Got the Vaccine

gzecc

Minister of Fire
Sep 24, 2008
4,785
NNJ
In NJ my wife and I have to wait for the smokers to get their shots first.
 

Ludlow

Minister of Fire
Jun 4, 2018
1,437
PA
In NJ my wife and I have to wait for the smokers to get their shots first.
This is getting entertaining.



 

Ludlow

Minister of Fire
Jun 4, 2018
1,437
PA
If I get vaccinated:

1.- Can I stop wearing the mask?
Government Response - No

2.- Can they reopen restaurants, pubs, bars etc and everyone work normally?
Government Response - No

3.- Will I be resistant to covid?
Government Response - Maybe, but we don't know exactly, it probably won't stop you getting it

4.- At least I won't be contagious to others anymore?
Government Response - No you can still pass it on, possibly, nobody knows.

5.- If we vaccinate all children, will school resume normally?
Government Response - No

6.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?
Government Response - No

7.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop disinfecting my hands?
Government Response - No

8.- If I vaccinate myself and my grandfather, can we hug each other?
Government Response - No

9.- Will cinemas, theatres and stadiums be reopened thanks to vaccines?
Government Response - No

10.- Will the vaccinated be able to gather?
Government Response - No

11.- What is the real benefit of vaccination?
Government Response - The virus won't kill you.

12.- Are you sure it won't kill me?
Government Response - No

13.- If statistically the virus won't kill me anyway ... Why would I get vaccinated?"
Government Response - To protect others.

14.- So if I get vaccinated, the others are 100% sure I'm not infecting them?
Government Response - No

So to summarise, the Covid19 vaccine...

Does not give immunity.
Does not eliminate the virus.
Does not prevent death.
Does not guarantee you won’t get it.
Does not prevent you from getting it.
Does not stop you passing it on
Does not eliminate the need for travel bans.
Does not eliminate the need for business closures.
Does not eliminate the need for lockdowns.
Does not eliminate the need for masking.

So...what is it actually doing?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,841
central pa
If I get vaccinated:

1.- Can I stop wearing the mask?
Government Response - No

2.- Can they reopen restaurants, pubs, bars etc and everyone work normally?
Government Response - No

3.- Will I be resistant to covid?
Government Response - Maybe, but we don't know exactly, it probably won't stop you getting it

4.- At least I won't be contagious to others anymore?
Government Response - No you can still pass it on, possibly, nobody knows.

5.- If we vaccinate all children, will school resume normally?
Government Response - No

6.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?
Government Response - No

7.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop disinfecting my hands?
Government Response - No

8.- If I vaccinate myself and my grandfather, can we hug each other?
Government Response - No

9.- Will cinemas, theatres and stadiums be reopened thanks to vaccines?
Government Response - No

10.- Will the vaccinated be able to gather?
Government Response - No

11.- What is the real benefit of vaccination?
Government Response - The virus won't kill you.

12.- Are you sure it won't kill me?
Government Response - No

13.- If statistically the virus won't kill me anyway ... Why would I get vaccinated?"
Government Response - To protect others.

14.- So if I get vaccinated, the others are 100% sure I'm not infecting them?
Government Response - No

So to summarise, the Covid19 vaccine...

Does not give immunity.
Does not eliminate the virus.
Does not prevent death.
Does not guarantee you won’t get it.
Does not prevent you from getting it.
Does not stop you passing it on
Does not eliminate the need for travel bans.
Does not eliminate the need for business closures.
Does not eliminate the need for lockdowns.
Does not eliminate the need for masking.

So...what is it actually doing?
I don't know where you are getting your info but it clearly isn't from the cdc dept of health Or anywhere else official. The answer to all of those questions is at this point we have to get the vaccine out there to protect people at risk so they don't die. That is the important thing keeping americans alive. After we do that we can worry about the rest of it.

Or would you rather have them lie and say it's all under control go back to your normal life and let more people die?
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,841
central pa
It may very possibly give immunity it has in many test subjects.

Of course it doesn't eliminate the virus the only thing that can do that is herd immunity and time.

So far it has prevented death but they can't say that for sure because they are not absolutely positive

No it doesn't guarantee you won't get it but it greatly reduced the risk and if you do get it it greatly reduced your symptoms

They can't guarantee you can't pass it on yet no

Of course it won't eliminate the need for travel bans overnight again it takes time.

Again opening up all businesses safely will take time.

