Enviro Milan wont stay lit - Burn pot full of pellets

[hearthtools]

I think there is a very small hole in the ash pan or near the heat exchanger not sure on that unit
I have only sold one of the steel model.

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Glad to see you have the new trouble shooting being to link my Google drive one for others

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[md2002]

Watch the motor
If you see the armature trying to feed but not rotating gear box for full feed time then bad.
If it feeds as soon as power is charged to auger you are good.


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Ok, I tried doing this and to be honest I didn't see it move much at all but pellets were falling the entire time. I had a mirror and was looking from above and I can't tell how to know if this is the issue. Once in a while the auger would hit the little bumpers (slightly moving) but that's the only movement I saw.

I'm really not sure what to look for.

 

[md2002]

Here's the latest. I called the place I bought the new combustion motor from and explained how loud the stove was since I installed the new motor. He told me to look at the propellers because sometime they get crushed in the box. Sure enough, I took out the blower and the propellers were crooked, very crooked! I mean one side was incredibly slanted, I adjusted that and the stove is not loud anymore, it took care of that. I was hoping that would solve the problem but it didn't.

This time around I did notice that while the stove was lit about 30 minutes. The left side had much hotter air coming out of it than the right side of the stove. The heat exchange was much hotter on the left side too (I touched it) whereas the right side of the stove the heat exchanger was barely warm at all, it was more cold than warm. Not sure if this is a clue to anything but basically the air coming out of the left side of the stove is much hotter than the right side.

I'm getting the meter tomorrow. I'll let you know what vacuum reading is.

 

[hearthtools]

Here's the latest. I called the place I bought the new combustion motor from and explained how loud the stove was since I installed the new motor. He told me to look at the propellers because sometime they get crushed in the box. Sure enough, I took out the blower and the propellers were crooked, very crooked! I mean one side was incredibly slanted, I adjusted that and the stove is not loud anymore, it took care of that. I was hoping that would solve the problem but it didn't.

This time around I did notice that while the stove was lit about 30 minutes. The left side had much hotter air coming out of it than the right side of the stove. The heat exchange was much hotter on the left side too (I touched it) whereas the right side of the stove the heat exchanger was barely warm at all, it was more cold than warm. Not sure if this is a clue to anything but basically the air coming out of the left side of the stove is much hotter than the right side.

I'm getting the meter tomorrow. I'll let you know what vacuum reading is.

Watch the part labeled
copper cylinder
The coil will charge it to turn it will move up or down and spin then turn the gear box but bad motors the cylinder will just move a little and not spin for the first half a second or so.

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[md2002]

Watch the part labeled
copper cylinder
The coil will charge it to turn it will move up or down and spin then turn the gear box but bad motors the cylinder will just move a little and not spin for the first half a second or so.
[

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From what I can see it seems fine, it seems like as soon as I hear the Auger start the little thing starts to spin, doesn't seem to be a delay

 

[md2002]

I went up to the roof and checked the cap, that is clear and it's not the problem.

I got the Magnehelic guage and measured per the manual instructions, I'm not sure this is going to help. Manual says low flame it should be at .09 - .10 and high flame should be .12 - .13. On setting 3 it was at the .09 - .10 range but then I turned it up to the high setting and the measurement dropped it went down to .07 - .08 instead of going up per the manual it went down. I was really confused! So I turned the air all the way up for about 10 minutes and the gauge went up to .22 and above, after 10 minutes I lowered the air to the normal setting I have it at. After this little exercise the high setting was now reading .12 - .13 just as the manual says it should and the #3 setting was showing at .10 - .11 where is was showing at .09 - .10 before I kicked up the air for 10 minuted.

Basically once I cranked the air flow for 10 minutes things started reading normally.

The low setting was showing the same as the #3 setting

The .09 pic is the #3 setting I got originally, and the .13 pic was what the high setting was showing, I thought I would add these in case I was doing something wrong.

I'm at the end. I'm thinking at this point it may be the boards, perhaps the combustion blower isn't running at full speed because the board isn't doing it's job. None the less, I think I need to start replacing parts. It's the only thing I have left to do.

I should mention that the kid who let me borrow the meter told me to plug it into the positive tube on the meter, there's positive and negative connection at the top.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[hearthtools]

I went up to the roof and checked the cap, that is clear and it's not the problem.

I got the Magnehelic guage and measured per the manual instructions, I'm not sure this is going to help. Manual says low flame it should be at .09 - .10 and high flame should be .12 - .13. On setting 3 it was at the .09 - .10 range but then I turned it up to the high setting and the measurement dropped it went down to .07 - .08 instead of going up per the manual it went down. I was really confused! So I turned the air all the way up for about 10 minutes and the gauge went up to .22 and above, after 10 minutes I lowered the air to the normal setting I have it at. After this little exercise the high setting was now reading .12 - .13 just as the manual says it should and the #3 setting was showing at .10 - .11 where is was showing at .09 - .10 before I kicked up the air for 10 minuted.

Basically once I cranked the air flow for 10 minutes things started reading normally.

