Happy Jotul 350 Winterport users out there?

[Jeb1heat]

I read a thread that said there were at least two Jotul 350 Winterport insert owners on this site. I like the look of the insert and It seems to be a good fit for our space. I read a negative review in a thread where the young lady stated that after spending all that money, she saw only a one degree rise in room temperature from her insert. Perhaps there was a problem with the set up. I would love to hear from any Jotul 350 Winterport users.

My wife and I have a modified cape @ 1,750 total and spend majority of time on 1st floor in living room/kitchen/dining. The space of these areas is not huge at 600 or so. Our plan is to use the insert for heating these spaces without having the main gas furnace kicking on at routine intervals. There is a ceiling fan in the living room where the insert would go. I could probably squeeze the kennebec 450 in, but I don't want to get overpowered in the immediate area either. Also, the original wood fireplace was converted to gas before I bought it. Can the existing gas line be capped prior to installing the insert? How difficult and costly of a job should that be? I greatly appreciate any help/information.


Thanks.

 

[sixminus1]

I read a thread that said there were at least two Jotul 350 Winterport insert owners on this site. I like the look of the insert and It seems to be a good fit for our space. I read a negative review in a thread where the young lady stated that after spending all that money, she saw only a one degree rise in room temperature from her insert. Perhaps there was a problem with the set up. I would love to hear from any Jotul 350 Winterport users.

My wife and I have a modified cape @ 1,750 total and spend majority of time on 1st floor in living room/kitchen/dining. The space of these areas is not huge at 600 or so. Our plan is to use the insert for heating these spaces without having the main gas furnace kicking on at routine intervals. There is a ceiling fan in the living room where the insert would go. I could probably squeeze the kennebec 450 in, but I don't want to get overpowered in the immediate area either. Also, the original wood fireplace was converted to gas before I bought it. Can the existing gas line be capped prior to installing the insert? How difficult and costly of a job should that be? I greatly appreciate any help/information.


Thanks.

Hi Jeb,

Welcome to the forum. I'm waiting to have the Winterport installed. My whole house is 800 sq ft. I also have a ceiling fan in the living room where the insert will go. I don't know if you'll have issues with the gas line -- sounds like you could cut it off and cap it far enough away from the fireplace for it to be safe, but someone else in the forum should chime in and verify that.

I don't have any info for you just yet, but I'll definitely do a detailed write-up once I can get it installed. I hope it will be before the end of Feb.

 

[jgoodnow]

I've had the 450 Kennebec since late December. My house is a 1,650 sf colonial. The floor plan is not particularly open, and I do not have a ceiling fan in my living room where the insert is installed. Even so, I can heat the whole house, albeit unevenly, down to an outside temperature of about 10 or 15. Below that, the boiler comes on. With the Kennebec, the living room gets to about 75 and the other rooms are in the mid to high 60s. A surprising amount heat gets upstairs a keeps the bedrooms comfortable. The coldest room is the kitchen, which is the room on the first floor furthest away from the insert. I burn nights and weekends, not 24/7.

We looked at the 350 Winterport and the 450 Kennebec. There was very little difference in price between the two units, maybe $100 on a total price of $3500 (this included stainless steel liner and installation). My advice, and the advice most often heard on this forum, is to get the larger unit. If you can meet all the size and clearance requirements for the Kennebec, then I would recommend that unit. Jotul does not publish their firebox sizes, but others on this site have estimated it to be about 2.2 cubic feet. The Winterport's firebox is probably well under 2 cubic feet. You'll be able to get longer burns with less tending with a larger firebox.

BeGreen of this forum highly recommends the blue/black porcelain enamel finish. There is a significant price premium for this finish, but I must admit I am having some regret that I didn't get it. I now see that the black matte finish will most likely get ratty within a couple of years.

 

[Roxburyeric]

therm, I am thinking of getting the 550 in the black matte finish - why do you think it will get ratty looking (this will be my first stove)? Also do you know the price increase for the 550?

