Hampton 300i insert owner needs experienced installer in Danbury Ct area

[Jimmy H]

I find myself warm and cozy on the evening before Christmas searching the internet for the assistance of an experienced flue installer to diagnose the performance my new Hampton 1300 wood insert. As it is, the sole source of my comfort is an electric blanket and my patience with the youthful original installer is worn thin. Happening across this website, reading of its members experience and the helpful insight shared, I am hopeful of being directed to someone local with the experience and background necessary to resolve the problem generating the amount of heat this insert is capable of. Nothing against youthful tradesmen, I was one once also, just opposed to his gaining experience at my expense.

Early last summer I purchased the Hampton 1300 insert from Berkshire Hearth and Home in Newtown, CT with the intent of reducing the reliance on propane to heat my 1050 square foot cottage on Candlewood Lake. I looked at many inserts, this unit was selected as well suited to provide the heat output necessary and the optional large surround just covered the opening of stone fireplace of the main room. I am most pleased with its appearance and the value received from my purchase. (see photo)

My dilemma began at the start of our heating season here in Connecticut, somewhere mid to late October, when temperatures began to drop below the 50’s and I could not heat the home above 67 degrees. I experienced delayed start up and short cycling of the blower also. Burning both red and white oak cut from my property, aged just about a year with moisture content measured between 20 and 12, the insert failed to heat the 14’ x 21’ room with 15’ cathedral ceiling. I am mindful of both the wood type and moisture content as this is where I was first directed to investigate by the owner of Berkshire Hearth and Home as the source of my problem, which I dutifully did.

After burning a full cord plus some during this three month period and failing to achieve satisfactory results the owner agreed to send his installer for a site visit to put my concerns to rest. In brief, the installer obtained a room temperature of 69 degrees with 80 degrees at the ceiling using wood he supplied. With an outside temperature of 46 degrees he concluded the insert output was sufficient, that the home was drafty and I should insulate.

I conceded a cottage constructed in 1934 is expected to be less than weather tight but took exception to the insert being unable to compensate especially on a most calm 46 degree day. Using a tissue I demonstrated the ”draft” to be air drawn to the insert intake during blower operation and, in my mind, dispelled the air leakage theory under existing conditions. The young installers’ demeanor suggested further discussion of delta T; heat transfer or air leakage would not be constructive or assist in reaching mutual agreement on the cause of, or solution to, the problem at hand.

The installer contracted by Berkshire Hearth and Home placed fiberglass insulation in the gap along the perimeter where the surround and stone face meet (see photo’s) which has not made a difference. He determined the blower assembly was not properly in place preventing contact between the thermal disc and stove which when reset solved the short cycling issue.

This is where the issue lies, thus my call for assistance.

I am not an expert on inserts or chimneys by any means; this is why I hired what I thought to be a professional. Perhaps inexperience precluded recognition of requirements for proper installation in a chimney of this type or the ramifications of an improper installation on insert efficiency. (see photos)

This said anything more I could offer would be conjecture; I defer to those with experience for direction and look forward to a response.

 

[begreen]

Greetings and welcome. This looks like a Hampton 300i fireplace, right? The insulation tape will do nothing. Is there an insulated block-off plate at the damper level? If a block-off plate is properly installed with Roxul insulation stuffed above, that will let the insert run hotter instead of losing a lot of heat to the outdoors. Right now I suspect it's being transferred to that mass of stone. If there is extra room behind the insert a layer of Roxul can be put behind the stove to further reduce heat transference to outdoors.

 

[Charles1981]

you have a stainless steel liner correct? and it is insulated?

 

[Eaglecraft]

I find myself warm and cozy on the evening before Christmas searching the internet for the assistance of an experienced flue installer to diagnose the performance my new Hampton 1300 wood insert. As it is, the sole source of my comfort is an electric blanket and my patience with the youthful original installer is worn thin. Happening across this website, reading of its members experience and the helpful insight shared, I am hopeful of being directed to someone local with the experience and background necessary to resolve the problem generating the amount of heat this insert is capable of. Nothing against youthful tradesmen, I was one once also, just opposed to his gaining experience at my expense.

Early last summer I purchased the Hampton 1300 insert from Berkshire Hearth and Home in Newtown, CT with the intent of reducing the reliance on propane to heat my 1050 square foot cottage on Candlewood Lake. I looked at many inserts, this unit was selected as well suited to provide the heat output necessary and the optional large surround just covered the opening of stone fireplace of the main room. I am most pleased with its appearance and the value received from my purchase. (see photo)

My dilemma began at the start of our heating season here in Connecticut, somewhere mid to late October, when temperatures began to drop below the 50’s and I could not heat the home above 67 degrees. I experienced delayed start up and short cycling of the blower also. Burning both red and white oak cut from my property, aged just about a year with moisture content measured between 20 and 12, the insert failed to heat the 14’ x 21’ room with 15’ cathedral ceiling. I am mindful of both the wood type and moisture content as this is where I was first directed to investigate by the owner of Berkshire Hearth and Home as the source of my problem, which I dutifully did.

