I painted my wall dark brown - now its 185 degrees.....too hot?

[jwscarab]

Hi all, long time no talk! I hope everybody had a great Thanksgiving!

Quick question, I have a Adelera T6, its a few incles further than the manual says to put it from a non heat shielded side wall. This is on the side of the stove, not rear. It think its like 15" but I can check.

Anyway last year the wall was drywall in white primer and it always got to 135 degrees max so I wasnt too worried. Now over the summer I painted the wall dark brown. Last night I started my first fire Upon max stove temp when I went to shut down the air, the wall was 185 degrees using my IR. Is this too hot??

 

[pen]

That would be my max comfort zone right there. But if it is by the manual specs, then you are fine. When they say the clearance to combustibles is X, that means any color combustible wall.

Just make sure that you double check that you are, a drawing / pic here and we could confirm your distances if you want.

pen

 

[Jags]

With a 70 Deg ambient room temp, you are at the MAX limit of safe temp zone.

 

[webbie]

Yeah, that's really getting close! When the testing is done, they paint the walls black so they soak up as much heat as possible.

I have to somewhat question the accuracy of the IR before I get too worried. BUT, if this is an accurate temp, it is probably over the top...just slightly.

UL calls, I think, for up to 90 degrees above ambient. If we use 80 for ambient, that would be up to 170 degrees.

Of course, it's not going to catch on fire today or next week! It would take years of exposure to temps in excess of 200 to even dry out the wood behind the sheetrock. Still, you should keep an eye on it. Maybe as it gets colder outside, this temp will drop...if one or more of the close walls are exterior.

 

[jwscarab]

Thanks guys! I'll keep an eye on it. My IR is a nice Craftsman Professional unit - like $100 plus 1400 deg unit - I trust it.

I always have my right trivet open 15 degrees or so, that way I can use my IR to zap the stove top for monitoring when to turning it down. When the trivet is open, I notice more air flows straight up. My wall of concern is on the right also. Anyway, I closed the right trivet and opened the left one - I think this may help. One last thing, I usually turn stove down from full air to low in one sweep and I do that when the top reaches between 750-800 (close to the pipe). Yesterday, it was 856 stove top - hotter than I like to let it get - it heated up faster than I remembered. Im burning dry white ash, last year was oak and it was slower to heat up.

I'll keep an eye and add a heat shield if it continues. Thanks for the invaluable responses! Joe

 

[begreen]

It would take a tremendous amount of heat to make the Alderlea heat the walls like that. Most of its heat is projected forward. The stove is being pushed too hard. It's being run too hot and turned down too slowly. I've never had my stove top that hot. 750F is about as hot as I have had it. Try turning it down in increments instead of one fell swoop. Cut it to half-way when the fire is getting fully engaged. Then let the fire catch back up, then halfway again or as far as it takes for the flames to get lazy, but not go out. Shoot for a cruising temp of about 650F - 700F maximum on the stove top and I think you will find more normal wall temps. And less wood consumption.

PS: Is this with single or double-wall connector? At what point on the wall is the temp being measured?

 

[jwscarab]

Thanks BeGreen!!

My pipe is single wall pipe - it elbows immediatly and goes straight back into the fireplace opening. The wall/fireplace behind the stove is cement - no issues there.

The wall in question is to the right side (left side is open to room), and as I ran the IR up and down the right wall, it was hottest at about 18"-24" above stove top - which made me think its the hot air coming up - esp with that right trivet open.

As for running lower temps before turning bown, I will try that. I usually turn her down at 750. My issue is timing. I get up before work, load er up, jump in shower, shut er down and leave for work. 10 hrs later I relaod a smaller load when I get home to last til bedtime, then at 11pm I reload for night burn - so I monitoring time is minimal, and burn time needs to be maximum as my time between reloads is so long.

 

[begreen]

I think you may need to get up a little earlier and turn it down earlier. The high wall temp could be because of the single-wall pipe and not the stove. With a blaze in the stove running like this it wouldn't surprise me if the flue gas was pushing 1000F or higher. Have you turned off the lights to see if it is glowing?

Although I can appreciate the rush to get ready for work, turning the stove down earlier is a much better plan. It will extend the life of the stove and will bring those wall temps down. I would also consider putting a heat shield on the wall or at least on the single-wall pipe.

 

[Chettt]

Forgive my ignorance, but why would the color of paint change the temperature of the wall?

 

[pen]

Forgive my ignorance, but why would the color of paint change the temperature of the wall?

Same reason you'd wear a white shirt out in full sun on a hot day instead of a black shirt. Dark color generally absorbs more radiant energy than light colors.

pen

 

[begreen]

You mean my black burkha is not appropriate for desert wear?

 

[Paco]

Ummm.... I don't think it works like that (but I may be wrong).

Dark colors absorb more energy in the form of light, and convert that energy to heat.

But as far as I know, color doesn't affect energy absorption absent light.

Wearing a dark shirt in sunlight makes you sweat. Wearing a dark shirt in a dark room doesn't.

 

[Jags]

Ummm.... I don't think it works like that (but I may be wrong).

Dark colors absorb more energy in the form of light, and convert that energy to heat.

But as far as I know, color doesn't affect energy absorption absent light.

Wearing a dark shirt in sunlight makes you sweat. Wearing a dark shirt in a dark room doesn't.

Light is nothing more than the visible spectrum of radiant energy. Other wavelengths (non-visable) act in the same way - even if you can't see them.

 

[Chettt]

Alright let me get this straight. If I wear dark underwear Monday and white drawers Tuesday, you're saying my John and Yoko will be warmer on Monday?

 

[Jags]

Alright let me get this straight. If I wear dark underwear Monday and white drawers Tuesday, you're saying my John and Yoko will be warmer on Monday?

