Deciding on Fireview or Progress Hybrid

[Havendalefarm]

New Here. Been lurking for some time now. Been reading all I can on these two stoves and still having trouble deciding. We have an old farmhouse, about 2200 sq. ft., that we have gutted and insulated and have heated entirely with wood since we moved here in 1996.We have no back up and don't see the need as it is a working farm(dairy 1999-2009 now back to beef). We currently run two stoves when temps are below freezing and will be moving the Dutchwest that is our primary stove now into the secondary spot and replacing it with one of the Woodstocks. Obviously we are burning at least one stove 24/7 from late October through the middle of April.Our primary stove is near the middle of the house on a central masonary chimney that we will be putting rigid ss liner in with new stove. No problems with it now but just for more piece of mind. Thinking that the PH might have us using second stove less but even the Fireview is bigger than our Dutchwest. Ashpan doesn't really matter as we have found the Dutchwest performs better for us with a steel plate covering the grates anyway.This will be our first brand new stove, we're yankee farmers, and I would like it to be our last. Just a little concerned about some of the troubles I read about with the PH and the Fireview has a proven record. Would welcome comments from those with experiance with either, or both, as I see there are many Woodstock owners on here.

 

[ddddddden]

Welcome, Havendale. You didn't say how well you insulated/sealed the old farmhouse, nor where it's located. Well, okay, you dropped a hint, Yankee. . .
The usable space in the firebox of the Fv is 1.8 cu ft. I love the Fv, but if we weren't located in the tropics, it would not be enough stove for us. However, this place is only insulated to a tropical standard. How much stove you need is relative to many factors, but offhand, I'd say go for the PH and, like you said, use your second stove less. . .maybe eventually sell it to help offset the extra cost of the PH. FWIW, I think most of the kinks have now been worked out of the PH.

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/sale/134--owners-sale)
Save a few hundred more off the regular sale.

 

[PapaDave]

Welcome to the Hearth, Havendalefarm.
I'm sure Dennis, rideau, Waulie, or any number of other WS users will be along in a while to give some advice.
The Fireview might be ok if it's not to be used for the whole house.
From reports here, the PH is very controllable and would give more heat if needed. I'd love to have one, but it's probably too much for our place.
What's the layout like?

 

[rideau]

Over 2000 square feet, I don't think there is any question: go for the PH.

The Fireview is a lovely, efficient and impressive stove, but it is designed to heat a home of 900 to 1600 square feet. While it will heat some homes that are quite a bit larger than that, there is no need to challenge it, when Woodstock has the PH, designed to easily handle 2200 square feet (how's that for a coincidence?). If you aren't too drafty, and the home isn't extremely cut up, it will likely comfortably heat your entire home. And it will use remarkably little wood to do so.

I bought one of the very first PHs, and was then and continue to be very grateful that Woodstock released the stove early, trying to get lots of stoves into real life scenarios, so they could quickly observe and correct any minor flaws. We were given great prices and a promise of free updates for our stoves, in exchange for being guinea pigs and reporting back to Woodstock about any issues that might arise. This was both a brand new stove, and a brand new type of stove. There have been a few minor issues, which Woodstock has worked hard to resolve quickly, but none that shut my stove down an any point. None that have involved the fundamental way the stove works. There have also been additions, like the cooktop, which Woodstock has made available to us as well at no charge. Woodstock has been there every minute of the way for us, and the entire experience has been enjoyable. Have come to "know" some great people who own the stoves, and had the pleasure of sharing learning experiences with them.

The stove is remarkable in its ability to burn automatically in either the cat or secondary mode, or a combination, in the manner which is most efficient at each and every stage of the burn. No user input needed, unless the user wants to change the fundamental nature of the burn (like from a low long burn to a fast high burn). Then just opening or shutting the air a bit accomplishes that. The stove is very responsive. It can be opened up in a moment, and shut down to a slow burn just as quickly. The stove is equally capable of simply taking the chill off a Spring of Fall evening, and of heavy duty heating when it is minus 25 F out. This stove will not heat you out of your home, nor will it leave you cold.


Were we starting again back in the Autumn of 2012, would I buy the stove then again? Or would I wait for the improvements to have been implemented prior to buying? No question at all, I would buy the stove Autumn 2012. I certainly would not hesitate to buy one now.

