Help! Pole barn stove suggestions

[mgarrett88]

Looking for a bit of help in a decision making process.

I am going to heat a section of my pole barn that will be insulated 32x36x12.

I have been all over the internet looking at reviews on stoves. Every time I think that I have a stove that I think will work I get mixed reviews. So I am looking for advice from this forum and yes I have read a ton of the reviews on this site. I have received many good tips from other forums that I belong to and would appreciate the help.


I will not be living, or working in the shop full time. It is just to have out there when I am in there working on projects, having friends over, drying out ice fishing gear, and so on. We have insulation in the concrete, R20 foam board in the wall and R30 blown in insulation in the ceiling. I live in Mid-Michigan.


I am looking for a stove for under $1000 (for the stove, i know the pipe will cost extra as well. Something that will last and that is easy to use. I do not think I would buy anything by U.S. stove company as I know some of my friends have had bad experience with them. Some I am interested in are Vogelzang Durangoo, Pacific Energy TN19 (although pretty pricy), Englander NC30 or the NC13, Drolet blackcomb/Columbia. All of these I am researched and have found mixed reviews, I feel like I will get that with anything but looking for honest advice.


So please feel free to give suggestions help me out and ask questions if need be. The more input the better.

 

[claydogg84]

Many members of this site love the NC30.

 

[bholler]

Well vagelzang is us stove company as well and it may be their worst line. But the 30 nc would be my on budget choice out of them. Drolet doesn't make bad stoves at all but i think that one will be to small for you

 

[zig]

Go to Menards and get the Englander. Buddy's got one in his shop on casters so he can move it in summer and I threaten to tow it away every time i leave his place. Heating monster and my next stove.

 

[mgarrett88]

Yes i have read on here a lot that the 30NC is favored. Will I need the 30 over the 13 for the area I am trying to heat, or is the bigger stove box with the extra money?

 

[mgarrett88]

Zig if your in Caro your right down the road
I live in Vassar

 

[Highbeam]

In your application, you can't go too big. My nc30 is burning in my 30x60 pole barn right now. Good stove. Wish it made twice as much heat.

 

[jeff_t]

If you don't plan on heating it 24/7, I suggest considering a wood burning furnace. They make a lot of heat fast, and move a lot more air than a stove blower. I could heat my drafty, uninsulated basement from 50 to tee shirt weather in about an hour with my hotblast furnace from TSC.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

I wouldn't hesitate going with a 30, but if a TN19 is on your list I recently priced one for less than a grand at our local dealer. $1200 with blower. Just food for thought.

 

[Highbeam]

If you don't plan on heating it 24/7, I suggest considering a wood burning furnace. They make a lot of heat fast, and move a lot more air than a stove blower. I could heat my drafty, uninsulated basement from 50 to tee shirt weather in about an hour with my hotblast furnace from TSC.

Since no furnaces are clean enough to be legal in WA I am stuck with a big stove. Things are changing though and soon there will be some options. The other nice thing about a furnace, or even a BK, is that they are thermostatic. Meaning you can load that sucker up and walk away or finish your work after two hours and let the stove run by itself for the next 4 hours with confidence that it will take care of itself. I'm not there with the NC30, seems I need to keep an eye on it and adjust the air down to prevent the overfire and then back up to keep it clean burning later in the burn.

Could also consider a pellet stove for the pole barn but if you did that then you couldn't burn the lumber scraps.

 

[begreen]

Is that right? I thought that BK (Apex), Kuuma (VaporFire), and Napoleon (HMF100 & 150) make clean EPA furnaces that meet WA state emissions requirements. Are there other restrictions?

 

[zig]

Zig if your in Caro your right down the road
I live in Vassar

Then your 15 Min. closer to Menards than me.

 

[mgarrett88]

i have thought about the wood furnace idea but have herd nothing but bad news about the hot blast furnace offered at TSC. Done anyone have input on any others?

 

[Highbeam]

Is that right? I thought that BK (Apex), Kuuma (VaporFire), and Napoleon (HMF100 & 150) make clean EPA furnaces that meet WA state emissions requirements. Are there other restrictions?

WA state requires 4.5 gph. The new EPA furnace regs require a lbs per Mbtu or some other incompatible measure of cleanliness. Don't expect any legal furnaces in WA until our regulations are updated to match.

The kuuma was never EPA certified for anything. The caddy line is EPA certified as a stove but makes 6.6 gph. The BK is clean enough but I don't recall it being EPA certified either. No idea on the Napoleon.

 

[Buzz Saw]

i have thought about the wood furnace idea but have herd nothing but bad news about the hot blast furnace offered at TSC. Done anyone have input on any others?

Burned a Hot Blast in my Garage for 7 years. I could bring a 40x50x10 garage from 38* to 60* in an hour at 15* outside temp. The hot blast will eat wood, but I only burned 1.5 cord a season in the garage.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it again for short term heating like you are looking at doing.

