Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
612
N.H.
Chimney does extend past the roof line, not exactly sure how much, but it does. To prevent any smoke pulling via the pellet stove flue, which is almost the San height, I am installing a 18” extension. This will also help distance further from the roof line.

Since installing the SS liner, I have noticed more “puffs” from the stove. Both from the Ash clean out door and when opening the load door.

Example... yesterday around 5:30 I had split 2 splits down to 2”x2” and added to the center of the fire box. Kept the load door opened until my surface temp gauge read 500 and the fire was well underway. At 6:15 I had to bring my some to hockey and noticed nothing but clouds of smoke in the yard and down the road. When back into the house and very very slowly opened the load door. BOOM! The stove was so locked with smoke, the second I introduced air, instant backdraft. (Basement Door was opened and draft blower was running). After a day with the windows opened, the house was back to smelling like a campfire.

After 5 mins with the load door opened ~¼”, the surface temp read 500 and the fire was back to running normal.

Would be nice to have a draft setting for when loading. Basically Monitor the stove surface temperature once it reaches 500 close the draft slider back to 3/8 open.
 

Turd Ferguson

New Member
Jan 26, 2018
54
South Central MA
Chimney does extend past the roof line, not exactly sure how much, but it does. To prevent any smoke pulling via the pellet stove flue, which is almost the San height, I am installing a 18” extension. This will also help distance further from the roof line.

Since installing the SS liner, I have noticed more “puffs” from the stove. Both from the Ash clean out door and when opening the load door.

Example... yesterday around 5:30 I had split 2 splits down to 2”x2” and added to the center of the fire box. Kept the load door opened until my surface temp gauge read 500 and the fire was well underway. At 6:15 I had to bring my some to hockey and noticed nothing but clouds of smoke in the yard and down the road. When back into the house and very very slowly opened the load door. BOOM! The stove was so locked with smoke, the second I introduced air, instant backdraft. (Basement Door was opened and draft blower was running). After a day with the windows opened, the house was back to smelling like a campfire.

After 5 mins with the load door opened ~¼”, the surface temp read 500 and the fire was back to running normal.

Would be nice to have a draft setting for when loading. Basically Monitor the stove surface temperature once it reaches 500 close the draft slider back to 3/8 open.
I wonder if you crack the ash door prior to reloading if it will A) bring the stove back up to temperature which is important during a re-fuel, and B) flush all the smoke out of the chamber, making it impossible to have a backdraft.

With this shoulder weather, it's been hard for me to justify lighting the stove and I've been letting my heat pump handle what little heat demand I've had in the house. I need to do more extended experimentation.
 

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
612
N.H.
I wonder if you crack the ash door prior to reloading
Had been opening the ash door as it was a great way to get the stove upto temp quick. However started experiencing backdrafts “puffs” when reloading. Actually after lining the flue, I have had more "puffs" then before.

When the stove does backdraft “puff”, it's like a gun firing. Think outside temps play a large part into the backdrafts.

Weather is to nice today to fire up the stove.
 

Turd Ferguson

New Member
Jan 26, 2018
54
South Central MA
Had been opening the ash door as it was a great way to get the stove upto temp quick. However started experiencing backdrafts “puffs” when reloading. Actually after lining the flue, I have had more "puffs" then before.

When the stove does backdraft “puff”, it's like a gun firing. Think outside temps play a large part into the backdrafts.

Weather is to nice today to fire up the stove.
I know I have a difficult time getting a proper draft established when the outside temp is over 40. Takes forever to get the draft pulling hard enough and it dumps smoke out the front door something awful.

I'd be curious to see your draft measurements when you're having difficulty, or when you experience backdrafts. I'm sure it's nowhere near what it should be.
 

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
612
N.H.
Took advantage of the nice weather and updated both caps.

Extended the stoves flue 18”, which brings it to ~4.5’ above the roof line.

IMG_0051.JPG
 
  • Like
Reactions: JRHAWK9

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
612
N.H.
With the temps falling to 32 last night, I decided to run the stove. Started the fire around 7pm and refilled for the night at 11:15 with adding 4 medium size splits. To make sure the fire was going good, I left the clean out door opened till about 11:32, stove front surface temp reading 600 degrees. By 11:45 the stove nosedived to 400 degrees.

At 12:15, 1 hour after initial reloading, the following happened. (Thermostat was set to 78, wanted draft blower to run).

Should I assume 2 things went wrong? To much fuel added and stove was not hot enough?

 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,402
NE Ohio
I think you are cutting the air off too much, too fast. Having any of the doors open allows a TON of air to the fire...and then bam, you close the door and all the air it gets is from that little opening on the blower intake...too much too fast.
Even on a manually controlled wood stove if you close the primary air down too fast you'll get a poof...and that is a much smaller adjustment than what you are making by closing the door.
My personal opinion is you are leaving that door open waaaaaaaaay too long...the fire is getting too big and it is very difficult to dial that back in a controlled manner once the wood gets to off gassing that hard.
Use the door to just start the fire, and then close the door and let the blower provide the air...do this before the fire gets too large or hot.
My 2 cents...from my experience on other units...but certain principles apply to any stove/furnace
 
  • Like
Reactions: woodey and laynes69

Turd Ferguson

New Member
Jan 26, 2018
54
South Central MA
With the temps falling to 32 last night, I decided to run the stove. Started the fire around 7pm and refilled for the night at 11:15 with adding 4 medium size splits. To make sure the fire was going good, I left the clean out door opened till about 11:32, stove front surface temp reading 600 degrees. By 11:45 the stove nosedived to 400 degrees.