For the record, I heated with a Fireview before the PH. Still have the Fireview, sitting in state in the family room, not installed. Like it too much to give it up. But, although I heated with it as my sole heat source for a good number of years, it was too small for my home. We were chilly. We are not now. There is no reason for you to risk being chilly.

 

[Waulie]

Welcome!

Based on your description, I would definitely recommend the Progress. With that size house, the only way I'd consider the Fireview is if it's in a small stove room and your floor plan is all chopped up. In that case, you'd probably find more even temps running the Fireview and the Dutchwest than just running one stove. Even if that's the case, your can run the Progress low and not fill it full unless it's really cold. So really, no reason not to go for the Progress.

Don't worry too much about the issues that have been reported. Like Rideau says, none or them have been major and really only a few folks have had issues. Keep in mind, we're a bunch of crazy stove nuts around here so we like to discuss and debate every little thing. It can make small things seem bigger than they are. The initial cat problem has been fixed. The initial screen problem (which everybody had ) of no good way to clean it has been fixed to an extent. The new screen is easy to clean but is prone to sagging after a while. They're working on a better fix, and I'm sure they'll fix it. It's really not a big deal. Just give it a quick bend once in a while. The new cat clogging issue seems to affect only a very small number of folks and I suspect it's due to the current screen setup combined with unique drafts. The mysterious smoke smell that some report? I have no idea. I don't have it and the majority don't either. That would be the only issue that would potentially give me pause just because it would really stink (groan) to have that problem. What the heck, though. You'll get a 6 month trial. You have nothing to lose and I'm sure Woodstock will get to the bottom of that issue for the folks that do have it as well.

In case you couldn't tell, I really do love my stove! We've had a long, cold winter here and I've been loading my stove twice a day for almost the whole winter. House temps never vary more than about 4 degrees! The huge mass of the stove and all that stone really does make for a nice even heat. I'm sure the Fireview does too, but I'm also sure the Progress has something the Fireview doesn't and that's some amazing firepower when you need it (and you no doubt will).

Good luck!

 

[Todd 2]

Hi Havendale, and welcome, I have the PH and yes there have been some issues however, Woodstock has been working with us beyond any customer service I have ever seen or experienced. The issues have not been what you call deal breakers to me, I would call them bugs to be worked out and I think some of mine might be due to my install and use. I will say once you have experienced soapstone heat it is really nice. One of my favorite things about soapstone is when you don't make it home on time to fire the stove it is still hot and putting out heat with the fire out.
I heat 2000 sq ft ranch (lower than average insulation) with the PH in the basement and it was never under 80 deg down there all winter to keep the upstairs 72-73. We like 75-76 so if I decide to send the PH back still under warranty it will be because I would like to have 2 Fire Views with the upstairs a new install with one. I have talked about other stoves for a new install upstairs but when it comes right down to it I'm hooked on soapstone and Woodstocks customer service period. Plus with 2 smaller stoves I should be able to control my heat spread alot better.
The PH will put the heat out, and as far as to what size you would go with it sounds like the PH would do you the best because of its wide range of BTU output and your central stove location, you may never use the backup stove.
IMHO, dont let the issues detour you, most of them have been solved and there are many users of Woodstock stoves on here with no problems at all.
My best advise, might wait till the fall sale, bugs will be gone, and you will have 6 months risk free to use and decide. Odds are you just might like what the rest of us Woodstock owners love.

Todd2

 

[rideau]

Not sure the Fall sale price will be quite as good as the price now.

You could ask woodstock if they could extend the warranty if you buy the stove now, since we are out of the burning season. Their intention is for you to be able to use the stove to make sure you like it and it works for you. They are reasonable folks, easy to discuss things with them. You'll be comfortable talking with them.

 

[ddddddden]

You could ask woodstock if they could extend the warranty if you buy the stove now, since we are out of the burning season. . .

Done.

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/sale/134--owners-sale)

• PLUS...6 MONTH BUY BACK!
We’re extending our 6 Month Buy Back Guarantee till the end of 2013! Use your new stove till the end of 2013. Not delighted? We will buy back your stove at the price you paid, and pay the return shipping.