 

[jgoodnow]

Roxburyeric, check out the following thread, and specifically BeGreen's post in that same thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/13321/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/13321/#147487

My sense is that the matte black will be dulled and/or slightly discolored over time. Also, I am seeing that the paint is going to wear off some of the high and/or rough spots on the cast iron doors (a black Sharpie can fix this). That said, you pay through the nose for the enamel finish and I couldn't justify paying so much more for a better paint job of just about the same color.

I don't know how much the 550 costs, but get at least three estimates. They will vary, probably by several hundred dollars. Make sure you understand what is included, e.g. heat shield, extra surrounds, stainless steel liner, insulated vs. uninsulated liner, installation, and so forth. Also make sure you understand exactly when the dealer will have the product in stock as the 550s have been in short supply this season. Good luck.

 

[boostnut]

Therm, you may be happy to hear that after 3 years of burning my matte black 450 the finish still looks new!

Jeb,If you're budget is so that you can only justify 1 upgrade from the Winterport I'd suggest the 450 kennebec before paying the premium for the winterport with a fancy paint job. With properly seasoned wood my 450 cruises at 300 - 350 degrees for upwards of 12 hours without much creosote buildup in the liner. Moral of the story is to buy the bigger unit and operate it at the lower end of the range. You'll be happy you did when the weather gets really cold and the winteport may not keep up.

 

[jgoodnow]

Therm, you may be happy to hear that after 3 years of burning my matte black 450 the finish still looks new!

Jeb,If you're budget is so that you can only justify 1 upgrade from the Winterport I'd suggest the 450 kennebec before paying the premium for the winterport with a fancy paint job.

I second that. I'm glad I have the 450 in matte black and not the 350 in enamel.

With properly seasoned wood my 450 cruises at 300 - 350 degrees for upwards of 12 hours without much creosote buildup in the liner. Moral of the story is to buy the bigger unit and operate it at the lower end of the range. You'll be happy you did when the weather gets really cold and the winteport may not keep up.

What kind of flaming are you getting during those long burns? When mine gets below about 400 degrees it tends to transition into the coaling phase. From 450 on up I get active flames with good secondary combustion, but this phase doesn't last very long, only a couple hours. I'm using mostly store-bought "seasoned hardwood" bundles.

 

[boostnut]

Therm, the flames are minimal at the lower operating temps, depends a lot on the wood being burnt. I'm usually burning mine to heat the space and don't get too concerned about the look of the fire and/or buildup on the doors. Run it up to 600 or so a couple of times a day and then let it cruise at lower temps.

 

[JimmyMood]

I have been running a Winterport since about mid-early January and I definitely had a wood burning learning curve as well as dealing with "seasoned" wood from a local dealer. My house about 1500 sqft, 2x4 walls with R19 insulation in the attic. Now that I have better wood, and I'm getting better at running the stove I can definitely say it has met my expectations. It turned my useless fireplace into a supplemental heater, it won't heat the whole house 24 hours a day but it makes the living room very cozy. I think for the "recreational" woodburner, it is a real handsome addition to the living room that throws a bunch of heat, but for someone trying to heat their house with wood alone it is probably inadequate.


Last night was about 20 degrees out. My home started at 56-57 degrees when I got home. From lighting the newspaper in the stove, till about 3 hours later my living room was at 68 and climbing and the far hallway was in the mid sixties. It stayed cold for a couple hours until the stove got going, but I just kind of tough it out. I think it was 70 or 71 degrees by the time I went to bed. Whoever said it only raised the room temperature 1 degree is trying to heat their 2000 sqft home to 80 degrees or they are doing something wrong.

