First Post for me. I am looking for information on Lopi Flex/95 wood burning fireplace insert.

[billsf100]

I purchased a used Lopi Flex/95 insert on Ebay. Stove was made in 1991. Model no longer made. It looks great, just need info on how to best install. Can anyone copy me an owners manual or install guide for my stove. I will be glad to pay. I have sent Travis Industries 2 emails and I get answers like ask your local Lopi sales rep. We do not have one here. The stove has 8" round flue connect, has cat converter that looks in good condition, my chimney has an 11" square clay liner in great shape. I will have to remove my damper in fireplace to get pipe up from stove to beginning of liner. Should I go that route and use a block off plate or should I purchase an 8" flue liner? I am a novice a would thank you for any advice you could give. I have found links on the net to install instructions of the newer Lopi inserts but not this one. You can see pictures of the stove on Ebay as auction # 220198050672,
did I make a mistake buying such an old stove? Thanks for taking the time to answer. [email protected]
Bill

 

[Gooserider]

Welcome to the board, and certainly a good question, but we usually keep posts in the "Gear" room to content about the tools and equipment needed to make firewood - such as saws and splitters, etc. I have moved your post to the "Hearth Room" which is intended for cordwood burning stoves, inserts, etc. and will hopefully get you more of a useful response... (Note, this isn't a big deal, just letting you know why the post was moved)

Not sure about the specifics on your stove, but the general recomendation we make to most people is that you are best off to install an appropriate liner, preferably with insulation if it will fit - in your case it should. Current rules say that you should not exceed 3x the flue area cross section on an interior chimney, or 2x on an exterior one. An 8" round flue is about 50"sq, and an 11" square clay flue is about 121"sq, so you would be marginal on an interior chimney, and over the limit on an exterior. You will almost certainly see better performance with a liner, and a liner will also make cleaning much easier. It's also a good safety boost in any case, and would be required if your clay tiles aren't in perfect shape.

In EITHER type of install you should use a blockoff plate.

Good luck,

Gooserider

 

[billsf100]

Thanks Gooserider for the reply and information. My chimney is located in the center of the house and the clay liner and morter are still in fine shape. So in my case if I choose not to use a liner do you think stove performance will be affected? Also, the damper on the stove as you can see in the picture has its operating rod above the outlet, in order to attach flue or stove pipe there I will have to cut a slot for the damper rod to pass thru, what will stop stove exhaust from coming thru there into my living area? I guess that where having an owners manual would really be useful. I have sent Travis Industries two emails for help, one was to ask about purchasing a trim kit big enough for my fireplace opening and the other to ask about installation guide or owners manual and parts. So far I have been told the supply for trim kits have been exhausted and no more for that stove are being produced and I should contact my Lopi stove retailer for more information. I know I can probobly get a new trim panel cut to size here at a machine shop but I cannot use the trim kit for a face seal installation as newer Lopi install guides suggest. Thanks to all for reading and anyone has any leads on how to get an owners manual for my stove please let me know.
Thanks, Bill

 

[webbie]

It is a simple enough stove that you can get by without the manual.

You mention it is a cat - is the cat in decent condition?

Look at the mechanisms- there should be two:
1. A bypass damper which allows smoke to go directly up the chimney - this is for loading and starting
2. A combustion air control - this lets smoke enter the fire and control the burn.

Once you are familiar with these, you can use the directions for just about any cat model as to how to operate. You might want to look at the manual for a cat insert like the larger Buck stoves, etc.
(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/wood/model91.html)

OK, so now onto installation.....
Given your chimney and the 8" stack, you wll probably do well with a direct connect, meaning a 5 foot stainless steel tube connected to your insert. You don't really need the trim panels....in fact you will get MORE heat without them. You can install ventilated panels for style if you want...made of that aluminum radiator material or anything else.

Installation does require some work -
read:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/
and
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/

about a "damper seal or block off plate". This is the best way to install.

You will need flexible stainless steel pipe to hook it up. Kits can be purchased.... see something like this

That one comes with a damper block off, but these are sometimes harder to install than a custom one.
That one is also a 6", you need an 8".

You can either get an oval to round tube or grind and cut out part of the fireplace damper plate and use a round one.