Same for lockdowns

Same for masks. But really get over it masks are not a big deal I really don't see why people complain about them so much
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,648
Downeast Maine
If I get vaccinated:

1.- Can I stop wearing the mask?
Government Response - No

2.- Can they reopen restaurants, pubs, bars etc and everyone work normally?
Government Response - No

3.- Will I be resistant to covid?
Government Response - Maybe, but we don't know exactly, it probably won't stop you getting it

4.- At least I won't be contagious to others anymore?
Government Response - No you can still pass it on, possibly, nobody knows.

5.- If we vaccinate all children, will school resume normally?
Government Response - No

6.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?
Government Response - No

7.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop disinfecting my hands?
Government Response - No

8.- If I vaccinate myself and my grandfather, can we hug each other?
Government Response - No

9.- Will cinemas, theatres and stadiums be reopened thanks to vaccines?
Government Response - No

10.- Will the vaccinated be able to gather?
Government Response - No

11.- What is the real benefit of vaccination?
Government Response - The virus won't kill you.

12.- Are you sure it won't kill me?
Government Response - No

13.- If statistically the virus won't kill me anyway ... Why would I get vaccinated?"
Government Response - To protect others.

14.- So if I get vaccinated, the others are 100% sure I'm not infecting them?
Government Response - No

So to summarise, the Covid19 vaccine...

Does not give immunity.
Does not eliminate the virus.
Does not prevent death.
Does not guarantee you won’t get it.
Does not prevent you from getting it.
Does not stop you passing it on
Does not eliminate the need for travel bans.
Does not eliminate the need for business closures.
Does not eliminate the need for lockdowns.
Does not eliminate the need for masking.

So...what is it actually doing?
It is going to save lives, which is the point of the "lockdowns" and everything else.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,648
Downeast Maine
We all just need to face the facts that we are living in a global pandemic and life as we know it will be different forever. This happens after every plague and then people forget about it and then it happens all over again.
 

jatoxico

Minister of Fire
Aug 8, 2011
4,334
Long Island NY
How about we change it to; When enough people are vaccinated? Whatever the perceived downside, which so far there has been virtually none, I think everyone needs to do their part and not let others assume all the "risk".

If I get vaccinated:

1.- Can I stop wearing the mask?
Government Response - Yes

2.- Can they reopen restaurants, pubs, bars etc and everyone work normally?
Government Response -Yes

3.- Will I be resistant to covid?
Government Response - Yes now, yes then

4.- At least I won't be contagious to others anymore?
Government Response - Yes you will be less contagious and possibly not at all

5.- If we vaccinate all children, will school resume normally?
Government Response - Yes

6.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?
Government Response -Yes

7.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop disinfecting my hands?
Government Response - Yes

8.- If I vaccinate myself and my grandfather, can we hug each other?
Government Response - Yes

9.- Will cinemas, theatres and stadiums be reopened thanks to vaccines?
Government Response - Yes

10.- Will the vaccinated be able to gather?
Government Response - Yes

11.- What is the real benefit of vaccination?
Government Response - The virus won't kill you. That's pretty good, no?

12.- Are you sure it won't kill me?
Government Response - No You want certainty??

13.- If statistically the virus won't kill me anyway ... Why would I get vaccinated?"
Government Response - To protect others. That's not the worst reason I've ever heard

14.- So if I get vaccinated, the others are 100% sure I'm not infecting them?
Government Response - No vaccines are 100%. These have some of the highest efficacies of all.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,648
Downeast Maine
To be fair you should probably be frequently washing your hands and practicing good infection control after you get vaccinated/covid is over. We only have this level of technology and comfort because some people realized that hand washing will prevent nearly all disease.



I've read on a few scholarly sources that the Plague of Justinian (most likely bubonic plague) that ultimately destroyed the East Roman Empire had a case fatality rate similar to that of Covid. About 5% of people that get bubonic plague in modern days will die, but if bubonic plague were running rampant you know everyone would be hiding in their houses for sure. Due to not having any real medical knowledge the plague of Justinian killed some 30-50% of the population of East Rome and deaths in Constantinople were 5,000 per day. If the hospitals fill up in Rural areas, like they are doing right now, the deaths from Covid will be just the same. The deaths in NYC finally started to slow down once the "lockdowns" started and there were less people going to the hospital due to fewer infections.