After burning a full cord plus some during this three month period and failing to achieve satisfactory results the owner agreed to send his installer for a site visit to put my concerns to rest. In brief, the installer obtained a room temperature of 69 degrees with 80 degrees at the ceiling using wood he supplied. With an outside temperature of 46 degrees he concluded the insert output was sufficient, that the home was drafty and I should insulate.

I conceded a cottage constructed in 1934 is expected to be less than weather tight but took exception to the insert being unable to compensate especially on a most calm 46 degree day. Using a tissue I demonstrated the ”draft” to be air drawn to the insert intake during blower operation and, in my mind, dispelled the air leakage theory under existing conditions. The young installers’ demeanor suggested further discussion of delta T; heat transfer or air leakage would not be constructive or assist in reaching mutual agreement on the cause of, or solution to, the problem at hand.

The installer contracted by Berkshire Hearth and Home placed fiberglass insulation in the gap along the perimeter where the surround and stone face meet (see photo’s) which has not made a difference. He determined the blower assembly was not properly in place preventing contact between the thermal disc and stove which when reset solved the short cycling issue.

This is where the issue lies, thus my call for assistance.

I am not an expert on inserts or chimneys by any means; this is why I hired what I thought to be a professional. Perhaps inexperience precluded recognition of requirements for proper installation in a chimney of this type or the ramifications of an improper installation on insert efficiency. (see photos)

This said anything more I could offer would be conjecture; I defer to those with experience for direction and look forward to a response.

Jimmy H:

As Begreen and Charles 1981 suggested, you could be loosing a good deal of heat to your masonry chimney. The way to reduce these losses is to install a block-off plate that is insulated with Roxul. The block-off plate will reduce the amount of heat going up the chimney. Roxul (it's fireproof) can be "stuffed" into the cavity between the liner and the masonry chimney. Secondly, if you insulate the SS chimney liner that is connected to your stove, you can reduce the heat losses from your liner to your masonry chimney. If you don't have an SS liner installed (it's possible, but not likely), I suggest that have one installed.

Also, some circulation fans "aimed" at you stove may improve the situation.

Sounds like you have eliminated the "dry wood" issue, but you could double check this potential problem by purchasing a small amount of packaged "campfire" wood sold by grocery and convenience stores.

If you want to bring in an independent "expert," to help solve the problem, check these sources:

http://www.csia.org/ and http://www.ncsg.org/

Good luck in finding a solution to your woodstove insert heating issues.

 

[bluedogz]

Burning both red and white oak cut from my property, aged just about a year with moisture content measured between 20 and 12, the insert failed to heat the 14’ x 21’ room with 15’ cathedral ceiling. I am mindful of both the wood type and moisture content as this is where I was first directed to investigate by the owner of Berkshire Hearth and Home as the source of my problem, which I dutifully did.

Seems the owner started in the right place... it would be unusual for oak to get to 12-20% MC in only a year. Was that measured on a freshly-split face? Or on the outside of a split?
If the technician/kid could get the room hot "with wood he brought" that points a big red finger at the wood (to me).

That doesn't negate any other advice regarding the setup... it just happens disturbingly often around here that a huge number of complicated problems come down to "it's your wood."

Fast way to troubleshoot this is to throw in an armload of scrap lumber or pallets. Maybe even a bundle of supermarket wood. If the room gets warm, well, there you go.

 

[velvetfoot]

I'm getting good heat from my HI300.
Had a similar initial issue with the snap disk switch not making contact.
You use the fan all the time, right?

 

[mellow]

I to second that oak, especially red will not be 20% after a year unless you split it into match sticks. Looks like the chimney is 15 feet? If the liner is not insulated you might not be getting a good enough draft and with no block off plate all that heat will be sucked up by the masonry.

 

[Enzo's Dad]

I'm getting good heat from my HI300.
Had a similar initial issue with the snap disk switch not making contact.
You use the fan all the time, right?

I Installed a HI300 also this past week and I put a block of plate and alot of roxul. I have had great performance up until last night. Chritmas morning it was about 19 outside and i got the living room up to abour 76--77 the whole house was at 70. House is cape/ranch addition 2400 sq ft. I was happy until today living room will only get to 72-74 rest of house at 66-68. The outside temp is 26 today? I have been using the same wood from an ash tree.

Just wondering since we are talking about the same stove why would the performace vary so much? It is heating my whole house but i liked the fact that it was overperforming. The fan works fine.

Besides the obvious being wood, did i miss something?
Added note it is creeking alot when it runs i know this is from temp change, but how often should you hear it

 

[begreen]

I think it will heat a lot better once isolated from that large mass of masonry. Also, it this room has high ceiling it will need ceiling fans to move the heat at the peak of the ceiling.