For your reference, here is an insert somewhat similar installed without panels
https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/fireplaces/source/tallfpav.html

 

[billsf100]

Thanks Craig! Very useful information. One more opinion of yours please, in looking at the picture I posted, at the to of the stove where the flue connects do you see the rod across the top that works the damper? It looks like I will have to cut a slot in the pipe I connect there before it will fit. What will keep smoke from coming out into my living space from that point? Thanks

 

[webbie]

I've done that slot thing many a time - no problem. Any holes in a venting system should suck IN, not let smoke out. Consider it like the hose of a vaccum cleaner, if you make a hole it will not let anything out.

That said, make the slot only as big as needed - no bigger.

 

[Shane]

Hey Bill,

Go to www.portersmvs.com and email them. They are my old competitors and they now have the Lopi line. I can no longer access the manuals on the dealer back site but they can and I would think they might take a moment to download and email it to you. It's weird I downloaded almost every manual off of that site but failed to get the one that you need.

 

[billsf100]

Thanks Shane for the tip on the owners guide. Craig, after reading your post I think I will go with the direct connect install. Could you elaborate a little more on this please? Do you mean take a ridgid 5 foot piece of stainlees steel, 8" in diameter and connect one end directly to top of insert and let the other end go inside the clay flue liner? In order to get the 8" round pipe thru the fireplace damper area I know I will have to cut out some of the fireplace damper and maybe remove a few bricks from the smoke shelf. Do I need some sort of sealant where the pipe goes inside the clay liner as well as a blocking plate right above the insert?
Thanks guys, Bill

 

[Gooserider]

Well with the direct connect, what you do is have a 5' length of either stainless or Flex pipe that attaches to the stove and goes up the chimney, with a blockoff plate at about the damper level that is as close to air tight as you can get it. This typically means two or three peices of sheet metal tapconned into the sides of the firebox and sealed with high temp silicone, and sealing the joint where your pipe goes through the plate with refractory cement. However there is no sealant at the top of the pipe as such. If you had a really huge flue tile you might need some sort of prop to keep the pipe pointing more or less straight up the chimney instead of letting it flop over, but with 8" going into an 11" tile, I don't think this is an issue.

Aside from performance issues, and yes, I do think you'll take a hit with a direct connect, though it won't be as bad with an inside chimney, is that it is a LOT more work to clean a direct connect. With most stoves, a full liner can simply be brushed down into the stove and then vaccumed out, or in some cases you can even go up throug the stove and clean from the bottom. Usually you will have to remove some parts of the stove to do this, but it's a relatively minor task.

OTOH to clean a direct connect, you must disconnect the pipe, remove the insert, and then take the pipe out, clean everything, then put it all back together again - essentially doing a complete removal and reinstallation of the unit at least once a year. If you pay for a sweep, expect the bill to be much higher, or if you do it yourself, expect the job to take a lot longer, and make a much bigger mess... The numbers I've seen suggest that there isn't a huge difference in cost between a full liner and a direct connect, and the reduction in sweep bills / hassle factor is worth the extra.

Gooserider

 

[billsf100]

Ok Gooserider, you have convinced me to go with a liner instead of direct connect. I sure do not want to have to undo everything just to clean the chimney. I am guessing I will be buying enough 8" stainless flex pipe to run from top of stove to top of chimney. I see there are kits to do this on ebay. Some suggest a blocking plate above the stove and a sealing plate on top of chimney, along with a rain cap. If the chimney is sealed around the flex pipe top and bottom then that would insulate the flex liner as well, which would keep me from having to wrap insulation around it. Do you go along with that? Thanks, Bill

 

[Gooserider]

Ok Gooserider, you have convinced me to go with a liner instead of direct connect. I sure do not want to have to undo everything just to clean the chimney. I am guessing I will be buying enough 8" stainless flex pipe to run from top of stove to top of chimney. I see there are kits to do this on ebay. Some suggest a blocking plate above the stove and a sealing plate on top of chimney, along with a rain cap. If the chimney is sealed around the flex pipe top and bottom then that would insulate the flex liner as well, which would keep me from having to wrap insulation around it. Do you go along with that? Thanks, Bill

Well the idea of the insulation is to keep the pipe from cooling to much and hurting the draft. It isn't as big of an issue with an inside chimney, especially if you only have a short part sticking out of the roof. It's also a bigger deal in colder climates, and since you're in NC, that also isn't a big problem for you. I would say that you probably wouldn't have a big problem skipping the insulation, or if you wanted to do a partial job, just do the part of the liner that will be above your heated space.

