Kinda of OT for this forum but can't think of anywhere else better to ask this question. My father is 86 and has heated his house with a Nashau wood stove since the mid 70's. He's had COPD for years (chronic bronchitis and emphysema) and it has gotten worse recently. His doctor and me are trying to convince him he needs to stop heating with wood simply because of the ash and other contaminates that inevetablely get into the air (especially from a stove so old) but are having a hard time selling him on doing it. I've been looking around for the net for any kind of studies, or even anadotial stories but haven't hit on much yet. Can anyone here point me anywhere?
Heating with Wood and COPD
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HotCoals
Minister of Fire
Leave the guy alone..I'm sure he really enjoys burning wood. Plus it gives him something else to do that I'm sure gives him satisfaction.
I really doubt that it is hurting him. If nothing else buy him a newer stove!
I really doubt that it is hurting him. If nothing else buy him a newer stove!
Iembalm4aLiving
Feeling the Heat
HotCoals said:
I agree. I imagine that at 86 burning wood is one of the few pleasures left. Don't take that away from him!
Jager
Member
Aye, figure heating with wood is among the oldest of human activities. If you want to do anything, buy him one of the newer EPA stoves. My new BK is significantly cleaner - I'm talking about smoke and particulates that end up in the living room, not what goes up the chimney, although that's vastly cleaner as well - than my old stove.
Leave your dad to what surely is a pleasure to him.
Leave your dad to what surely is a pleasure to him.
Here's the deal: HE'S 86. You take this away from him what does he have to do? I have no scientific evidence to back this up other than observation but you take away a persons reasons for moving and getting the blood pumping a bit you kill them quicker than any airborne contamenent. Let the guy be and be happy that he he can still stoke a fire and haul in a load of wood. At this point it's not about you it's about him and what makes him happy. Stoking a good fire and petting a good dog (get him one if he ain't got one) are good reasons to make it another day.
firecracker_77
Minister of Fire
Give him an air purifier and a newer stove like others have said. Don't take anything away from him at this age. He obviously loves burning that thing. I know how important my stove is to me as part of my workplace environment. It would suck being at work without it.
HotCoals
Minister of Fire
You said it better then I did and the dog idea is a great thought if it's possible.rwhite said:
Maybe someone could help with cleaning out the ashes also.
All that said it's great of the thread starter to really care about his dad. In this case though if the guy has good balance and movement I think the benefits of burning wood out weigh the negatives.
Can you get him a pallet of bio bricks? Less ash, less clean up - if he likes them good, if not he keeps burning wood. The one thing I would keep an eye on is if he has to use oxygen, those tanks have contributed to many house fires.
MarkinNC
Minister of Fire
Chronic bronchitis and Emphysema tend to be progressive. One would think it is not the cause of his COPD just based on the time frame alone. The medical literature does list burning wood as a risk factor for COPD. I advocate for EPA stoves because of this. I hope I'm still burning wood at 86.
Hmm, interesting. I had no idea we had so many Counselors/Social Workers/Mental Health Experts as members here. C'mon folks...not a one of us knows this gentleman, nor are we family members, nor is any one among us in a position to make any sort of informed, professional recommendation to the OP. As to all the advice about just letting him be...perhaps you haven't ever (yet) been in the OP's shoes. Both the OP and the gentleman's physician are concerned about the particulates in the air in the living space. Two people have suggested a newer stove and/or some sort of air purifier. I think those things are worth a look, for sure. But what the OP asked for was any leads on some sort of information that presumably could be presented to the gentleman that would change his mind so that he would allow a change in his personal environment. Yeah, it's way out of our "mainstream" here on these forums, but is anybody aware of anything like that? I really don't think that "Oh, let the old guy die." is particularly helpful. Rick
"I really don’t think that “Oh, let the old guy die.†is particularly helpful." Rick -who said that or are you para-phrasing?
google for copd wood burning
What about a pellet stove? no major mess and he still gets to enjoy his fire.
What about a pellet stove? no major mess and he still gets to enjoy his fire.
I know of no studies to help you out. But I will recommend that at 86 you don't go trying to put a different stove in there. The gentleman can run that thing like a new watch in his sleep by now. And does not need the grief and confusion it would cause him trying to start over with another one.
I hope you can convince him to use an alternative heat source to the stove. But the chances are pretty slim. My point of reference there isn't scientific. It is/was my 86 year old father before he passed away.
Take good care of the gentleman. As you obviously are.
I hope you can convince him to use an alternative heat source to the stove. But the chances are pretty slim. My point of reference there isn't scientific. It is/was my 86 year old father before he passed away.
Take good care of the gentleman. As you obviously are.
HotCoals
Minister of Fire
This line says a lot.
His doctor and me are trying to convince him he needs to stop heating with wood simply because of the ash and other contaminates that inevetablely get into the air (especially from a stove so old) but are having a hard time selling him on doing it.
I don't think we have to have a degree to take a guess has to why the older guy wants to continue on burning.
Sure,it might not be the best for him medically wise because of his COPD..but mentally,priceless I bet.
Anyways..a greenine forum will give the OP what he is looking for.
Try treehugers.com.
His doctor and me are trying to convince him he needs to stop heating with wood simply because of the ash and other contaminates that inevetablely get into the air (especially from a stove so old) but are having a hard time selling him on doing it.
I don't think we have to have a degree to take a guess has to why the older guy wants to continue on burning.
Sure,it might not be the best for him medically wise because of his COPD..but mentally,priceless I bet.
Anyways..a greenine forum will give the OP what he is looking for.
Try treehugers.com.