 

[Havendalefarm]

Thanks for the input. You have confirmed what we were fairly certian about .Our house is faily well insulated and we have a pretty open floor plan except for the upstairs bedrooms. In fact the only door on the whole first floor is on the bathroom. That is how the wife wanted it when we remodeled and one of the advantages of the old timber framed structure, pre civil war old growth oak with almost no interior load bearing. The room the stove is in is completely open, about 500 square feet with nine foot ceilings and a ceiling fan which is almost right over the stove. We are in CNY and I can look from the upstairs windows and see Lake Ontario to the North about two miles away. So yes, we get some cold wind and at times A LOT OF SNOW.
I think we will take my two youngest daughters and make the five hour trip to the Woodstock factory and pick up one of the refurbished PH stoves. They told me they come with all the updates and from the sounds of things they would not let something less than "good as new" out the door. I am not the least bit concerned about the return for once that 700 pound beast gets put in place it will not be moving again.
It would be nice if we didn't have to run the other stove much and if we burnt less wood. We cut wood to sell so not much less work but a little more to sell and less to carry in the house.
Looking forward to our first, and last I hope, brand new(almost) wood stove, and our first stove with a view of the fire. Our Dutchwest has the steel plates where the windows would be and I never even considered changing it back as I saw the coals right up against the doors. I realy like the andirons on the Woodstock for this reason.
I will take some pictures and post them when we install it later this spring.

 

[raybonz]

Thanks for the input. You have confirmed what we were fairly certian about .Our house is faily well insulated and we have a pretty open floor plan except for the upstairs bedrooms. In fact the only door on the whole first floor is on the bathroom. That is how the wife wanted it when we remodeled and one of the advantages of the old timber framed structure, pre civil war old growth oak with almost no interior load bearing. The room the stove is in is completely open, about 500 square feet with nine foot ceilings and a ceiling fan which is almost right over the stove. We are in CNY and I can look from the upstairs windows and see Lake Ontario to the North about two miles away. So yes, we get some cold wind and at times A LOT OF SNOW.
I think we will take my two youngest daughters and make the five hour trip to the Woodstock factory and pick up one of the refurbished PH stoves. They told me they come with all the updates and from the sounds of things they would not let something less than "good as new" out the door. I am not the least bit concerned about the return for once that 700 pound beast gets put in place it will not be moving again.
It would be nice if we didn't have to run the other stove much and if we burnt less wood. We cut wood to sell so not much less work but a little more to sell and less to carry in the house.
Looking forward to our first, and last I hope, brand new(almost) wood stove, and our first stove with a view of the fire. Our Dutchwest has the steel plates where the windows would be and I never even considered changing it back as I saw the coals right up against the doors. I realy like the andirons on the Woodstock for this reason.
I will take some pictures and post them when we install it later this spring.

With your climate and area to be heated the PH is definitely the stove for you.. The secondary burn fireshow on the PH is simply awesome! Make sure you have well seasoned dry wood and you'll be a happy farmer Welcome to the forum and when you have a chance post some pics of your setup and location because we love pics!

Ray

 

[rideau]

+First stove with a window!

You're going to LOVE the PH.

Have fun!

 

[Flamestead]

I have no regrets about getting the PH, but I do wonder about the long-term picture. I'm coming from a pre-EPA background of steel box with no gaskets, no cat, no glass... in other words, no maintenance and a stove one could picture lasting 40+ years. Clearly these new stove are much more bother, and parts of the stove will need to be replaced over time.

On the plus side, my chimney says this is a very efficient stove (based on flue temp and how clean it stays). If they had built the PH and then the Fireview, there is no way they would have chosen the name Fireview - maybe Fireglimpse or Firepeek in comparison to the PH. The range of heat is wonderful. The PH is much less gaudy (some might say ornate) than the Fireview. The typical reaction of people who see it burning in our house is "Wow" (same word I used when I saw another long-burning stove on this site, different inflection). I love the ash pan.

I expect we will have a Fireview as a second stove within a year or two, although the bothersome BrowningBAR put a wrinkle in that plan by suggesting a second PH. Sigh.

 

[Highbeam]

Currently you're burning two stoves with one being the DW? You need more firepower than the fireview. PH from Woodstock fits the bill.

 

[Cross Cut Saw]

We love our Progress Hybrid!

 

[fire_man]

My FIreview struggled to heat 2300 sq ft in Northern MA. The PH burns longer and heats better with about the same amount of wood. It's a pleasure to operate (as was the FV). There were small bugs, but the company is top notch and second to none in customer service. I have an original early model stove (even has a prototype ash-lip for improved hearth clearance) and I am thrilled with it's performance.