Definitely you need to seal the top of the chimney, in addition to the chimney cap, and while a block-off plate isn't strictly required by code with a full liner, it is highly reccomended as it keeps your heat from transferring up the chimney along the outside of the liner.

The E-bay kits are usually pretty good values BTW, although you might be better off in many cases to call the vendors directly and see about arranging a kit that more precisely meets your situation. If you search some of the past threads on liner purchases, there are also a couple of other low cost vendors that might be able to do well for you.

Info you will need is the length of the chimney, the exact ID of the flue collar on the insert, and the inside and outside dimensions of your chimney top, along with info about any other flues that might be sharing the same chimney structure. There may be some other items, but those are the big ones. You will also need to decide if you want to go all the way with flex, or use a mix of flex and rigid. Some folks claim that rigid is less prone to creosote buildup, and is easier to clean because it has smoother walls, but the difference is fairly small. You also need a straight chimney to use rigid. Many folks do mostly rigid except for five feet or so of flex at the bottom to get around the damper, and hook up to the stove. Others use flex all the way

Gooserider

 

[dclark372]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum. I searched the internet looking for info on my stove and Google found this forum for me. I happen to have a...Lopi Flex 95 that I just picked up this past fall. I wish I had found this forum sooner. I paid someone to install it for me, did a direct connect, couldn't get the block off plate to fit so he left it out. While I did heat the house with the stove this past winter(quite effectively I might add), the smell in my family room is unbearable now that the weather is warmer. Now the installer wants to put a liner all the way to the top to fix it. Does this make sense? I'd really like the to get this resolved once and for all. My wife and mother in law will not stop complaining about the smell. I loved the stove this winter BTW. How did it work out for you?

 

[Gooserider]

A direct connect without a blockoff plate is a MAJOR code violation to start with - it can potentially cause a lethal CO buildup in the home in a worst case scenario, so you definitely need to get something done to fix that at the very least.

By modern standards, a direct connect is generally not reccomended, some stove makers don't allow it at all, and others do but consider it a less than desirable approach, especially with a chimney that is larger than code would otherwise allow.

Generally you are best off with a full length liner, ideally insulated, and with a blockoff plate on the bottom. Code doesn't require the blockoff plate when using a full liner, but the general experience is that most stoves will heat much better with one in place, as it greatly reduces heat loss up the chimney.

If the chimney is in good repair, and otherwise code compliant, insulation is optional, but again, reccomended if possible, especially with an exterior chimney. If the chimney is not code compliant, and the liner is being used to bring the chimney up to NFPA specs, then the insulation is a required part of the install.

All that being said, it is likely that putting in the full liner may or may not fully solve your problem, especially in future years, though it may help. It sounds like what you are getting is a "flow reversal" where the air is entering your home through the cold chimney, bringing the smell with it, instead of drafting up like it should. As a VERY short term help, doing a thorough cleaning of the chimney and stove may help by removing the worst of the smelly material. This would include removing the direct connect plumbing and getting rid of the crud built up between it and the outside of the chimney (This can be a real PITA, and is a part of the reason liners are better than direct connects) Putting in a liner MIGHT solve the problem by reducing the tendency to flow reversal, and also make it easier to clean the chimney in future years.

The other thing to look at is how your house is ventilating itself. Normally the chimney should always be drafting up, in which case you don't get an odor, however if the house isn't getting enough ventilation you can get a flow reversal where the makeup air is being pulled in the chimney - try opening a window near the stove and see if that helps... Also look to see if you have air leaks that are providing an alternative air exit path, especially in the upper parts of your house - the idea is that you need to make sure your house is letting enough air in, and that the preferred air exit point is the chimney so that the "stack effect" will help keep the odors going up the chimney.

Hope this helps,

Gooserider

 

[dclark372]

Thanks Gooserider. I really appreciate the super quick response. I've had others recommend extending the chimney, getting a windbreaker cap, etc. The thing is, in the winter when it is cold out, the stove works great. It only seems to be an issue when it warmed up and especially when the humidity was higher. Like today, when it's expected to hit 90 again! It is an exterior masonry chimney in decent shape. I had an installer suggest part of the problem is that the fireplace is in a room that is half underground (tri-level house), so it acts more like a basement chimney and will tend to draft poorly. I really had no trouble getting it to burn as long as it was below freezing. I tried stuffing some insulation down the chimney this spring to block the back flow...big mistake, it smelled even worse. I had a guy come over and do a halfa@#ed sweeping job(it was free, friend of the family,he used round brushes on a square chimney, you get the picture).

