Flooring not flush with hearth - what would you do?

[MelissaW]

I have a Jotul C450 Kennebec (circa 2006) and I'm making some changes to my fireplace surround and mantle. I had tiled the whole thing just prior to installing the insert. I had tiled right over the existing hearth (some sort of stone, I think?) and have always disliked how it turned out.

Today I ripped out the tile to get a look at the old hearth. The main issue (besides the fact that the hearth doesn't come out 18" from the doors as it's supposed to), is that the flooring is uneven and the hearth sits level with the floor in one spot, and the rest of the hearth sits above the floor from 1/4" - 1/2".

See pics. I'm not sure how to deal with this while also keeping it from becoming a colossal undertaking. Transition pieces and shims? And can anyone identify the stone? Thanks in advance!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It's standard oak flooring. Cut the flooring to make the hearth the right size.

 

[MelissaW]

It's standard oak flooring. Cut the flooring to make the hearth the right size.

The cutting of the floor I'm not too worried about, it's more how unlevel the floor is on either side of the hearth. Thanks.

 

[zrock]

Hard to tell from pic but that hearth looks like stamped concrete. I'd just break it out and pour/stamp a new one. Or put in a tile hearth the proper size

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[jetsam]

If you want it to look nice without too much effort, level the concrete (pack backer rod into the gap, frame up a little box, and pour self leveler onto the whole thing up to the height of a piece of your chosen pencil minus thinset and your chosen tile), then tile it and run a piece of pencil around the edge. The height difference will actually be worse, but it'll look like it is on purpose, and the gap is covered.

If you want it to BE level, either grind it down or break it out and start over. I'd break it out every time because that's not much concrete to pour, but it's a lot to grind.

You could also do some kind of flooring transition or try to grout the gap, but either one is going to wind up looking wonky. A feathered concrete edge down to the oak is going to crumble before long.

 

[Hogwildz]

Is the floor out of level or the pad? If it's the pad, I am with jetsam, either pour a layer of self leveling, or break out the pad and pour a new one. I'd go with light weight concrete myself. If the floor is off, there isn't much you can do other than see if you can jack the floor up to level and see if it levels out with the pad, or break out the pad and pour a new one to meet up with the floor. The pad may be off like the floor, but I doubt it will be noticeable.

 

[MelissaW]

Hard to tell from pic but that hearth looks like stamped concrete. I'd just break it out and pour/stamp a new one. Or put in a tile hearth the proper size

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zrock - I think it could be concrete as well, but I'm not sure.
House was built in 1951, and there's a single center grout line on the hearth (see pic). The slab seems to be about 1.5 inches thick. For what it's worth, from the basement I can see that the support boards are angled (see second pic). When I removed the tiles the hearth material didn't chip or scratch at all.

 

[MelissaW]

If you want it to look nice without too much effort, level the concrete (pack backer rod into the gap, frame up a little box, and pour self leveler onto the whole thing up to the height of a piece of your chosen pencil minus thinset and your chosen tile), then tile it and run a piece of pencil around the edge. The height difference will actually be worse, but it'll look like it is on purpose, and the gap is covered.

If you want it to BE level, either grind it down or break it out and start over. I'd break it out every time because that's not much concrete to pour, but it's a lot to grind.

You could also do some kind of flooring transition or try to grout the gap, but either one is going to wind up looking wonky. A feathered concrete edge down to the oak is going to crumble before long.

Ah, yes, I forgot to mention that I want it to BE level with the flooring because we walk in front of that fireplace all the time, it's not out of the way. I suspect I'll have to break it up. I assume renting a demolition hammer is the way to go?

 

[Hogwildz]

Something is amiss with the way the subfloor angles. That is also not much support. Depending on how large the stone or concrete or whatever it is that is on there. You could probably use a stone chisel and break the mortar up, and lift the stones out to see what is going on underneath. That is the first thing I would do. You may be able to reuse them if it is a case of leveling the subfloor underneath and def add some more support under there.

 

[Hogwildz]

BTW, your wiring is a bit scary looking. Those pigtails should be in a junction box, taped and covered

 

[Simonkenton]

I don't understand the problem. Looks ok to me.

 

[jetsam]

I didn't understand that the pad was grouted stones, which appears to be the case in the second set of pictures.

It could be that ripping them out still won't allow you to level them, as the stone itself may be thicker than the space they're in.

