Feeback on my cracked Jotul insert please

[daninohio]

Attached are two pictures of my Jotul insert. It was installed last summer by a professional stove dealer along with a liner. I started running it in October and have been using it on and off (mostly on) since then. I've burned about three cords I'd guess. Tonight my wife noticed the two cracks shown in the pictures. After I thought about it I did hear it making some noises last night as it was cooling down, but I thought it was just the usual "pinging" type of noises that happen when it is heating or cooling.

I've always used a stove thermometer from the very first time I ran it, so I know that it has never gotten extremely hot. 99.9% of the time it has run between 400-600 degrees. Once or twice with some very dry wood back in November it got up to 700-800 or so before cooling down to normal but it has been quite a while since it got that hot (and I didn't even think that should have been a problem).

I just noticed it tonight so I haven't talked to anyone yet. (Right now my last fire is dying down.) I assume it is still covered under warranty since I've only had it since last July. So, I'm curious: (1) has anyone else had/seen this on the Jotul insert or any other cast iron stove, and (2) any thoughts on what I should expect the dealer/Jotul to do to rectify this?

Thanks.

 

[Gunner]

I can't find the crack in the second pic Dan. I sure hope you get it worked out tho!

 

[Hogwildz]

Thats a shame man. I hope warranty covers it. You didn't accidentally slam the door or smack that top area with a pc of wood?
Are you sire it hasn't over fired? I don't know alot about cast stoves, hopefully a few cast owners will come in.

 

[Hogwildz]

I can't find the crack in the second pic Dan. I hope you get it worked out man!

Its a couple inches from the right top door corner inward

 

[Gunner]

Oh man, I was looking for something smaller like the first one. Hard to tell what I was looking at.
+the beer googles are on

 

[Hogwildz]

Oh man, I was looking for something smaller like the first one. Hard to tell what I was looking at.
+the beer googles are on

Didn't yer mother ever teach you to share you stingy bastard?

 

[daninohio]

Nope, didn't hit it. It's been handled gently -- i.e. it's enamel and has no chips in it at all after a whole season.

I don't think I ever overfired it. In the pictures it may look white/grayish, but in person it looks "black." I think it's just looks that way because of the dust and my having to use a flash to take the picture.

Obviously, it's very disconcerting to have your $$$$ stove develop a couple cracks after one season of use.

 

[Hogwildz]

I suggest calling the dealer, emailing him those photos, and take it from there.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

definatly not normal. Could be a defect in the casting, or it got to hot. Either way call your dealer, that part looks like its replaceable. First one i have seen like that. Your not burning any scrap are you?

 

[BrotherBart]

Dan before the dealer comes out sit a level on top of that thing and see if they leveled it when it was installed.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

now theres a thought...

 

[Roospike]

Ya run a steamer on top of your stove Dan ?

EDIT: I just re-read its an insert ............so i guess that answers my question.

First thing i would do is call the dealer and go from there ....... Not sure how there put together but i hope it just an easy to replace piece and not the main cast.

 

[BrotherBart]

now theres a thought...

Yeah. I don't think enough attention is given to leveling stoves. If a steel or cast stove is "talking to you" too much heating up and cooling down it is trying to tell you something. If one corner is too high or too low that is putting a heck of a lot of torsional stress on the metal.

 

[elkimmeg]

It is my understanding Jotul has started making its stoves using gasket seams ,replacing the refractory joints.This allows of much easire repairs or replacement of parts
the refoctory joints could requiring almost total rebuilding after they are separated .Gasket joints with parts bolted together allows indivual parts replacement
without the need for rebuilding. There is a good chance that part is bolted in and ease of replacement is quite simple
Many stove companies are now using gasket jointing It makes field work so much easier..

Time to contact your dealer and get it replaced Let us know how things work out

 

[HalJason]

Both cracks seem to be in part '18' in the pic below. It _is_ one of the cast iron pieces, so it's entirely possible it's a defect in the casting.

Looks like this piece will be replaceable without _too_ much hassle.

-Hal

 

[daninohio]

Funny, HalJason, I was just staring at that picture before I called the dealer so I had some idea what to call the part. I can't tell for sure if both cracks are on that part, but maybe it is a single bad casting. Anyway, I called them and they are coming out next Tuesday to take a look. Hopefully they can make it right. We'll see how it works out but right now I'm pretty glad that *they* did the install so there aren't any issues with that.

As for whether it is level, all I can say offhand is that it sure looks level to the eyeball and "feels" level. I will check that though.