I also have another problem, I need a trim hardware too. Seems like Bill and I have similar situations. Not the surrounds, but the kit to convert it to flushmount. My local dealer said Lopi never made it. This stove was sold as two different models, one that flush mounted and one that didn't. The new ones come with an optional conversion kit. The stoves look so similar, you'd think they'd be universal!

Thanks Darren

 

[Gooserider]

Thanks Gooserider. I really appreciate the super quick response. I've had others recommend extending the chimney, getting a windbreaker cap, etc. The thing is, in the winter when it is cold out, the stove works great.

This is fairly typical - just about ALL chimneys will draw better when the weather is cold. A chimney runs on heat differential, the greater the difference between the inside and outside temperatures, the better the chimney will draw, especially once you've gotten a fire going and a positive draft established - it tends to be a self perpetuating engine.

It only seems to be an issue when it warmed up and especially when the humidity was higher. Like today, when it's expected to hit 90 again! It is an exterior masonry chimney in decent shape. I had an installer suggest part of the problem is that the fireplace is in a room that is half underground (tri-level house), so it acts more like a basement chimney and will tend to draft poorly.

However you have what some folks refer to as an "evil chimney" - if you do a search on that term you will find lots of references... That it's an exterior chimney is bad, and a low level entry makes it even worse, as both factors tend to contribute to flow reversals. If you hold a flame or an incense stick by the stove's stack opening when it's being a stinker, I'm willing to bet that you'll find either no draft at all, or that there is an airflow down the chimney into the room. Essentially what you have to do is keep the flow from reversing. The best way to do this is to fix the basic design so that it works right - this is where putting in a full length insulated liner with a bottom blockoff plate will really help - by reducing the area the chimney has to flow the wrong way, it will be much less likely to do so. Eliminating alternative air exit paths by weathersealing the house better will also help (and will also make your future heating performance better.)

As a temporary "band-aid" approach, I've heard of some folks that have been able to keep a positive draft going by mechanical methods - A wind cap might work, but is probably the least likely to. Other approaches I've heard of include either putting a small fan (like a computer cooling box fan) blowing up the chimney, or burning a light bulb to warm the air inside the stove - some have even used those big glass "7-day" church candles - just something to keep the air at the bottom of the chimney warmer than the air at the top, so that it will draft properly.

I really had no trouble getting it to burn as long as it was below freezing. I tried stuffing some insulation down the chimney this spring to block the back flow...big mistake, it smelled even worse. I had a guy come over and do a halfa@#ed sweeping job(it was free, friend of the family,he used round brushes on a square chimney, you get the picture).

Definitely you need to do a better cleaning - friends are good cause the price is right, but you have to have the job done properly. It is something you can do yourself if you are reasonably handy with tools and don't mind some potential roof work (depending on your setup) - this is ESPECIALLY critical with a direct connect setup! One of the problems with a direct connect is that when the smoke goes from the stove pipe into the chimney, it tends to expand, cool, and slow down, depositing a lot of creosote at the connection point - this creosote tends to run down the chimney and build up between the outside of the connecting pipe and the chimney wall, where it stinks in the summer and poses a fire hazard in the winter. Modern stoves are better about this than old ones, but it can still be an issue.

The reason the insulation didn't work is because fiberglass insulation is porous - air goes right through it unless you do something like wrapping it in plastic to seal it.

I also have another problem, I need a trim hardware too. Seems like Bill and I have similar situations. Not the surrounds, but the kit to convert it to flushmount. My local dealer said Lopi never made it. This stove was sold as two different models, one that flush mounted and one that didn't. The new ones come with an optional conversion kit. The stoves look so similar, you'd think they'd be universal!

This is something that should be mentioned in your stove manual - I don't know the answer, but you should be able to download a copy of the manual from the Lopi website, and if they make a conversion kit for your model, it would be in the manual. Failing that, I'd try Lopi tech support. Note that if the stove isn't listed by the manufacturer to be used with a conversion kit, it is a definite code violation to try and convert it, and potentially a safety hazard. The manual is supposed to list every condition that the manufacturer had the stove tested and certified as safe to use - attempting to do things not in the manual is going into "no-man's land" where either no testing has been done, or the testing failed, so there is no easy way to tell if it is safe to do or not - since code has to be conservative, it won't allow it.

Gooserider