The low setting was showing the same as the #3 setting

The .09 pic is the #3 setting I got originally, and the .13 pic was what the high setting was showing, I thought I would add these in case I was doing something wrong.

I'm at the end. I'm thinking at this point it may be the boards, perhaps the combustion blower isn't running at full speed because the board isn't doing it's job. None the less, I think I need to start replacing parts. It's the only thing I have left to do.

I should mention that the kid who let me borrow the meter told me to plug it into the positive tube on the meter, there's positive and negative connection at the top.

Thanks for all the help!

Did you check combustion voltage for each setting
Should step up voltage on each h from low to high.


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[hearthtools]

Did you check combustion voltage for each setting
Should step up voltage on each h from low to high.


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Check the exhaust blower voltage
across the blower wires. Set the meter
to AC volts and place one probe to each
wire of the fan. Normally it is equal to
or greater than 114V on #5 setting and
equal to or greater than 82V on #1
setting (refer to Figure 37).

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[md2002]

Check the exhaust blower voltage
across the blower wires. Set the meter
to AC volts and place one probe to each
wire of the fan. Normally it is equal to
or greater than 114V on #5 setting and
equal to or greater than 82V on #1
setting (refer to Figure 37).

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I did this once already but I'm going to try it again. When I did it the 1st time (if I did it right) It was a consistent 114 v from setting 1 to setting 5. Once it ran for awhile it got up to 116 and during shutdown it got up to about 118v. Again. I'm not sure I did it right. I'm going to read the manual more carefully and try it again. It definitely never got down to 84v.

I assume it doesn't matter what wire goes to what probe. Manual doesn't specify either.

So I think I did it wrong. The pic in the manual looks like a need a Y connector to measure. When I did it I just unplugged the exhaust fan and plugged the connectors directly into the voltage meter that are coming from the board, there was nothing connecting back to the fan when I did it.

 

[Overfireinthehole]

At this point, I’d take the stove outside and blow it out and then try to run it outside without any pipe to restrict it. Also, vacuum readings should be in - pressure. I have a different gauge then that one but on mine you hook up to the negative port for negative pressure, not positive.

 

[md2002]

I set up he voltage meter and tested the exhaust fan. My readings weren't exactly what the manual says but they did go up. #1 89V, #2 95, #3 98, #4 107, #5 116. While the stove was starting up it was at a steady 114v on setting 3. The issue is the manual I have (and provided in this string) does not list my board, which is a DHC5501 - I searched and couldn't find a new manual so there's no way to tell if these reading are what I should be seeing. I plan on calling Enviro today because I've done everything I can do, short of taking it outside like others have suggested.

Here's the thing - the heat is still much hotter on the left side of the stove than the right side. Is there something that could be blocked? If I place my hand on the left side of the heat exchanger it HOT, it's luke warm on the right side, if I touch the inside of the hopper on the left side it's HOT the right side is cold. I even went so far as to touch the glass door, the left side is HOT the right side is luke warm. If you remember the right side of the burnpot is also where the pellets stop burning before the fire goes out. The left side of the burn pot the pellets are burning fine but eventually get's smothered. This must give a clue to what's wrong?

I may test the convection voltage today as well but the place I bought the stove from says it's highly unlikely that it's the convection fan. I'm calling Enviro today, I'm not sure what they can do but it's worth a shot. I'm just upset I bought a new exhaust fan and it doesn't seem like that's the issue.

Another thought. Could the stove think it's in thermostat mode and it's not? The manual says to "Remove jumper wire and install thermostat wire" I don't see a jumper wire there. Could it have fallen off somehow and that's the issue? Grasping at straws at this point.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[johneh]

Any unit from Enviro that I have worked on with out a stat had a jumper wire
That include up to 20017 M55 Move the switch to manual and install a jumper
See if it improves .
As to the stove being hotter on one side indicates to me that one side
is plugged with ash so that the hot exhaust is not going that way .
Sorry to sound like a broken record but something has not been cleaned

 

[md2002]

Any unit from Enviro that I have worked on with out a stat had a jumper wire
That include up to 20017 M55 Move the switch to manual and install a jumper
See if it improves .
As to the stove being hotter on one side indicates to me that one side
is plugged with ash so that the hot exhaust is not going that way .
Sorry to sound like a broken record but something has not been cleaned

It's either cleaned or I'm blind in one eye and can't see out the other. That being said, I'm going to take it apart again and clean.

Can I use any wire for the jumper wire?

 

[johneh]

Can I use any wire for the jumper wire?