Also, no scrap burned. Just regular ol' seasoned firewood. I was a voracious reader of this forum for a couple years before I bought the stove so I know it can get too hot from burning loads of scrap b/c of the low MC. (And I got a stove thermometer before I started. And a metal ash can that I keep outside on concrete. And welders gloves (now those are an absolute necessity!). And I've been sharpening my chain saw chain with a hand file and not running it into the ground. Point being, I'm pretty darn careful and detail oriented so I really don't think this is something I caused.)

I will report back after they visit next week. Hopefully this is just one bad casting.

 

[HalJason]

Funny, HalJason, I was just staring at that picture before I called the dealer so I had some idea what to call the part. I can't tell for sure if both cracks are on that part, but maybe it is a single bad casting.

I was trying to figure that out myself, since I'm not at home now. I'm pretty sure they are both on the same piece, I believe it's the only cast iron piece in the vicinity (save for the doors).

Come to think of it, I can't think of any cast pieces except for that one, the doors, the ashlip, and the gizmo in the rear of the firebox that keeps the firebricks in (that I've seen, anyhow.. I haven't fully disassembled it )

-Hal

 

[daninohio]

Well, I just wanted to stop back and give kudos to my dealer.

They came out the next week, checked my warranty info with Jotul, ordered the part (took about a week and a half to arrive), scheduled the repair appointment for about one week later and got the job done in one day. It turned out to be one casted piece, so they just had to remove the front screws/bolts and replace it. The job it turned difficult when one set of screws stripped and they had to re-tap the holes. I wasn't thrilled about that, but oh well, stuff happens. Our weather turned cold again this week and now the insert is running again.

So, kudos to Vonderhaar Stoves in Cincinnati. I'm not thrilled about having a bad casting, but they certainly did what they could to make it right in a timely fashion. And reminded me why I had a dealer do the install in the first place.

FWIW, the repairman said it was the first time they've had to do warranty repair work on a Jotul insert.

 

[webbie]

I sold Jotul for 12 years and had about the number of problems that I can count on one hand.....

If I saw the thread earlier I would have confirmed that this is no doubt something that need replacement and is 100% under warranty. Cracks like this usually do occur quickly - as opposed to many years later. They are often stress cracks, indication a tension in the original casting or possibly a situation where this panel was fastened to another but too tightly (not enough wiggle room, then expansion and contraction = crack).

Glad your dealer is A-1. You can rest easy that a "repaired" cast stove is just as good as a new one, since the parts are completely separate.

 

[Fire Bug]

Jotul utilizes recycled scrap cast iron in their castings, could be they got a bad batch of Scrap Cast Iron when they poured it into the casting mold or have a bad defective mold which should show up with on more units than yours.

John

 

[webbie]

Jotul utilizes recycled scrap cast iron in their castings, could be they got a bad batch of Scrap Cast Iron when they poured it into the casting mold or have a bad defective mold which should show up with on more units than yours.

John

Highly unlikely at any foundry as the batches of iron are cooked up big and each is tested as the class (25, 30, etc.) - Also certain additives may be mixed in so that the alloy is even stronger or more heat resistant. Although it is surely possible, I have never heard of "bad iron" being the cause of cracks in american or european models.....some early models from Asia had funky iron, perhaps poured too cold, etc.

Most modern factories use ISO processes and computer controlled temperature measurement, etc - if they didn't, we'd have wheels falling off our cars!

Cracks in castings are usually the result of either design or assembly decisions....taking a door frame, it is possible that one part of the frame gets very hot, while another near the air chamber stays much cooler. Add that to some bolts and cement which may be too tight, and you can see how some expansion and contraction would lead to stress cracking.

Sometimes an improvement has been made in the replacement part and you don't even know it. Simple updates of molds, such as adding a stiffener or enlarging a channel, are always underway at foundries. The pattern and machine shops are always busy.

Bad molds are possible, but these foundries have the latest in automatic mold making equipment, which assures a high % of proper molds. In addition, the steps following the casting will usually expose any casting problems visually.

I'm gonna look close again, but I bet that the casting is perfectly formed and poured, but the crack resulted from stress of some kind due to expansion/contraction.

When I used to build cast stoves, we'd only tighten the bolts very slightly after assembly, and let the cement so the rest. A fancier setup should probably have torque wrenches or fixed setup on air tools.

 

[webbie]

Also, no scrap burned. Just regular ol' seasoned firewood. I was a voracious reader of this forum for a couple years before I bought the stove so I know it can get too hot from burning loads of scrap b/c of the low MC.

I will report back after they visit next week. Hopefully this is just one bad casting.

Yeah, looking at the casting you can see it is attached to various points on the stove - which may be pushing or pulling on it in many ways. It needs to have a lot of room to come and go - which could be a combo of gaskets, larger bolt holes, washers and making certain the screws are not tightened too much.

Glad it was resolved so quickly for you.