Not if your wearing pants.

 

[DanCorcoran]

I don't remember that John and Yoko wore pants or drawers.

 

[Battenkiller]

Ummm.... I don't think it works like that (but I may be wrong).

Dark colors absorb more energy in the form of light, and convert that energy to heat.

But as far as I know, color doesn't affect energy absorption absent light.

Wearing a dark shirt in sunlight makes you sweat. Wearing a dark shirt in a dark room doesn't.

Light is nothing more than the visible spectrum of radiant energy. Other wavelengths (non-visable) act in the same way - even if you can't see them.

Jags, now you're Pook. :lol:

I must have been through this with him about a dozen times in the last couple years. Paco is correct. White objects look the way they do because they reflect visible light. Black colors absorb all visible light. IR radiation is color blind. It's absorption and emission is affected only by the emissivity of the material itself.

Outside in direct sunlight, black objects absorb almost all visible light. Since energy is always conserved and no visible light is emitted, the only that can happen is for the absorbed light energy to be converted to another form of energy - heat energy. That's the only reason why dark objects get hotter in direct sunlight.

 

[Jags]

Outside in direct sunlight, black objects absorb almost all visible light. Since energy is always conserved and no visible light is emitted, the only that can happen is for the absorbed light energy to be converted to another form of energy - heat energy. That's the only reason why dark objects get hotter in direct sunlight.

Hmmm...I get it. I guess I wasn't focusing enough on the "color" argument and was more focused on the total energy of the IR spectrum. Busy day/brain mush.

 

[Battenkiller]

Hey, it's a common misconception, based on what is always observed outside in sunlight. Emissivity is a two-way street. Objects that exhibit high emissivity all equally good at both emitting and absorbing IR. Objects with low emmisivity are equally poor at both. Highly polished metallic objects are the worst emitters. That's why shiny chrome handles are a bad idea on a stove. The metal is a good heat conductor but the polished surface is a poor IR emitter, so the heat gets trapped in the metal.

Another thing weird about IR emissivity is that it's beauty is only skin deep. A highly polished silver plate has an emissivity of only around .02 (1.0 is a perfect emitter), but simply paint it (pick a color) and it's emissivity soars up to the .90 - .95 range. There are special high-emissivity paints available that increase the emissivity of a surface to close to 1. They are usually based on carbon black (soot) in them because elemental carbon is a strong emitter, so no doubt the test rooms used for clearance testing are black in color, but this is just coincidence. If carbon was white instead of black, the test room walls would be white.

 

[smokingolf]

Wow :roll:

 

[pen]

Maybe the stove is emitting light :wow:

pen

 

[billb3]

You mean my black burkha is not appropriate for desert wear?

Excellent for sneaking around at night.

 

[jwscarab]

Picture attached! I did it again last night! Ran the stove top to 750 - ONLY 750 this time - and the wall was 184. My elbow was 860.

Now this morning I let her get to 400, then shut her down 1/2 way. Then when I left for work it was 650 and I shut her down to min air for the long burn. Wall was 148. Problem is I was smoking like a freight train when I left the house (yes my wood is very dry).

I really enjoy my process of 750 stove top, then reduce air. Works best for my burns and keeping it clean too. It seems to keep the baffle going strong for a long time vs shuting down at a lower temp.

Keep in mind I measure my stove top 1-2" from the pipe, so its prob less temp if I were to measure 4" away. But yes I agree, my flu probably is above 1000 for a short while.

My wall on the right is 16" from the stove - manual states 12" min.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like your wood is nice and dry. You don't need to worry about buildup. As long as the flue temps are 400-500F it is going to be fine. I just restarted our T6 on a modest hot coal bed. Stove top was down to 200F. Doug fir on the bottom, locust place on the top, all dry wood. In the time it took me to feed the cat and get a cup of coffee (say 2 min.) I came back to a rolling, full fire, stove top at 300F. I turned the stove down 3/4. Checked 5 min later and it was ready to turn down all the way. Stove top is 450F, 450F in the flue pipe (probe reading). The stove top will continue to climb to about 550-600F And the flue gas temp will settle in about 400F. Plenty hot enough to keep the pipes clean and the house warm. I might push it harder when it gets in the teens outside, but not now. Any hotter would be a waste of wood.

 

[Battenkiller]

Picture attached! I did it again last night! Ran the stove top to 750 - ONLY 750 this time - and the wall was 184. My elbow was 860.

Now this morning I let her get to 400, then shut her down 1/2 way. Then when I left for work it was 650 and I shut her down to min air for the long burn. Wall was 148. Problem is I was smoking like a freight train when I left the house (yes my wood is very dry).

I really enjoy my process of 750 stove top, then reduce air. Works best for my burns and keeping it clean too. It seems to keep the baffle going strong for a long time vs shuting down at a lower temp.

Keep in mind I measure my stove top 1-2" from the pipe, so its prob less temp if I were to measure 4" away. But yes I agree, my flu probably is above 1000 for a short while.

My wall on the right is 16" from the stove - manual states 12" min.

Get a piece of thin sheet metal and lean it against that wall. Wall temp problem solved.

Regarding the smoke, looks like you have a very large load of fully involved dry wood in there. Naturally it will make too much smoke if you close it down too far. Even if your flue pipe stays clean because of the hot flue temps, why waste unburned fuel? Try smaller loads. Also, try shutting the air down sooner so you don't have so much rapid outgassing going on all at once. Getting the fuel gas/air mixture dialed in correctly for each burn is 95% of wood heating.

IMHO you will kill that stove in short order running it that hot all the time. Don't think that just because the outside can handle 750º that the inside is fine. Save the 750º burns for when you really need them and be kinder to your stove and you will enjoy its warmth for a very long time.