Fireplace insert advice

[Copp312]

I'm looking to purchase a wood burning insert. I have very little knowledge on the quality of different brands and features. The following features are important to me:
1. heat a large area
2. quiet fan
3. large viewing area to see the fire.
4. little maintenance and long life expectancy

I have 5 rooms on the first floor (not counting a laundry area and bathrooms) and the fireplace is located on an outside wall in the family room (24x16) with 20 ft. ceiling. There are three bedrooms upstairs. Total living area above ground is around 3000 sq. ft. My house is all electric. The house is currently heated with two heat pumps/furnaces.

I don't know the exact dimensions of the fireplace but it looks fairly standard. Probably three plus feet wide, almost as high, and probably a little more than two feet deep.

Forgive my ignorance on the matter. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Lockpicker]

Enviro kodiak 1700. Large fire box, quiet fan, easy to use, rock solid, dollar for dollar the best stove for the money. I get 8 to 10 hour burns on a full load. Youll be hard pressed to find a bad review.

All of the above sold me and I couldnt be happier and I'm picky.

 

[Grisu]

Welcome to the forum!

It would be good to have more accurate measurements of the dimensions of the fireplace and potentially a picture. It sounds like it is fairly large and may be better suited for a stove than an insert. The inner dimensions of the chimney would also be good to know.

You have a large area to heat especially considering the raised ceiling. (Are there any ceiling fans?) There may not be one stove that can heat the entire house unless it is a newer construction and/or well insulated. Your home's layout will also determine how well the heat will travel around the house. You can post a floorplan for advice on moving the heat around.

While considering the best insert/stove choice it is at least as important to have plenty of dry wood with an internal moisture content of less than 20% available. That usually requires the wood to be split and stacked in a sunny and windy location for one to three years depending on the wood species. Although often advertised as seasoned, firewood for purchase rarely has been dried for more than a few months at best. Thus, how many cords do you have already sitting in your yard?

I am sure you will get plenty of good stove/insert options once you have posted that additional info.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like 3 cu ft insert territory unless the fireplace room is cut off from the rest of the house by doorways. Can you take the fireplace opening and rear measurements including top and bottom depth? Also could you post a sketch of the floor plan?

 

[Dix]

Welcome to the forums !!

A floor plan even rough drawn is going to help a lot!!

Get your firewood going NOW !

 

[Copp312]

Forgive the sketch. My 6 year old wanted to help measure and do the sketch. I wasn't going to discourage her.

Dimensions:
K 23x18
DR 16x12
LR 15x12
FR 18x21
BR 17x16
Fireplace is in the middle of the FR between FR and porch. Fireplace opening is 38W 26H 26D. There are ceiling fans in the BR and FR along with a couple in the upstairs bedrooms.

For some reason the image is turned on the fireplace, sorry. The second picture is taken from the fireplace looking up toward the other three bedrooms. You can barely see the tip of a ceiling fan blade near the top center of the picture.

 

[Grisu]

Don't worry about the floorplan; a rough sketch is all that's needed. The fireplace is in a good central location. The heat should travel well to most other parts of the house. It remains to be seen how hot the upstairs rooms will get. Keeping those doors only slightly ajar may help to prevent overheating.

The fireplace has a good size for an insert but is not high enough for a stove. Given the 3000 sqft of space to heat you should look for a large insert with a firebox of 3 cu ft or more. Some models to consider: Pacific Energy Summit, Quadrafire 5100, Lopi Freedom, Large Flush Hybrid insert from Travis industries (Lopi, Avalon, FireplaceXtraordinaire: essentially the same insert with different outside looks), Osburn 2400, Regency 3100. If your flue can accommodate an 8" liner the Kuma Sequoia and Buck 91/94 may be additional options. A forum search will give you plenty of information on most of those models. You can also check the review section: https://www.hearth.com/talk/link-forums/stove-reviews.35/ Some of those models have a catalyst which requires replacement usually about every 5 to 8 years. However, you get rewarded with a cleaner, more efficient burn and a more controllable heat output which will be helpful when it is not that cold outside.

For an exterior chimney an insulated full liner is highly recommended. Ditto for a block-off plate to reduce the heat loss up the chimney: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/ And since your fireplace is at an exterior wall and you have plenty of depth you may want to think about insulating behind the insert: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/

 

[Copp312]

A local handyman was trying to steer me towards a Napoleon. I'm not sure which model. Is that brand any good? In my limited research I also saw a Jotul. Maybe the better question is there a brand I should steer clear of? I also have three little kids and was wondering if the flush mount might be a safer way to go? Is the air intake typical at the bottom and output at the top? I really appreciate your responses. Thank you.