At 12:15, 1 hour after initial reloading, the following happened. (Thermostat was set to 78, wanted draft blower to run).

Should I assume 2 things went wrong? To much fuel added and stove was not hot enough?

Wow. That's not right, not by a long shot. What has FC said about it? Have you reached out to them?

I am going to run mine tonight- we will see what happens.
 

laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,446
Ashland OH
I'm with Bren, you're causing an abundance of smoke running with the door open like that. The chimney is the engine of the system, just let the design of the furnace work like it should. You should be able to load on coals and shut the door and turn on the draft blower. Within 10 minutes or less that load should be burning well. If not, I would question the quality of the wood (seasoned or not). That's if your draft is where it needs to be.
 

Turd Ferguson

New Member
Jan 26, 2018
54
South Central MA
I'm with Bren, you're causing an abundance of smoke running with the door open like that. The chimney is the engine of the system, just let the design of the furnace work like it should. You should be able to load on coals and shut the door and turn on the draft blower. Within 10 minutes or less that load should be burning well. If not, I would question the quality of the wood (seasoned or not). That's if your draft is where it needs to be.
Sounds like he has an excess of draft; I wouldn't be concerned about that.

FC has advised that we need to be hitting 600F+ on the front of the door. Most of us can't do that when starting except to leave the door open.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,402
NE Ohio
FC has advised that we need to be hitting 600F+ on the front of the door
Man, I'd question them on that...seems awful hot...my Tundra runs perfectly at 350*...different furnace and door I know, but still, we are talking external temps, internal will be WAAAAAAAY higher...just sounds a little overfire-ish to me...
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,402
NE Ohio
FC has advised that we need to be hitting 600F+ on the front of the door
I wonder if its possible they mean peak burn temp after you reload (door closed, blower running) Still seems high for an external temp...but would make more sense to me than getting it that hot with the door open...
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,231
Wisconsin Dells, WI
FWIW, before I installed the heat reclamation ducts on the front of mine when I could access that area with my infrared gun, I'd see 800°+ on the front face right above the door shortly after a re-load when running it hard. This is right where most of the gasification/blue fire ball happens on the Kuuma though. Internal firebox temps were right around the 1400° area, according to the TC mV reading being sent to the computer.
 
Last edited:

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
612
N.H.
Prior to the SS liner install, my draft would keep around 0.08. Now it bounces between 0.02 - 1.04, depending on if the door is opened, draft blower, blower, flue temp.

So.... when exactly should I measure the draft? Lots of videos on where to test and how to read, but none address when to actually measure.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,402
NE Ohio
Where and how are you checking it now?
You want to find out the draft pulling on the firebox itself...so you need to be as close to it as you can...if you have any dampers on the pipe you need to be between it and the furnace...and not right next to any elbows or anything.
Draft will always change depending on if the intake damper/draft blower is operating or any firebox/ash pan door is open. With a draft blower I bet your draft will vary more than with a "naturally aspirated" unit (as the draft blower kicks on/off)
 
Last edited:

maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
10,095
Nova Scotia
Prior to the SS liner install, my draft would keep around 0.08. Now it bounces between 0.02 - 1.04, depending on if the door is opened, draft blower, blower, flue temp.

So.... when exactly should I measure the draft? Lots of videos on where to test and how to read, but none address when to actually measure.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Should be measured when you're burning. With door closed of course. Blower (the HVAC one) should not impact draft - seems to me if it does there are other things going on. If you have draft that varies that much, sounds like you need a barometric damper. (I didn't read the whole thread, but assuming you don't have one?). Its purpose is to help maintain a steady draft, and limit over drafts. Example, from wind gusts. Did you post a pic of your manometer setup?
 

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
612
N.H.
This might be a dumb question, please don't hammer me for asking.

Assuming a reading of 0.04 is less of a draft pull then 1.04? Or does a 1.04 mean the chimney is trying to pull a draft, however there is not enough incoming air to allow the air flow? Basically creating a vacuum of pressure?
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,402
NE Ohio
Assuming a reading of 0.04 is less of a draft pull then 1.04?
Yes, this ^ ^ ^
The -0.13" you have there is sky high IMO...most run -0.04 to -0.06" I think somebody maybe said these units can go as high as -0.08"? You are headed toward double that...
 
  • Like
Reactions: sloeffle

Mrpelletburner

Minister of Fire
Jan 20, 2011
612
N.H.
Talked to the support folks over at FC (HY-C support is top notch). As I like to take the suggestions from this thread and make sure I am not voiding any warranty.

First, I have the green light to install a barometric damper. Second they asked if I could make a very slight adjustment to the draft blower. The adjustment allows more air into the fire box. Anyone's stove experiencing similar issues (flashbacks) should contact HY-C. As their support can walk you through the same process without voiding your warranty. HY-C did mention the next model up has a auto damper that controls air intake (wish I would've known that ;P ).

So far (1 night), the stove has not had a "flashback" (stove box or flue).


Just my 0.02$... purchasing the Nest HD camera and related 5 day subscription service has been so helpful with monitoring the stove. I can quickly review when I loaded the stove, any "flashbacks" or just seeing when the stove needs to be reloaded.

fullsizeoutput_40f4.jpeg
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,231
Wisconsin Dells, WI
-
Just my 0.02$... purchasing the Nest HD camera and related 5 day subscription service has been so helpful with monitoring the stove. I can quickly review when I loaded the stove, any "flashbacks" or just seeing when the stove needs to be reloaded.

View attachment 223880
I use a Foscam R2 to monitor various temps as well as furnace remotely while I'm at work. It's a bit cheaper.