That being said, if you can fit the Kennebec into your fireplace, I would go with that one. That was really the only reason I didn't go for the Kennebec, it didn't fit flush and I would have had to add a hearth extension to my fireplace. I was afraid it would blast me out of the living room too, but I don't think that will be an issue based on the Winterport's heat output. The Winterport does a fine job heating the house, but needs to be fed every 2 hours or so. Perhaps I'll have it going longer soon, but I just started figuring out how to get good burns with a full east-west load. It can keep coals for 8 or 9 hours, enough to get a fire going again but, my house drops back to 55 degrees and my boiler has to kick on in the morning before I get out of bed. I haven't figured out how long the stove actually heats the house for without being tended, I just know it doesnt last all night.

 

[Jeb1heat]

Thanks to all for the input on 350 vs. 450. This site is truly a wealth of helpful information. If anyone knows the scoop on capping off the existing gas line please advise.

 

[jadm]

Just want to put in my 2 cents worth on going bigger rather than smaller. I got a Napoleon 1101 3ish years ago based on the recommendation of the dealer who I figured knew his stuff. It was my first venture into wood burning in an insert. In other words - I knew nothing and trusted he knew what he was talking about.

My house is 1800 sq.ft., a ranch and room insert is in is about 11x14. On 40* days I have no problem keeping the temp at 74*. Below that temp. and this unit just can't keep up with it and burn efficiently. I get lots of coal build up that I can't burn down.

I began to search for a replacement and found this web site in my search to find consumer input on various brands of stoves/inserts. What a wealth of knowledge. I quickly learned that it is indeed better to buy a larger unit as you can always build a smaller fire. I choose the 550 Rockport and am waiting for it to be installed. ( It was supposed to go in today but we got snow so now I have to wait until Monday.) I choose the 550 because of the size of the fire box. I looked at the 350 and the 450 and their fire boxes were smaller than what I have now. The 550's fire box is bigger so it is the one I choose.

I have no experience with Jotuls but the feedback here seems to be that they are a good pick. Time will tell as I get experience burning with mine.

Have fun. You will probably end up burning more than you think you will once you see how nice it is :coolsmile:

 

[jgoodnow]

I looked at the 350 and the 450 and their fire boxes were smaller than what I have now.

perplexed, are you sure about that? The Napoleon 1101 firebox is listed in the brochure as 1.7 cf. Jotul does not publish their firebox sizes but a couple people here measured/estimated their Kennebec 450 firebox size at about 2.2 cf. I don't know about the 350 but it's probably under 2 cf. At any rate, the 550 is clearly way bigger than what you have now so you should not have any problems heating your space. I can heat my 1650 sf house pretty well with the 450 down to well under 20 F outside temp. I cannot prevent the boiler from coming on when it gets below 10 F.

 

[jadm]

I don't know how to pull out part of quotes so the whole thing gets quoted. The firebox in my Napoleon is a rectangle - all surfaces flat. The 450 has a sloped 'roof' - where the air tubes are situated which takes up firebox space and the air wash space by the door also cuts into the space making it smaller than what I have now.

I would venture to guess that you are getting more heat out of your unit due to it's construction - ie. probably better at heating up if that is possible - I don't know. I didn't want to take the risk of buying a 450 and finding out I had gone too small again. I know I wouldn't be able to fit as many logs in it as I can in my Napoleon because of the shape of it.

Before I made my decision I went to many dealers in our area and looked at the fireboxes and how they were constructed. I paid particular attention to the air tube/baffle arrangement as some aren't held in firmly. I'm wondering if the 450 gets it's larger measurement by being longer? It still doesn't have the height I have in my Napoleon. Anyway, I decided on the 550 and one was available so I will see how that goes. I do know it has a bigger box than what I have now and am looking forward to that!

I looked at the 350 and the 450 and their fire boxes were smaller than what I have now.

perplexed, are you sure about that? The Napoleon 1101 firebox is listed in the brochure as 1.7 cf. Jotul does not publish their firebox sizes but a couple people here measured/estimated their Kennebec 450 firebox size at about 2.2 cf. I don't know about the 350 but it's probably under 2 cf. At any rate, the 550 is clearly way bigger than what you have now so you should not have any problems heating your space. I can heat my 1650 sf house pretty well with the 450 down to well under 20 F outside temp. I cannot prevent the boiler from coming on when it gets below 10 F.

