I have my doubt!

[BrotherBart]

It took me a season to get a handle on the 30-NC and when I complained about it my wife was kind enough to remind me that it also took a season back in 1985 for me to get the hang of the old stove. Which I could also run in my sleep. Think I did a bunch of times.

 

[dispatcher101]

I'm thinking the fires are too small to see this happen, I guess I should have built a bigger fire this morning.

Likely so. Your break in should be done by now and the moisture gone from the brick (the specific heat capacity of water is 4 times that of firebrick). Get it ripping hot with a good load, open those windows and let the fresh air in. You just may be pleasantly surprised.

I have to agree. the difference in heat output between stove top temps of 400 degrees and 650-700 degrees is immense. I have a T5 which takes forever to get the cast iron shell on the outside up to operating temps. The heat output of the stove is greatly improved once everything comes up to temp. I would suggest a higher stove top temp for a sustained amount of time; may require a large overnight burn with colder outside temps to get the best results. Atleast with my T5 which is the medium sized PE fire box it just cruises at 650 degrees with the air all the way down; and once it gets going; it gets there in a hurry. Watch the stove temps but don't get too alarmed. (if you have the ash pan just make sure it is well packed with ash to avoid any leaks)

Also; with it being a more convective stove once it gets up to temp it then radiantly heats the other objects in the room which in turn heat the air in the room. It is a long process; but provides a very nice heat. Don't give in yet

 

[Hogwildz]

If you want to "feel" the heat blasting at you like a radiant stove, get the blower for it. You will feel a BIG difference.
As far as the pipe temps, where are you setting the air control lever at once its up to temp?
I have the Summit insert, and heat a 2600 sf home with it, no problems sitting round in shorts.

 

[laynes69]

I've been through season 1 with our new EPA woodfurnace and I finally got the hang of it. But... Now I will have seasoned wood and we are getting a liner so it will be a learning curve once again. Our old furnace was extremely easy to operate, and didn't care what went into it. Its not the same for the new one. I doubted ours for a little while, but when we needed the heat it pulled through. We are happy now and its performance will be better with the liner. This was the first year we had wood left over, and we used 2+ less cords than previous years. It was well worth the upgrade. Once you get things figured out I'm sure you will be happy.

 

[Hogwildz]

I've been through season 1 with our new EPA woodfurnace and I finally got the hang of it. But... Now I will have seasoned wood and we are getting a liner so it will be a learning curve once again. Our old furnace was extremely easy to operate, and didn't care what went into it. Its not the same for the new one. I doubted ours for a little while, but when we needed the heat it pulled through. We are happy now and its performance will be better with the liner. This was the first year we had wood left over, and we used 2+ less cords than previous years. It was well worth the upgrade. Once you get things figured out I'm sure you will be happy.

This was my 4th season here burning my then new Summit.
I don't know if it was the wood, my burning habit, or the issue fixes last fall, but I usually went through 4 or 5 including shoulder to shoulder.
Lat year I burned about 3-1/2 cord. The long row I had stacked, actually has 1/2 the wood still laying there, ready for next year.
The first year is the hump, but I think even a couple years later if you experiment and trial and error, you hone the usage and success even more.
Just have to relearn, thats all, which you gotta do going from any stove to a different stove.

 

[begreen]

please tell me you have the fan on it - and seriously: something is up, here.

You do not think that is correct, the stack temp was higher during the whole burn with them both at about 400 at one time, this was a fairly small fire and yes I have the fan. Thermometers could not be accurate so I switched them around and will see if it changes. Should the stove top be higher than the stack during the whole burn?

The flue temp will change depending on the part of the burn cycle. When the stove is starting up, the flue is often much hotter than the stovetop. It takes time to heat up its mass. So it is not untypical for me to see 6-800 degree flue temps on start up. Then as the wood starts to really burn and outgas I decrease the air. At that point secondary combustion kicks in. Flue temps decrease and stove top temp increases. Once the wood is fully engaged and burning well, I run a hot stove with the air all the way closed. Flue temps drop to about 400 while the stove top is passing 600. Note my flue temps are with a probe thermometer.