Yes

 

[hearthtools]

Yes

Is the amber light flashing after 15 minutes is so then it is in non call for heat mode

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[stovelark]

On Milans and Empress inserts- if the heat is much more on the exh motor side of the heat exchanger, there is a flap that you can adjust in the attachment window that the convection blower mounts to. Its normally set to about 30 degrees to the right as you are looking at it. This is meant to adjust the air flow over the heat exchanger with the blower being offset to the left side of the back of the stove. I've seen this flap also cause weird noises from the convection blower too. With this problem you are chasing- wow! Never seen this problem- pellets aren't burning completely on the right side of the burnpot?? Means airflow through the burnpot liner isn't normal. Evewryone has hit on the commom problems....I'm perplexed. I do wonder tho, where is the air adjustment set? Is it all the way to the left, then back right about 1/4-1/2 inch? What pellets are you using? I heard YOU SAY flame wasn't much above the top of burnpot no matter what heat level setting- very unusual either airflow issue or bad pellets and/or cleanliness issue. Wished was there, this is an unusual one. Stay with it, she can be fixed. My Empress has been fantastic, she is a 2007 model. I've changed one convection blower, cause it got noisy... keep us informed too, will store this one.....

 

[md2002]

On Milans and Empress inserts- if the heat is much more on the exh motor side of the heat exchanger, there is a flap that you can adjust in the attachment window that the convection blower mounts to. Its normally set to about 30 degrees to the right as you are looking at it. This is meant to adjust the air flow over the heat exchanger with the blower being offset to the left side of the back of the stove. I've seen this flap also cause weird noises from the convection blower too. With this problem you are chasing- wow! Never seen this problem- pellets aren't burning completely on the right side of the burnpot?? Means airflow through the burnpot liner isn't normal. Evewryone has hit on the commom problems....I'm perplexed. I do wonder tho, where is the air adjustment set? Is it all the way to the left, then back right about 1/4-1/2 inch? What pellets are you using? I heard YOU SAY flame wasn't much above the top of burnpot no matter what heat level setting- very unusual either airflow issue or bad pellets and/or cleanliness issue. Wished was there, this is an unusual one. Stay with it, she can be fixed. My Empress has been fantastic, she is a 2007 model. I've changed one convection blower, cause it got noisy... keep us informed too, will store this one.....

Interesting, as you know the empress and enviro are the same stove accept for the face so this flap you're talking about is very interesting, I'll have to take the convection blower off and see what it looks like. Right now I'm working with Enviro and they gave me a couple of things to try but I still haven't figured out the issue. It still wont stay lit! They've asked me to clean the liner, fix a weld that was missing in the hopper chute (pic attached) and I used a drill bit on every hole in the burn pot liner to make sure the air is flowing. I continue to adjust the air flow, I've used a shop vac to blow into every hole in the stove and it got pretty messy but I've vacuumed and cleaned it like there's not tomorrow so I'm done vacuuming and started blowing the air out - still have the issue. There is obviously an airflow issue. I still need to check the voltage on the convection blower a 2nd time to rule that out.

As for your asks. Pellets - I've used Lignetics, LaCretes, LG Granulers and Vermonts and they all have the same issue no matter what I burn. My air adjuestment setting is pretty much what you stated above, all the way to the left and then to the right about 1/4 inch - I've played with this and still have the issue. I've played with the exhaust fan setting and trim rate setting a little more and still have the issue. The flame normally doesn't go above the burnpot but it does from time to time, not normal for the 1st 6 years I owned it.

I've attached vids and pics that can show you what an unusual problem I have. I'm going to check out this flap you talked about, hopefully it's there and it's the issue, even Enviro is stumped.

 

[md2002]

Video of the way it burns



(broken link removed to https://photos.app.goo.gl/vLyJHx9MsLDH9mcJ2)

(broken link removed to https://photos.app.goo.gl/RSe4OkWkT8NsdQHL2)

 

[Overfireinthehole]

Almost looks like too much airflow

 

[md2002]

Almost looks like too much airflow

That's what logic says but I've gone up and down the airflow ladder and I get the same results.

 

[hearthtools]

That's what logic says but I've gone up and down the airflow ladder and I get the same results.

OK looking at video it looks like the burn pot liner is not all the way down.
I can see the top air holes just above the burn pot holder.

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[hearthtools]

That's what logic says but I've gone up and down the airflow ladder and I get the same results.

The holes need to be in the burn pot holder so are is sucked through them

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[stovelark]

HT beat me to it- it does look like the burnpot liner isn't sitting down all the way- when it sits in the burnpot air comes in through the big pipe on the right and up through the liner holes. Could it be yours has distorted or something in the burnpot itself to keep air from dispersing into the burnpot liner as its supposed to? The convection blower flap is only for the uneven warm air being delivered into the room, not this burning issue... did you say you had a break in the droptube area? Could that affect air flow anyway coming into the burnpot and liner??

 

[md2002]

The holes need to be in the burn pot holder so are is sucked through them View attachment 225064

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Thanks, rhe Enviro folls noticed this too and I've already noticed this and made sure the burnpot was sitting all the way down. It still does the same thing. I never noticed this because the burn pot has been sitting like that for the 6 year's I've owned the stove with no issues.

 

[stovelark]

Was looking at the pix- did you take the air tube and ignitor tube cover out? That pix looks like stuff was removed after you took out the 3 cast pieces? It looks like an air flow issue, dark exhaust, carbon everywhere.. seems air is not being directed through the burnpot and liner correctly..