I hope it all works out and I agree on the new woodburner not being a good idea, I can see his first post now, whats a matter with this piece of sheet.BrotherBart said:
HotCoals
Minister of Fire
oldspark said:
Maybe..but if the OP directed him to this site we could have a new member to help out!
Maybe he could be the oldest member!
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
46 years old here, with Emphysema, and still battling smoking cigs.
The wood burning does not affect my Emphysema. The smoking does. I have a good hold on it, and will kick that habit, already mostly have.
I have a great woman I want to spend as much time as I got left with.
How long do you expect the good ol guy to live? Do you want him to enjoy the time he has left?
Should he not eat steak either and just eat tofu and veggies? No booze or beer? Etc. etc. etc.
Let the good ol boy enjoy what he has left.
The wood burning does not affect my Emphysema. The smoking does. I have a good hold on it, and will kick that habit, already mostly have.
I have a great woman I want to spend as much time as I got left with.
How long do you expect the good ol guy to live? Do you want him to enjoy the time he has left?
Should he not eat steak either and just eat tofu and veggies? No booze or beer? Etc. etc. etc.
Let the good ol boy enjoy what he has left.
I think the only way it is a problem is if you have a crappy system and get smoke back in the house or go outside and stand in the smoke, not sure about "ash flying around", that sounds like a stretch also, just my thinking. I think we need an opinion from a 80 year old and I agree with hog, let the guy live in peace. I understand the loved ones concerns though.
I have similar issues with my father that is 99 and lives by himself. If this 86yo can heat with wood (we all know how difficult it is) and is doing it in a efficient manner (without smoking up the house or causing a fire hazard) he should be left to make up his own mind. Its still a free country. If however he does not (burn in an efficient manner) and can not conduct all his own affairs (personal and business), than its a different story.
Everyone has a different opinion as to how people should be treated when they get old. For me it comes down to independence. If the individual is still thriving and independent its their decision. If they are not then someone must take over. There is sometimes a fine line, sometimes its obvious.
If he is still independent, the air purifier sounds like a good idea, probably more for the dust than the theoretical smoke.
Everyone has a different opinion as to how people should be treated when they get old. For me it comes down to independence. If the individual is still thriving and independent its their decision. If they are not then someone must take over. There is sometimes a fine line, sometimes its obvious.
If he is still independent, the air purifier sounds like a good idea, probably more for the dust than the theoretical smoke.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
For ashes, something like this will help a lot:
Ash holder
As for the question, no, we do not know the exact state of this man's health and most of us are not doctors. However, we have dealt with similar circumstances and in most cases I have to agree that if the man wants to continue burning wood then let him. Besides, he may also have a financial reason for burning wood and the worries about being able to pay for gas, oil or electricity may have some influence on his attitude.
I am not yet his age but am well over retirement age and I can tell you that I do have a minor breathing problem but it is not bothered at all when we start burning wood every fall. I also have burned with several pre-EPA stoves and with the exceptions of one we never seemed to have a smoke problem at all. And as I've stated on this forum many times, cleaning ashes without getting dust is very simple and easy. I learned this before I was 6 years old. If a child can learn it, most of us adults can too. But in the case of this 86 year old man, he may be very unsteady and not able to handle cleaning ashes like most can so an ash holder with a lid might help.
My hat is off to the man for burning wood well into his 80's. I hope to do the same.
Ash holder
As for the question, no, we do not know the exact state of this man's health and most of us are not doctors. However, we have dealt with similar circumstances and in most cases I have to agree that if the man wants to continue burning wood then let him. Besides, he may also have a financial reason for burning wood and the worries about being able to pay for gas, oil or electricity may have some influence on his attitude.
I am not yet his age but am well over retirement age and I can tell you that I do have a minor breathing problem but it is not bothered at all when we start burning wood every fall. I also have burned with several pre-EPA stoves and with the exceptions of one we never seemed to have a smoke problem at all. And as I've stated on this forum many times, cleaning ashes without getting dust is very simple and easy. I learned this before I was 6 years old. If a child can learn it, most of us adults can too. But in the case of this 86 year old man, he may be very unsteady and not able to handle cleaning ashes like most can so an ash holder with a lid might help.
My hat is off to the man for burning wood well into his 80's. I hope to do the same.
madison
Minister of Fire
Regarding COPD: Dust, smoke, low humidity, molds can exacerbate reactive airways (asthma) and COPD. And especially carbon monoxide would really put a hurtin' on oxygen delivery in a COPD compromised patient... All of which could potentially be associated with burning wood and gathering/storing wood.
I would agree with the MD that optimizing the environment that you live will optimize the patient's remaining lung function, which his goal as the health care provider.
The other side of this is the psychological aspect of changing the "lifestyle" of an 86 YO .... We all know how hard it is to change our habits.
One of many links regarding wood stoves and copd : http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/27/3/542.short
Search - COPD wood stoves - at Google Scholar : http://scholar.google.com/schhp?hl=en&tab=ws
I would agree with the MD that optimizing the environment that you live will optimize the patient's remaining lung function, which his goal as the health care provider.
The other side of this is the psychological aspect of changing the "lifestyle" of an 86 YO .... We all know how hard it is to change our habits.
One of many links regarding wood stoves and copd : http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/27/3/542.short
Search - COPD wood stoves - at Google Scholar : http://scholar.google.com/schhp?hl=en&tab=ws
babzog
Member
Leave your Dad to the joys of his fire. Help him get the wood CSS and maybe even brought in but please don't insist he give up his warm fire. Why not go over and enjoy it with him rather than moan about the few remaining pleasures in his life.
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