I agree with hogwildz, carefully take the stone up and see what you've got. The basement picture appears to show the supports for the hearth pad angling from the foundation to 3-4" up on a 2x?, which is the same height as the floor joists. At a (hopefully) minimum, the joists could be 2x8 and the floor is 1/2 plywood with 3/4" oak on it, which is 8.5" total height, leaving about 3.5" on top of the supports on the high side. That's exactly enough room to build a 2x cantilever and drop a 1" piece of stone in.

If you pull the stone and the top of the cantilever is no longer a flat surface down there, you will have to fix that or go with a thinner hearth material. I don't think you will find that though, because I think if the framing had shifted that much it would have cracked the grout on your existing stones.

 

[MelissaW]

Thank you for all the replies.
I think the two stones are set in a very thick mortar bed. I've begun chiseling and I'm not getting very far. I think the mortar goes all the way to the floor supports because I can see a bit of it from the basement.
Additionally, both the hearth stones and the wood floor are out of level in different parts - I thought it was just the flooring.
I'm going to continue chiseling and see if I can get underneath one of the stones. If I can't then I am going to have to come up with plan B.

 

[begreen]

I know I'm lazy but I would be inclined to not try for flush. Instead I would cut out the oak floor one board to get proper depth. Then build up the gap at the end with strips of cement board. Then I would use mortar to level the top and set a hearth sized sheet of cement board on top. Then tile or stone tile on the cement board. The perimeter can get oak trimming to conceal the edge.

 

[jetsam]

Ooh, similar but even lazier: Pick a nice 3/4" flooring reducer that you like, then build up the whole hearth pad to meet that height. Could just pour cement, or go 3/8 too shallow and then tile it. Put the reducer all the way around the perimeter. Also not flush, but has nice oak flooring transition all the way around the edge.

 

[jetsam]

The lesson to be drawn from all this is that when the contractor tells you THE WAY that something is to be fixed, it is less The One True Solution and more a list of what tools and materials he happens to have on his truck at the moment.

 

[MelissaW]

I know I'm lazy but I would be inclined to not try for flush. Instead I would cut out the oak floor one board to get proper depth. Then build up the gap at the end with strips of cement board. Then I would use mortar to level the top and set a hearth sized sheet of cement board on top. Then tile or stone tile on the cement board. The perimeter can get oak trimming to conceal the edge.

Yes! This would be my first instinct for sure. The path of least resistance (and least potential for disaster).
Unfortunately, the way this long and narrow room is set up, the fireplace sits along the traffic flow, it's not tucked away in a corner. It's on a long inside wall with doorways on either side (one further away than the other). In a perfect world I'd just move it to an adjacent wall
The hearth *had* tile atop it with oak transition pieces, but the transition was a good 1 - 1.5 inches tall and that really gets in the way. I hated it! If it was dark you could easily stub your toe on it as you tried to walk past. My goal is not to end up with that again.

 

[MelissaW]

I could rearrange the room, but I'd have to mount the tv over the fireplace!

 

[Trey1979]

The cutting of the floor I'm not too worried about, it's more how unlevel the floor is on either side of the hearth. Thanks.

Is it a concrete slab are a raised foundation?

2018 drolet ht2000

 

[MelissaW]

Is it a concrete slab are a raised foundation?

2018 drolet ht2000

Raised. There's basement below.

 

[Hogwildz]

Any progress getting those stones loose?

 

[jetsam]

I could rearrange the room, but I'd have to mount the tv over the fireplace!

Throw it out on the curb.

I tossed mine in 1992, and a couple decades later I feel like I have made few decisions that turned out better than that one.

 

[MelissaW]

Any progress getting those stones loose?

I'm in a holding pattern...Right now I am leaning towards leaving them where they are and building a new hearth around them.

 

[Hogwildz]

I'm in a holding pattern...Right now I am leaning towards leaving them where they are and building a new hearth around them.

Ah, tearem up. Damn you ain't far. If you need help, just hollar.

 

[MelissaW]

New twist...just had chimney cleaners out, and the guy suggested that I not rip out the stone hearth, but instead chip out the mortar in front and find some good coordinating tile to install up against it to extend the hearth to the 18" depth.
Now, he actually said to not even cut the flooring out and tile over it, but I think that would be stupid. I would cut the flooring out and add durock as a base for the tile.
I like this idea because having had the stone hearth covered with tile for the last 14 years I had forgotten how much I like it.