 

[begreen]

WA state requires 4.5 gph. The new EPA furnace regs require a lbs per Mbtu or some other incompatible measure of cleanliness. Don't expect any legal furnaces in WA until our regulations are updated to match.

The kuuma was never EPA certified for anything. The caddy line is EPA certified as a stove but makes 6.6 gph. The BK is clean enough but I don't recall it being EPA certified either. No idea on the Napoleon.

The units I mentioned are more in the 3.6gph range except for the Kuuma which they report is Intertek lab tested at 4.5gph. All within WA reqs I think. Yes, Caddy is high right now though I heard SBI is working on a new model. I can't find a WA state certified boiler or furnace listing. Could be that the bureaucracy has not done their homework yet.

 

[brenndatomu]

Well vagelzang is us stove company as well and it may be their worst line

Just FYI, the newer Vogelzang EPA stoves are a lot better than their old junk, probably still not gonna impress anybody that has owned better name stoves...but WAY better than the stuff that has given them their black eye/name.
I have a VZ Defender stove (couldn't pass it up for $399) and after working around a couple things that have bugged me about the way it works..I like it

 

[Highbeam]

The units I mentioned are more in the 3.6gph range except for the Kuuma which they report is Intertek lab tested at 4.5gph. All within WA reqs I think. Yes, Caddy is high right now though I heard SBI is working on a new model. I can't find a WA state certified boiler or furnace listing. Could be that the bureaucracy has not done their homework yet.

Kuuma actually claims less than one GPH but has never been certified by EPA. Soon though.

The furnace needs to be EPA certified to less than 4.5 gph. Some are EPA certified and some are less than 4.5 gph but none are both EPA certified and under 4.5 gph. Haven't you noticed that none of the retail stores, even the Menards equivalents, do not offer furnaces in our state?

 

[begreen]

The Kuuma spec was direct from their website. Truth be told this is the first time I have looked into WA state wood furnaces. I don't get into big box stores very much and typically high end furnaces (or wood stoves) are not sold there. I found a paucity of info on wood furnaces on WA state sites. Up until the recent changes were these units exempt? I think that will change with the new EPA rules.
Here's what Napoleon specs their unit at:
Napoleon’s Hybrid HMF150 combination furnace is an extremely clean burning wood furnace, with an efficiency rating of 88.6% and emissions of 3.4 grams per hour. (broken link removed to http://www.napoleonheatingandcooling.com/products/hmf150-furnace/)
If BK can't sell their clean cat Apex Furnace in WA state, the state of manufacture, that is indeed ironic. Investigating further.

 

[mgarrett88]

well i think i am going to say i have made up my mind. i think after talking to a few people and research i am going to get an englander nc30 i am going to wait till spring hopefully they will go on sale after season. i think with the area i am heating and the fact that i will have a lp furnace keeping it at 40-45 degrees constant that this stove will do me just fine.

 

[begreen]

Sale times vary. Did you try this option for the 30NC?
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-30-nch-now-on-sale-649.142223/

 

[Highbeam]

The Kuuma spec was direct from their website.

Then you made a mistake, the kuuma site says 0.45 gph. It's a great furnace with no window.

(broken link removed)

 

[Highbeam]

Then you made a mistake, the kuuma site says 0.45 gph. It's a great furnace with no window.

(broken link removed)

Napolean also didn't get an EPA cert that I could find on their site.

What you'll find is that the EPA stove test is not compatible with how most furnaces work. So companies didn't test them or couldn't pass. That is why there is now an EPA furnace test. The trick will be getting the very specific WA state law to embrace the EPA furnace test that does not use GPH anymore.

BK also makes stoves in Canadia. My princess came from Canadia. Maybe their furnaces too. I have been told that warm air furnaces are much more popular in Canadia. As is the 7" flue REQUIRED for that BK furnace.

 

[Highbeam]

well i think i am going to say i have made up my mind. i think after talking to a few people and research i am going to get an englander nc30 i am going to wait till spring hopefully they will go on sale after season. i think with the area i am heating and the fact that i will have a lp furnace keeping it at 40-45 degrees constant that this stove will do me just fine.

You'll love it. I got mine in October and was happy to use it right away.

 

[begreen]

Right you are, thx. I checked in a bit more and found some back story on the furnaces in WA state. A while back WA state decided to not allow EPA wood burner exemptions any more. All had to be on the EPA's approved list. The wood cook stove community pushed back hard and got an exemption, but it appears that did not happen for wood furnaces.

I suspect the furnace companies didn't get their units EPA tested because they are were essentially unregulated. EPA testing is expensive so why do it if not required? That now has changed and I think we will see these companies getting their units tested instead of being banned. WA state regs will need to adapt to these changes.