 

[Grisu]

Napoleon and Jotul are both good brands but they don't offer a really large insert that you will probably need for heating that space. Most stoves on the market are solidly built with little maintenance or other problems. The choice often comes down to personal design preferences, customer support, local availability, cat versus non-cat etc. I suggest to go through the list of inserts I posted and search in the forum for reports/experiences of actual owners. I doubt you will go terribly wrong with any one of those.

The blower is most of the time mounted in the bottom and circulates air around the insert and blows it out the top. Flush-mounts don't have an ash lip so you need to be careful to not have ash fall out from the firebox while the blower is running. They are also often more reliant on a blower than an insert that protrudes more. Mine has the blowers mounted at the sides and I usually turn them off after 2 or 3 hours into the burn and let natural convection do its thing.

Not sure if a flush-mount is safer for kids but when we got our insert, our youngest was 2.5 years and it was never an issue with her being too close to the insert. Kids usually have a pretty healthy respect of the fire and the heat coming off from the stove. There are hearth gates available if you want to be on the safe side.

 

[begreen]

Go large and if possible, not flush. You will get better heating from an insert that sticks out onto the hearth, particularly with the blower off as in a power outage. Flush inserts also tend to not have ash lips which can lead to ash frequently being sucked into the fan's intake and out around the room.

 

[Dix]

Sketch is awesome ( good on ya for letting the little one help ... start now with explaining hot, she'll respect the insert from the get go )

Ditto what Grisu & BG have stated, the bigger the better, and extended front are the way to go. An advantage of an extended front is heat out put in a power outage.

I am going to repeat, because it is VERY IMPORTANT FOR SUCCESS, get your firewood now !! Split & stacked with good air flow! Don't be afraid of pine, it's your friend, and can help with less than seasoned firewood.

 

[Newwave]

What she said! Get plenty of wood split and stacked now, ash, maple and some others may be ready by the fall if stacked in a good location with lots of sun and wind hitting it. Oak, hickory, locust and some others will not be ready for at least two years.

Buy a stove with more capacity than you think you need. I recommend one that protrudes from the opening for additional radiant heat, particularly when the power goes off. Also in a pinch you can heat water, soup and things on top of the stove in those infrequent dire situations.

Welcome to the forum, there are lots of good folks on here with many years of experience willing to share hard-learned knowledge.

Again, get your wood cut and stacked in the best location ASAP. Dry wood with less than 20 % moisture content is a pleasure to burn. More than 20%, not so much.

 

[laxin213]

As grisu has stated check out the models he mentioned. Ditto on the wood others have said _ you'll need a moisture meter. I have a large opening and was in 3 cu foot range and I looked at about 10 inserts from all the major brands and I went with a local Travis dealer (FireplaceX large front arch). The biggest thing that sold me was many of the other local dealers just recently had become dealers and my local Travis dealer was 5 miles away and in business for 30+ years. That's crucial. And my boss liked the looks of the insert a lot - that's crucial too. I didn't have a blaze king dealer close as well as a couple of the other brands but some dealers sold fireplaces, hot tubs and patio furniture and I visited a couple that had been selling and installing for less than a year. It's a tight economy but what I'm saying is get a good local dealer that is CSIA certified or the other chimney safety cert and listen to these vets on here that know their stuff too - lots to learn.

 

[EJP1234]

I have a similar sqft'age and floorplan. I installed a Lopi Freedom Bay last year, and it did great for the whole house. I think I am 2900sqft. Our heat pumps rarely kicked on, and when they did it was when I fell into a deep sleep on the couch before bed and forgot to load it properly, or if I slept in and didn't get up to reload it in the morning... honestly, it worked great, load around 8pm, around 6am, and run home from the office (5miles away) around noon... Electric bills averaged $150/mo last winter, and thats for a farily large house with two large electric heat pumps...

If you don't have wood now, time to get to it...

 

[Copp312]

Ball park (plus or minus $500) what should I expect to pay for a Travis insert (I was looking at the Avalon Large Flush Hybrid-Fyre but I also like many of those recommended so far such as the lopi and enviro), 6" liner (probably 25-30 feet) and whatever other parts are necessary plus installation of the liner and the unit?

Is cast iron far superior to steel?

Is that green start push button worth it?

 

[Grisu]

Ball park (plus or minus $500) what should I expect to pay for a Travis insert (I was looking at the Avalon Large Flush Hybrid-Fyre but I also like many of those recommended so far such as the lopi and enviro), 6" liner (probably 25-30 feet) and whatever other parts are necessary plus installation of the liner and the unit?

The large Hybrid-Fyre is one of the more expensive inserts. I think someone posted ~$5500 for his install a few months ago. Nevertheless, there can be large differences depending on the options you choose, ease of your particular installation, local labor costs, potential deals/sales in the "slow" season etc. You should talk to your local dealer.