I felt like I actually helped in the late-stage development of this fantastic stove - and it's all because Woodstock really cares about what works well for the "customer", rather than what works for "shareholders". They stuck to the old fashion belief that if you build something right and give the customer what it wants, the customer is happy and the company thrives.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Thanks for the input. You have confirmed what we were fairly certian about .Our house is faily well insulated and we have a pretty open floor plan except for the upstairs bedrooms. In fact the only door on the whole first floor is on the bathroom. That is how the wife wanted it when we remodeled and one of the advantages of the old timber framed structure, pre civil war old growth oak with almost no interior load bearing. The room the stove is in is completely open, about 500 square feet with nine foot ceilings and a ceiling fan which is almost right over the stove. We are in CNY and I can look from the upstairs windows and see Lake Ontario to the North about two miles away. So yes, we get some cold wind and at times A LOT OF SNOW.
I think we will take my two youngest daughters and make the five hour trip to the Woodstock factory and pick up one of the refurbished PH stoves. They told me they come with all the updates and from the sounds of things they would not let something less than "good as new" out the door. I am not the least bit concerned about the return for once that 700 pound beast gets put in place it will not be moving again.
It would be nice if we didn't have to run the other stove much and if we burnt less wood. We cut wood to sell so not much less work but a little more to sell and less to carry in the house.
Looking forward to our first, and last I hope, brand new(almost) wood stove, and our first stove with a view of the fire. Our Dutchwest has the steel plates where the windows would be and I never even considered changing it back as I saw the coals right up against the doors. I realy like the andirons on the Woodstock for this reason.
I will take some pictures and post them when we install it later this spring.

Welcome to the forum Havendalefarm. Both my wife and I come from dairy farm backgrounds so can relate to what you are doing.

I absolutely love the Fireview! Why?

1. It cut our wood needs in half.

2. It did this heating more space because we used to close off part of the house in the winter and still were not as warm as we'd like. In January-February we used to about freeze. Not so since installing the fireview!

3. So we cut our wood needs in half, heat more space and keep the house warmer. That is, we keep our house 80+ degrees all winter and the temperature does not vary much at all.

4. We've cleaned our chimney once since we've installed it and then it didn't need the cleaning as we got only about a cup of soot and no creosote.

5. That stove is beautiful!

When Woodstock announced the Progress, I wanted it. Went so far as to order the stove too. However, we had to cancel because we too added insulation, put in new windows and doors. Even added a room. Now for sure that Progress would have cooked us so we cancelled the order. But, there is a new stove in the works too so who knows?! Bad thing for use as it will be larger than the Progress!


It sounds like you have an ideal situation for either stove. If you plan on running 2 stoves, then I'd advise the Fireview. If you get the Progress though, you very well might find yourself using only one stove.

Going to the factory is a great idea! You will be met with open arms and will get a tour of the factory. I've not met anyone yet who has not been impressed after visiting there. All the people are very nice; everyone there.

Now if you look at the list I made about the Fireview, know that the Progress is even better except I still prefer the looks of the Fireview. One of the best things is what Tony mentioned and that he is burning about the same amount of wood in the Progress as he was the Fireview and getting a lot more heat. Sort of like we did when we went from the Ashley to the Fireview.

Good luck to you.

 

[Havendalefarm]

Thank You for all your input.The Dutchwest was a huge improvement over the massive 40" x 20" Kodiak Alaska stove that it replaced.( it now heats the machinery shop) I am looking forward to even more efficiency with the PH.

 

[mellow]

Since we are just about out of the burning season I would wait to look at the Union Hybrid.

http://woodstocksoapstoneco.blogspot.com/2013/02/wood-stove-design-challenge-finalist.html

 

[jeff_t]

Since we are just about out of the burning season I would wait to look at the Union Hybrid.

I was thinking that, too. "a self-regulating air/fuel ratio for maximum output and efficiency." would be huge if it works like a BK thermostat, capable of long, low burns as well as a high max output.

Woodstock's buy back program is unparalleled in almost any consumer market, and you could send the PH back if it doesn't do the job. Sending a stove back because you want the new one, however, seems wrong to me.

Woodstock had a killer intro price on the PH. It was $2400, IIRC.