Usually folks dying from Covid are having simultaneous infections and are ultimately septic. Unfortunately the way "mortality rates" care calculated for certain diseases is very misleading. There are many people dying of things other than Covid, but Covid was the thing that triggered a weakened immune system, but is not determined to be the cause of death. However, that person would have kept on living had they not gotten covid. Maine started to show far more Covid deaths after the Maine CDC initiated a review of death certificates coming from hospitals. One example was a woman that died a day after testing negative for Covid after battling it for weeks, but due to the negative test her death certificate did not list Covid.

If anything the world governments are underreporting deaths to keep people from panicking.

A tree can fend off a few beetles or other bark destroying insects, but the very defense attracts even more insects and the tree becomes overwhelmed.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
696
Eastern Long Island NY
If I get vaccinated:

1.- Can I stop wearing the mask?
Government Response - No

2.- Can they reopen restaurants, pubs, bars etc and everyone work normally?
Government Response - No

3.- Will I be resistant to covid?
Government Response - Maybe, but we don't know exactly, it probably won't stop you getting it

4.- At least I won't be contagious to others anymore?
Government Response - No you can still pass it on, possibly, nobody knows.

5.- If we vaccinate all children, will school resume normally?
Government Response - No

6.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?
Government Response - No

7.- If I am vaccinated, can I stop disinfecting my hands?
Government Response - No

8.- If I vaccinate myself and my grandfather, can we hug each other?
Government Response - No

9.- Will cinemas, theatres and stadiums be reopened thanks to vaccines?
Government Response - No

10.- Will the vaccinated be able to gather?
Government Response - No

11.- What is the real benefit of vaccination?
Government Response - The virus won't kill you.

12.- Are you sure it won't kill me?
Government Response - No

13.- If statistically the virus won't kill me anyway ... Why would I get vaccinated?"
Government Response - To protect others.

14.- So if I get vaccinated, the others are 100% sure I'm not infecting them?
Government Response - No

So to summarise, the Covid19 vaccine...

Does not give immunity.
Does not eliminate the virus.
Does not prevent death.
Does not guarantee you won’t get it.
Does not prevent you from getting it.
Does not stop you passing it on
Does not eliminate the need for travel bans.
Does not eliminate the need for business closures.
Does not eliminate the need for lockdowns.
Does not eliminate the need for masking.

So...what is it actually doing?
You are trying to get definitive (yes/no, and nothing else) answers when reality is not like that. Answers to those questions are "not yet (directly after getting the vaccine)" or "not 100%" etc.

Hence if you are asking "100% yes, now?" the answer is nope.

Consider the freedom limiting rules that have been imposed on all of us already, and consider them being absent but being rolled out in the country at the highest pace possible. Example; "traffic light installation and people have to stop for red".

Will I not die after this? No, not 100% of the time. Not immediately. Hence in a yes/no forced answer, the answer is nope.

Will it prevent all accidents? Same. Nope.

All answers to your questions are probabilities and as a result forcing y/n answers to your questions paints a picture that does not comport with reality in any meaningful way.
It is bending the truth by forcing to choose between inadequate (to describe the truth) answers.
 

gzecc

Minister of Fire
Sep 24, 2008
4,785
NNJ
This is getting entertaining.



Follow the money. Keep smokers alive to continue paying the cigarette taxes!
 
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Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,107
Northern Indiana
Moreover, flue shot...?
There is no comparison between flu and covid past they are respiratory illnesses. The flu virus mutates a 1000 times faster than a Coronavirus does. You have immunity to the strain of flu you were vaccinated for.

We have seen Swine Flu cases in the last year. I speculate it’s because of testing but, we see them in the age range that were never vaccinated for swine flu years ago.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
696
Eastern Long Island NY
There is no comparison between flu and covid past they are respiratory illnesses. The flu virus mutates a 1000 times faster than a Coronavirus does. You have immunity to the strain of flu you were vaccinated for.

We have seen Swine Flu cases in the last year. I speculate it’s because of testing but, we see them in the age range that were never vaccinated for swine flu years ago.
Yes, I know. What I meant was "do we have to have a covid shot every year" (if it does not impart immunity in a lasting timeframe) - as if that (shot every year) was a big problem. It is not as half our country gets a flue shot every year. That was the point I tried to make.

edit: nice typo for this forum, flue -> flu ... :p
 

Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,107
Northern Indiana
Yes, I know. What I meant was "do we have to have a covid shot every year" (if it does not impart immunity in a lasting timeframe) - as if that (shot every year) was a big problem. It is not as half our country gets a flue shot every year. That was the point I tried to make.

