber, etc.)

They said normally they'd quote the Regency insert & lining job at $5,200, but they just want to offer us a solution instead of walking away from the job entirely (which is understandable, because they had already sent a crew out for the first job, which ultimately cost them time/money).

SO, my question to you folks is:
- How does all of this sound to you?
- Does it sound right there is no solution for lining the chimney for our current fireplace?
- Does the Regency stove insert seem like a good alternative? I realize it would be much more efficient, heating-wise. Just a little bummed about not being able to preserve the fireplace as-is.

FYI, we are in Central PA (Lancaster/Harrisburg area). House built in 1921.

Thank you in advance!

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

others will chime but they wanted to put a rectangular liner in but could not and now want to put round in correct?

if that's the case that's what mfgs would recommend anyway for proper operation. Most are 6" and 8", 3200.00 seems pretty darn high to me for just a liner install and even the complete install for that matter.

 

[begreen]

Greetings and welcome. It sounds like you are getting some correct advice. Going to an insulated stainless liner with a fireplace insert will be safer and much more effective at heating while still providing a nice fire view. Regency is a fine brand. If interested, there are several other makes to consider and many models out there. Some are very stylish. But the i2400 is well liked and by reports here a strong heater if you make that choice. FYI, the Hampton 300i is the Regency i2400 with a much fancier and handsome castiron front.

The cleanout door is not necessary and an overkill expense for an insert. When you want to clean the liner one just pulls the baffle and cleans with the ash dumping in the insert's firebox. IMO, a damper sealing block off plate is going to be of higher value to you as the home owner. Ask the installer to separate the price for a direct-connect, insulated, stainless liner with a damper block-off plate from the cost of the insert.

 

[USMC80]

Begreens right, a wood burning fireplace is too inefficient. Go with the liner and an insert, they are giving sound advice. And as said above you won't need a cleanout door

 

[BrotherBart]

Sounds like a good price and solution. The insert probably runs North of $2,000 so installed with a liner ain't bad at all at $3,200. Especially given the parts and labor they have already put into the job.

 

[webby3650]

$3200 for a Regency and a liner? I'd jump on that. The I2400 is a great stove!! If you wait around this price will be gone, never to return.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

I re-read and see my mistake. The stove and the liner and install seems to be a great deal!

 

[begreen]

Question, how large is the fireplace room and how open is this room to the rest of the house?

 

[sticks]

Sounds like a deal . I would not wait either.

 

[Grisu]

First of all, cudos to your chimney guys. I think they really made you a good offer with $3200 for the insert with complete install. For the price it is certainly worth considering but you also should know what you may get into. A fireplace is for ambiance not for heating. It is good for people who occasionally want to sit by a crackling fire but do not care about having the furnace running all the time. A fireplace insert is like a woodstove for heating while giving the possibility to watch the fire through the glass door. Most people here heat 24/7 in the winter with their stove. Doing that is of course more labor intensive: Even if you buy split wood, you still need to stack it outside for at least 1 year for drying, put it in a dry place/woodshed during the fall, and then carry it in and feed the stove 3 to 4 times a day if you want to keep it going full time. It is considerably cheaper than oil or propane even if you buy your wood (not so much compared with natural gas currently, however). If you do not mind scrounging, cutting and splitting the wood yourself you can sometimes save thousands of dollar every winter.

So the questions would be: What are your plans with the fireplace/insert? How often do you want to use it? Do you have room and time to process and dry the wood? Knowing that will result in much better recommendations. Btw. pics of your fireplace would also help.

 

[mellow]

If you choose to keep the fireplace open you might want to see if you have a supaflu dealer in your area, they specialize in refurbing older chimneys. http://www.supaflu.com/

As others have mentioned if you are OK with how the Regency insert will look then that is a good deal, if not there are other stoves and inserts that might fit the decor of your older home better, maybe work out a deal if you buy the insert/stove they will install it for a reduced price.

After all they should have run a camera down your flu beforehand due to its age, they would have seen the reduction, I would recommend this being done now anyway if you go with a stainless liner, insulated or not for peace of mind.

 

[blades]

Go with the liner and regency and the utility company will be out to replace your "Defective Metering devices". Believe it or not this really does happen.

 

[webby3650]

If you choose to keep the fireplace open you might want to see if you have a supaflu dealer in your area, they specialize in refurbing older chimneys. http://www.supaflu.com/

As others have mentioned if you are OK with how the Regency insert will look then that is a good deal, if not there are other stoves and inserts that might fit the decor of your older home better, maybe work out a deal if you buy the insert/stove they will install it for a reduced price.

After all they should have run a camera down your flu beforehand due to its age, they would have seen the reduction, I would recommend this being done now anyway if you go with a stainless liner, insulated or not for peace of mind.

It not very common to run a camera down the flue before a reline. You really can't see as much as you might think, and would be very,very,hard to see a slight reduction in flue size. If you already know it needs relined, not too much need for a camera inspection.
And with a SS insulated round liner? These companies have to charge to use the camera, all this would do is run up the price on an already expensive investment. I wouldn't wanna pay for it for no reason.