 

[precaud]

Oldspark, it may be that the stove is working fine but you just aren’t used to/don’t prefer the way it gives off heat.

Yes, compared to an old radiant stove, a convector gives off "sneaky" heat.

The specific heat capacity of firebrick is more than twice that of steel or cast iron. Firebrick has a specific heat capacity of .25 BTU/lb ºF (steel is around .11) so a 4 pound brick takes 1 BTU to raise it 1º F, or 600 BTU to raise it 600ºF. Multiply that by the number of firebricks in your stove and you will see that there is an awful lot of heat needed to get that stove up to operating temp.

Agreed with the concept, except the PE bricks don't weigh anywhere near 4 lbs each, more like 1.3 lbs. But your point makes the argument yet again for lightweight, highly insulated firebox liners...

oldspark, overall it sounds to me like you've only burned small fires, and haven't yet burned a load big enough to even get the stove up to operating temps. Add to that an 8" clay-lined chimney and warm temps outside, and you're not going to get that stove burning anywhere near as hot now as you will in the middle of winter. If you had an insulated stainless liner, you could make up somewhat for the warm outside temps by burning smaller, hotter fires. But, the clay chimney normalizes that one out. It's high mass, not a great insulator, and puts a damper on getting chimney temps up.

 

[summit]

please tell me you have the fan on it - and seriously: something is up, here.

You do not think that is correct, the stack temp was higher during the whole burn with them both at about 400 at one time, this was a fairly small fire and yes I have the fan. Thermometers could not be accurate so I switched them around and will see if it changes. Should the stove top be higher than the stack during the whole burn?

once you get her going, the top should be hotter than the stack

 

[oldspark]

please tell me you have the fan on it - and seriously: something is up, here.

You do not think that is correct, the stack temp was higher during the whole burn with them both at about 400 at one time, this was a fairly small fire and yes I have the fan. Thermometers could not be accurate so I switched them around and will see if it changes. Should the stove top be higher than the stack during the whole burn?

once you get her going, the top should be hotter than the stack

I changed the thermometers around and the two vary alot so will play with those, I started the fire much quicker this morning using a little different method and it worked well so am happier already.

 

[begreen]

Who said you can't teach an oldspark new tricks? :coolsmile: You'll get the hang of it. Enjoy the light show!

 

[SKIN052]

Dont keep the method to yourself, how did you light it?

 

[BrotherBart]

Dont keep the method to yourself, how did you light it?

Thermite grenade? :coolgrin:

 

[oldspark]

Dont keep the method to yourself, how did you light it?

Well the top down method just doesn't work for me so knowing its ok to cheat (door open a little) I kind of made a sandwich of two small splits NS paper in between them and kindling on top EW plus a little more paper and another couple of small splits NS and it started much quicker with me closing the door in about 15 minutes and it burnt well after that. Not much different then some of the suggestions on here from all these fine folk.

 

[laynes69]

Our old unit put out more heat at once, but was hard to control the temperature in the home. Either freeze or sweat nothing inbetween. Our new unit can be set at 72 and the house will stay there, its nice and even. Even though the old furnace put out more heat, we used less LP for the winter with the new furnace. It took us some getting used to with the lower temps 70-74, but we realized we wasted alot of wood when the house was 75-80. EPA units sure are different animals.

 

[rdust]

Posts like these make me happy I started with an EPA stove. From what I've read on here going from old to new you have to start over anyway.

It sounds like you're getting it figured out, I'm sure you'll love it when you can let it stretch it's legs. When I was installing my Lopi I tried to read all the messages I could about starting a fire in these EPA stove. My first fire I tried the top down method, after being less then impressed I decided it wasn't for me. I may revisit it someday but that's unlikely. :lol: I find what works well for me is similar to what you're doing. Two small splits loaded n/s, gap between them with a 1/4 starter log and some small splits to fill the gap. After 5 minutes or less I can close the door and have a pretty decent fire going. The best method for me is to burn some kindling down and then load the splits on the coal bed left from the kindling, this involves a little more time though so lately I'm going the other route.

 

[summit]

I never had much luck w/ the top down method: the log cabin stack in the stove with all the tinder in the middle works best for me.