 

[rideau]

I keep wondering if this "self-regulating air-fuel ratio" isn't what we already have in the PH. It's exactly what the PH does, in a way: burns in cat or secondary mode, or both, depending on which method of burning is most efficient at any given time, for the most efficient burn at any given primary air setting. Maybe they are adding a thermostat on top of tht that will open and close the primary air source automatically. Personally, I'd prefer NOT to have that on the PH. I don't believe one would have the same control over burn time that one has, and the stove heats just fine as is. I like to be able to choose whether to open the air near the end of the burn for more heat and faster coal burn down, or just leave as is because I'll be out or asleep and don't care if the home cools off a degree or two or three. I'd rather be my own fine tune thermostat and use slightly less wood, when its personally appropriate for me. The PH heats well enough now to heat the home with very little temperataure fluctuation.

 

[Highbeam]

You don't want to get too fancy with a woodstove. The market just doesn't demand it and the market will punish the manufacturer for a failure prone gadget. Honestly, the BK stat is about as techy as you would want. I wonder if it isn't a big joke, I mean really, "air/fuel ratio adjustment" is just the draft setting and "self regulating" implies an automation of this draft setting. So it would appear that WS is going to great lengths to avoid using the word thermostat.

 

[Havendalefarm]

Personally I don't want to be able to just, "set it and forget it" too much with an indoor woodstove. It is a fire burning inside the house, I want to check on it once in a while. Used to see the old stoves with the bi-metal spring thermastat that just burned up all the coals when the fire got down. Now I am sure newer stoves do this better but if I can't or won't check the fire once in a while then maybe wood isn't the answer. Keep it simple, durable, and easy and cost effective to maintainand repair. The old Kodiak was great in that dept. but something about the whole big armload of wood getting put in it several times a day just got old, and if you close that type of stove down too much its just a creasote filled mess.

 

[rideau]

You don't want to get too fancy with a woodstove. The market just doesn't demand it and the market will punish the manufacturer for a failure prone gadget. Honestly, the BK stat is about as techy as you would want. I wonder if it isn't a big joke, I mean really, "air/fuel ratio adjustment" is just the draft setting and "self regulating" implies an automation of this draft setting. So it would appear that WS is going to great lengths to avoid using the word thermostat.

The PH does "self-regulate" by burning in which ever mode is more fuel efficient, and it doesn't do it by changing the draft setting. While the new stove MAY include a thermostat (Ihave no idea), I'm sure it also self-regulates the burn type for ultimate efficiency, since the PH already does do so. So my take would be that you are NOT just seeing an avoidance of the term "thermostat".

Anyway, re this post, it appears Havendalefarm feels pretty much the way I do about burning. I see no reason for him, with his size home, to wait for the new stove and be slightly into the next burn season, assuming the release IS the end of October AND that there isn't already a wait list. The PH is a beautiful, efficient stove and should heat his home nicely.

 

[raybonz]

The PH does "self-regulate" by burning in which ever mode is more fuel efficient, and it doesn't do it by changing the draft setting. While the new stove MAY include a thermostat (Ihave no idea), I'm sure it also self-regulates the burn type for ultimate efficiency, since the PH already does do so. So my take would be that you are NOT just seeing an avoidance of the term "thermostat".

Anyway, re this post, it appears Havendalefarm feels pretty much the way I do about burning. I see no reason for him, with his size home, to wait for the new stove and be slightly into the next burn season, assuming the release IS the end of October AND that there isn't already a wait list. The PH is a beautiful, efficient stove and should heat his home nicely.

I believe HB was referring to the new stove WS is making which regulates temps.. The PH doesn't adjust air it is all manual.. The Union model is a different animal and there is some info at the WS site in the blog..

Ray

 

[Highbeam]

The PH does "self-regulate" by burning in which ever mode is more fuel efficient, and it doesn't do it by changing the draft setting.

I've read this from you a couple of times and I don't understand. You imply that there is some sort of switch happening between cat and non-cat "mode" where I do not see any sort of switching mechanism and certainly none that is automatic. Instead, I see a non-cat stove with a cat working together all the time to produce low emissions and high efficiency. If the non-cat part of the combustion is complete then there may not be any food left for the cat. It's not any sort of active regulation just a hybrid combustion system, but both technologies all the time.

Is there a switch in there?