 

[mellow]

I disagree with this, my chimney is about the same size as the OP's, I sat down with the chimney sweep and watched the video as it was run down the chimney, I could see everything very clearly, any reduction would have been noticed. Now I am sure that this varies chimney to chimney, but my experience was I am glad I had payed the extra and had it done after having a chimney fire. Using a camera would also allow for tile condition checks as to if you need to insulate due to cracks.

 

[webby3650]

With tile, yes. But the OP has an unlined rectangular chimney.

 

[mellow]

Wouldn't the same rules apply to a unlined chimney? If mortar is missing between joints wouldn't that default it to an insulated liner by code?

 

[webby3650]

I thought we were talking about running a camera for no reason, just as a standard, even if you plan on using an insulated liner? You lost me.

 

[mellow]

Always a reason to run a camera down, even if installing an insulated liner, to check the condition of the interior chimney. But that would be a homeowner decision if they want to pay the extra for the piece of mind to know they have a sound chimney. A liner won't hold up a crumbling chimney.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

This company has now brought you to a whole new world of burning, an insert vs an inefficient fire place are worlds apart, you will be wanting to use it as much as possible once you get going with it. That being said, I have no idea if it is a good deal or not BUT, you now must learn all you possible can about several different inserts, I would not settle for just what they are recommending, you will be making a big purchase so please do research on other brands, what other stoves do they sell? I know you want to give them the business but my point to you is, just don't settle for what they say....make a list of what is important to you, if it is only ambiance then dont go overboard with a big one, what size is the room that it is going in? many questions must be answered before the purchase...research and gl....and get wood.....

 

[webby3650]

A liner won't hold up a crumbling chimney

You are right, a liner has nothing to do with the structural integrity of a chimney. A visual inspection of the exterior is required to see if it's structurally sound, a camera is used to see if the flue or flue liner is usable.
When an insulated liner is installed, this new flue is replacing the old flue. The chimney is now acting as a chase for the liner, assuming the liner is insulated. There is simply no reason to have a Chimscan done if an insulated liner is being installed anyway. It's kinda like having the fireback in the fireplace rebuilt, before you put in a new insert. If it makes you feel better about it, then that's fine, but some folks are on a budget and they should know that it's not necessary.

 

[webby3650]

This company has now brought you to a whole new world of burning, an insert vs an inefficient fire place are worlds apart, you will be wanting to use it as much as possible once you get going with it. That being said, I have no idea if it is a good deal or not BUT, you now must learn all you possible can about several different inserts, I would not settle for just what they are recommending, you will be making a big purchase so please do research on other brands, what other stoves do they sell? I know you want to give them the business but my point to you is, just don't settle for what they say....make a list of what is important to you, if it is only ambiance then dont go overboard with a big one, what size is the room that it is going in? many questions must be answered before the purchase...research and gl....and get wood.....

I agree, if for some reason you don't care for the I2400, I'm sure they will work with you on something else.
But, I promise you this, you will love the I2400. It is the nicest burning insert I have ever been around. A good friend of mine has one. He heats a 2,000 square foot ranch from the far end, 24/7. It has a great fire! One impressive thing to me is that it runs really well on just one piece of wood at a time! During the day, after the coals are established he just tosses a piece at a time in, it's beautiful!

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

He didn't say it was an insulated liner, just a 6" ss.
If they do the job for regular price of $5200. Then they are ripping people off. I would call another Regency dealer nearby and get a quote. I saw a price of $1800 on the Internet from a couple years back, I saw a price of $2420, but no indication of a liner with that. A liner kit goes for $600, the rest goes to install and profit. So there is no way they are selling and installing for $5200. A top of the line lopi, ok

 

[Dave A.]

If you're running a 6" (or 8") SS liner in an untiled (or damaged/cracked tiled) masonry chimney, it's my understanding that insulation for the SS liner is required/mandatory. Insulating the liner also gets you a UL approval for the install (my understanding) and a more favorable viewpoint from most home insurance companies

The block off plate is also important and beneficial.

Also, if you're putting in a wood stove insert, you should determine whether you're putting in the correctly sized one for your house and climate. Regency is a good brand and the 2400 is about mid ranged in size, the i3100 is larger and might work better for you How large is your house and where is the chimney located (interior or on an outside wall).

I realize you're probably not planning on heating the house with this insert at this time. But you may find that after a season or two of using the insert that may change. So it may pay off in the long run to consider now the capability of the insert you put in to fully heat the house.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

I was curious so I called for a quote, I got $2200 plus a liner kit of $600, so $3200 is a fair price installed

 

[webby3650]

If they do the job for regular price of $5200. Then they are ripping people off

This a very normal price for a stove, liner and installation.

A liner kit might be got for $600, but no company will come out and do all the work for that. Not one that will be around very long anyway. You should expect to pay around $1500 for a liner installed. Some Heath stores are able to do better if a stove was also purchased.