edit: nice typo for this forum, flue -> flu ... :p
From what I’ve seen and heard it is likely we will have to have boosters or whatever you want to call them. I think the hope would be once we have a high enough percentage vaccinated or immune through illness that it will stop it and it will basically go away.
 

paulnlee

Feeling the Heat
Dec 2, 2018
399
Flemington, NJ
Had to laugh today, getting stitches after MOHs yesterday and doc and aides were talking vaccine. Asked me when I'm getting mine, I said never. He said that's the same answer my previous patient said. Said he never talks politics
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,841
central pa
Had to laugh today, getting stitches after MOHs yesterday and doc and aides were talking vaccine. Asked me when I'm getting mine, I said never. He said that's the same answer my previous patient said. Said he never talks politics
I am curious what your reasoning behind that is?
 

jatoxico

Minister of Fire
Aug 8, 2011
4,334
Long Island NY
It's too bad that the discussion and decision about use of vaccines/masks etc is viewed as a political one.
I wonder if the next time anyone needs to have a procedure if they want the doctor to wash his/her hands, wear gloves and a mask and sterilize the tools or not.
 

paulnlee

Feeling the Heat
Dec 2, 2018
399
Flemington, NJ
I am curious what your reasoning behind that is?
Not one for vaccines to begin with(since USMC) and all the changes via WHO(good name) CDC, the numbers are suspect and the rest leaves very little confidence. I honestly believe most of it is all hype. Haven't changed a thing except the forced regulations but I'll be damned if I'm going to wear a stocking under my two masks ;lol
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,841
central pa
Not one for vaccines to begin with(since USMC) and all the changes via WHO(good name) CDC, the numbers are suspect and the rest leaves very little confidence. I honestly believe most of it is all hype. Haven't changed a thing except the forced regulations but I'll be damned if I'm going to wear a stocking under my two masks ;lol
Are you going to pay out of pocket for the medical bills if you do get it after turning down the vaccine?

Things are changing from the CDC WHO etc as we learn more and get more data on the virus. How are they supposed to have all of the answers about something that didn't exist previously?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,841
central pa
Are you after you got the vaccine? As far as the CDC&WHO is concerned it's like an Abbott-Costello who's on first gag
Why would I I am doing everything I can to avoid getting sick.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
696
Eastern Long Island NY
Are you going to pay out of pocket for the medical bills if you do get it after turning down the vaccine?

Things are changing from the CDC WHO etc as we learn more and get more data on the virus. How are they supposed to have all of the answers about something that didn't exist previously?
I am more and more getting behind the idea that the government should mandate the vaccine but offer opt outs under the condition that a waiver is signed for covid ICU hospitalization, and even normal non ICU hospitalization if the hospital is above 95% occupied or something like that. If you refuse, die on your own recognizance. At home. You won't get care in the hospital.

Free county, also in this.

And I note my wife work in a hospital (as well as a nursing home).
 

tlc1976

Minister of Fire
Oct 7, 2012
717
Northwest Lower Michigan
I am more and more getting behind the idea that the government should mandate the vaccine but offer opt outs under the condition that a waiver is signed for covid ICU hospitalization, and even normal non ICU hospitalization if the hospital is above 95% occupied or something like that. If you refuse, die on your own recognizance. At home. You won't get care in the hospital.

Free county, also in this.

And I note my wife work in a hospital (as well as a nursing home).
As long as it’s actually available to everyone. The local hospital had less than 1000 doses last week for people 80 and older and the slots filled up in 4 minutes. The next county over had 300 slots for its residents but dumped it when they found out 280 of the 300 signed up from elsewhere. No vaccinations going on in my county unless you’re a medical worker. With 10 million people in Michigan, it’s doubtful it will ever be available to me at this rate. But I’d love to have it. I have issues with anemia and asthma and blood clots, Covid would likely make those worse. I’ve also got one of the more unfavorable blood types.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
696
Eastern Long Island NY
As long as it’s actually available to everyone. The local hospital had less than 1000 doses last week for people 80 and older and the slots filled up in 4 minutes. The next county over had 300 slots for its residents but dumped it when they found out 280 of the 300 signed up from elsewhere. No vaccinations going on in my county unless you’re a medical worker. With 10 million people in Michigan, it’s doubtful it will ever be available to me at this rate. But I’d love to have it. I have issues with anemia and asthma and blood clots, Covid would likely make those worse. I’ve also got one of the more unfavorable blood types.
Of course. I want it, but have not been offered yet. That does not equate refusing it. Colleagues of my wife did refuse though ...