 

[velvetfoot]

You know that you're not overfiring it, right? All those numbers look pretty good to me.
Here are some files of temps-we went away on Christmas, so we turned up the oil heat a couple hours before we came back

 

[Jimmy H]

Many thanks to all who found time to respond, very useful information and insight that is much appreciated. In truth my earlier venture into this site took me to a thread that began with a 2009 post by Sherry Ann I believe, she had the same issue with an identical insert. I read the very lengthy thread with great interest and its conclusion presented feedback and an ultimate solution as you suggest here. Having provided information specific to my home and receiving the direction you provide it’s most assuring that resolution is near.
While my background is in construction and facilities in general, I possess no expertise in the area of fireplace or stove use for heating and am not in a position to second guess when the potential for danger is present, especially in my home. My thought was that the installer, as a professional in the field, should have identified the need for a block off plate and insulation at the time of installation based on the construction of the chimney. Had the effect of these conditions on the inserts performance been recognized the issues I encountered could have been avoided. There is no substitute for experience gained over time in any field so I intend on sending a link to this thread to Berkshire Hearth and Home that they may benefit as I have and further solicit their assistance with a final solution. The links provided earlier by “Eaglecraft” appear to be a great resource also should the need present itself in the future.
The solution as I understand it is to install Roxul insulation above the firebox where the damper was and the stainless liner now exits. A piece of sheet metal cut to fit the area and allowing for the liner to pass through is set in place over the Roxul and sealed with either high temp caulk or furnace cement. The completed assembly becomes the block off plate. Miss anything?
Some remaining questions:
I have rock wool, is this a safesubstitute for Roxul?
Can the space between the insert and fireplace opening be in-filled also or is that not recommended? Is there a minimum clearance to be maintained between the insert and insulation?
The liner is not insulated and I read in the aforementioned 2009 post that vermiculite can be poured down the chimney to fill the cavity between the liner and chimney. Is this beneficial and what’s the downside? I am unsure of the anticipated life of the liner and it would seem to complicate replacement should it become necessary.
Thanks again, look forward to hearing back.

 

[begreen]

Dealers often are put in a competitive bid situation and leave out a block-off plate to get the job. It is not required unless there is a stubbed in installation. Mineral wool is satisfactory as long as it is plain and not paper backed. Roxul is a trade name for mineral wool batts.

Insulating the liner will improve draft when weather conditions are marginal by keeping the liner (and therefore the flue gases) hotter. This can also dramatically reduce creosote accumulation. Again, it is an extra. Folks often get sticker shock when presented the cost for a new stove plus a fully insulated and blocked off liner. This will cost extra. Give your dealer a chance to make you happy here.

 

[Jimmy H]

Dealers often are put in a competitive bid situation and leave out a block-off plate to get the job. It is not required unless there is a stubbed in installation. Mineral wool is satisfactory as long as it is plain and not paper backed. Roxul is a trade name for mineral wool batts.

Insulating the liner will improve draft when weather conditions are marginal by keeping the liner (and therefore the flue gases) hotter. This can also dramatically reduce creosote accumulation. Again, it is an extra. Folks often get sticker shock when presented the cost for a new stove plus a fully insulated and blocked off liner. This will cost extra. Give your dealer a chance to make you happy here.

I'm with you begreen, fully understand. Will be sure to post an outcome, thanks!

 

[Eaglecraft]

Jimmy H:

You further ask: "Can the space between the insert and fireplace opening be in-filled also or is that not recommended? Is there a minimum clearance to be maintained between the insert and insulation?
The liner is not insulated and I read in the aforementioned 2009 post that vermiculite can be poured down the chimney to fill the cavity between the liner and chimney. Is this beneficial and what’s the downside? I am unsure of the anticipated life of the liner and it would seem to complicate replacement should it become necessary."

Jimmy, other insert wood burners posting on this site have reported placing Roxul behind of and to the sides of their insert to reduce heat losses to masonry chimneys. I would think this practice would be OK as long as a sufficient air space - maybe 2 to 4 inches - is left between the the stove and the Roxul. Adequate air circulation around the stove is necessary, I think, to ensure safe and correct operation of the stove. Maybe check in with the stove manufacturer on this practice. By the way, it is possible to purchase Roxul "boards" in various thicknesses online from several suppliers. The "board" type Roxul would be superior, in my view, to "batt" type Roxul for this application because it is stiff, and can stand on edge on its own. I know this because I bought it and installed in my Clydesdale installation. It just so happens that I ordered my "board" Roxul from an outfit that does "acoustic" insulation.

Yes, you could pour "vermiculate" type insulation down your chimney to fill the void between the liner the terra-cotta flue. This is an acceptable approach. Some of this pour type insulation contains a small amount of Portland cement. You mix the stuff with a little water, and then pour it down from the roof top. It sets up in a solid form that can easily be broken out later on if needed. I don't know Jimmy - if it were me - I think that I would pull the liner from the chimney, insulate the liner - there are kits for this sold on the internet - and then reinstall the liner. It would depend on how hard a task it is to disengage the liner from the stove and pull it out of the flue. Sometimes this can be a "bear" of a job, sometimes relatively easy. Your SS liner should last many years - maybe 10 to 25? I'm assuming that it's UL listed and manufactured from a major supplier.

I wish you continued good luck in the coming year to solve your stove problems.