Is cast iron far superior to steel?

No.

Is that green start push button worth it?

Let's just say you can buy a lot of matches for the additional $ that you would need to spend on it.

 

[chazcarr]

I'll just throw my support for the Regency / Hampton inserts. Mine does a great job of around 2700sq feet. I only need to turn the heat on for one room (babies room because the door has to be closed or she'll never sleep).

Of course my stove hates anything but envi-blocks or really well seasoned wood. Makes all the difference.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Copp- Lots of sage advice here so far. You have a lot to heat, so go big. I like Jotul and Enviro too, but 3 Plus CF fireboxes are available and I'd be looking for one, espec since you have a nice large fireplace to fit it in. The Pac Energy Summit is a good choice, check out the Quadrafire 5100I, a bit dated on the look, but a real performer. Cast iron is not superior to steel, but it has its attributes, mainly aesthetics. It plays into it too, you'll have this stove for many years. The biggest thing is with any good name brand you buy, you'll be warm if you have good dry wood. THAT is the key. I love Enviros, but my choice would be the Summit from Pac Energy. Good heater for the money, same attribute I like about Enviro. Good luck.

 

[laxin213]

You say you want a large viewing area- is there a strong wife opinion in the mix asking for that? Are cosmetics a big issue? I was leaning PE summit, but my wife didn't like the looks of it. I thought the PE aldera T5 would be the one we went with but no, didn't like the looks. Hampton regency 2600, quad 5100 we also looked at. Nope. She liked the looks of a hearthstone Clydesdale, a VC Merrimack and the FireplaceX LFA. I vetoed the VC due to quality, company being sold concerns, etc and we eventually went to the LFA. It was $3800 for the insert, $700 for liner, install was $400 which I negotiated because I needed a stone mason to break out 5' of extra material in my chimney's smoke chamber, that was an extra $550 to the mason. So I was like $5500. So far this year I had the tax credit and I saved about $700 off my heating bill. And we're keeping the house in the winter at 70+ instead of 60ish when running the heat sinks. So hard to attribute that. It's a lot of money $5500 but if I negate the costs of wood processing equip and gas, I pay for the insert in 8 years.

There might be some good off season deals, find a local dealer that has been in business a while and see what they have. As mentioned above you're in the 3cu firebox category, go look at all the stoves Grisu mentioned. If you don't have a good local dealer for that brand or wife vetoes the look cross one off the list. Make a chart with those 8 stoves and cross them off, compare specs and price etc. If budget is the primary concern, start trying to get prices by calling dealers. But I'd just stop in. But above all else, start getting your dry wood now, spitting it and stacking it.

 

[bholler]

I would like to add don't just go with the cheapest install option. Many stove shops just drop the cheapest liner possible uninsulated and with no block off plate. You will be much better off if you spend the extra money on a good install from the start rather than fighting a bad one the whole way.

 

[Chinneysweep187]

I mean you can debate all day on what stove brand is better . I would just look at the area your trying to heat (sqft of your home) and compare with the area that the wood stove can hear (in sqft) and find one that is on par. Step two look at the efficiency . Higher efficiency the higher percentage of the heat your stove produces will actually get projected into the house. Anything above 87% efficient is above dew point and produces a lot of condensation so I would avoid anything that high. I would stick with 80% to 85% efficient. Third I would find a stove that reaches that efficiency without a catalytic combustor. More parts that are common to break best to get the same results without it.

 

[Chinneysweep187]

And then obviously get an insulated liner to go with it.

 

[stovelark]

And to be fair, not all chimney sweeps/installers will shy away from "installing the cheapest liner possible uninsulated and with no block off plate," either. I have seen work of many of them here in CT, they're the same liners we sell at the store, but even more expensively installed.....Please lets not point fingers at "stove shops," I'm sure no offense was intended...

 

[Chinneysweep187]

And to be fair, not all chimney sweeps/installers will shy away from "installing the cheapest liner possible uninsulated and with no block off plate," either. I have seen work of many of them here in CT, they're the same liners we sell at the store, but even more expensively installed.....Please lets not point fingers at "stove shops," I'm sure no offense was intended...

I would say at least 7/10 companies take that route . Find out what is good and isn't and make sure they use what they state to use . Be there for the install!

 

[bholler]

And to be fair, not all chimney sweeps/installers will shy away from "installing the cheapest liner possible uninsulated and with no block off plate," either. I have seen work of many of them here in CT, they're the same liners we sell at the store, but even more expensively installed.....Please lets not point fingers at "stove shops," I'm sure no offense was intended...

I know that many sweeps do the same thing but in my experince a higher percentage of stove shops go with the cheaper liners and no insulation but you are right my original statement was not fair i am sorry