 

[jgoodnow]

perplexed, I think the 550 is a great-looking unit and I would have bought it myself if a) it fit into my fireplace, and b) it was available at the time. You're right, the 450 is too close in specs to the Napoleon to be worth the upgrade, so you're better off making the bigger jump to the 550. But the main reason I asked about firebox sizes was because of your earlier comment:

My house is 1800 sq.ft., a ranch and room insert is in is about 11x14. On 40* days I have no problem keeping the temp at 74*. Below that temp. and this unit just can’t keep up with it and burn efficiently. I get lots of coal build up that I can’t burn down.

Something doesn't seem right here. It seems like you ought to be able to heat your house with the outside temp less than 40 F, even with a smallish firebox (although not for particularly long burns). I often don't even bother to make fire when it's 40 out because the house pretty much keeps itself warm with people, lights, and appliances. That might be a slight exaggeration but you get the idea. Have you ruled out other reasons for having trouble heating your house? For example, is your house insulated? Not too much air infiltration? Good windows? Do you have a block-off plate with insulation? Dry wood? If any of these things are problems now, then they will remain problems even with the Jotul 550.

 

[jadm]

Therm- I should have been more explicit in describing my set up. Room with the insert in it is open to 3 other rooms which stay reasonably warm with a strong fire going. (70*-74*) About 900 sq.ft. are out of reach of the heat due to how they are situated and how our ceilings are constructed. That's okay because we spend 99% of our time in the warm rooms.

The problem I have with the Napoleon is that I get a lot of coal build up which limits how much wood I can put into it by mid afternoon without removing some of the coals. I'm hoping with the Jotul that I can get higher temps with a load of wood and that at higher temps I will get the coals to burn more efficiently. I also got frustrated with the blower set up on the Napoleon as it is located on the back of the unit and very hard to get to to clean.

My house is insulated and pretty air tight - we have good windows too. I have an internal masonary chimney with a block off plate at the top of it.

Generally my wood is very dry. This year I did get some that was green and, although it has dried out quite a bit, it does burn cooler if I don't catch the less seasoned logs

before they go onto the fire.

I decided to go for the 550 because I wanted to be able to make bigger/hotter fires and let them cruise longer than what I now get.

I'm pretty new at burning and am just experimenting to see if a larger unit will make a difference. I also didn't know what I was doing when I got the Napoleon and I didn't know about this web site. I went to the closest store and looked at what they had and relied on their 'expertice' - which I found out later was non-existent. I wasn't ready to spend a whole lot on an insert when I didn't know how it would all work out here. We have been burning for 3 winters now and I am very happy with it and decided the extra money for a Jotul is worth it. I also really like how the Jotul looks.....

Give me a few years with the Jotul and I will let you know if we think it is worth it!

 

[JimmyMood]

I hear talk about firebox volume, but haven't seen Winterport data here yet. I just measured the Winterport firebox. The sides taper towards the back, so the width measurement is taken halfway to the back of the firebox.

9" high, bottom to the secondary burn tube
22" wide
11" deep, from the andirons to the back wall, 12" from the door opening to the back wall.

Puts the firebox volume around 1.3 to 1.4 cuft depending on how you call the depth. I find the phrase "usable" firebox volume around here frequently, so the low end figure subtracts the area in front of the andirons. The manual says to keep the logs behind the andirons, but they are only about 1" high so after a couple loads they are buried and I can't find them anyways.

My Winterport came with this iron bar that fits into the bottom of the door opening to raise the height of said opening. It looks like the opening was made too low and they added the bar as an afterthought. I can't find it on the parts diagram, do any other the other Winterport owners have this bar?