Ideal Steel update

[ambull01]

A few blizzards, white out conditions, on the Big Island. Night time temps on Maui in the high 40's.low 50's. Several fairly severe storms. I have a lot of family there. With no heat, they are finding it cold. Even the dogs are sleeping under blankets. Of course, they have short haired dogs there. Was sent a picture of Laka, the Rhodesian Ridgeback,/Australian Shepard mix, asleep on his bed, covered by a nice red plaid blanket.

I am under the impression that this is the coldest winter HI has on record.

As you probably know, they always low-key weather issues because of the tourist trade. Like the VOG from the volcano. They report it as fog.

That would be miserable. Good thing I don't live there anymore. Don't think I ever owned a sweater or jacket.

 

[ambull01]

I have a question about the Woodstock company. On another site people are mentioning how long BK has been in business vs Woodstock. Sounds like Woodstock is a much smaller company. They also mentioned the peace of mind knowing BK will be in business for a long time to come so parts/customer service will not be an issue. What do you guys think about the Woodstock company? Any concerns with it being so small/less established?

 

[rdust]

How deep below the door is the firebox on the IS?

 

[rdust]

I have a question about the Woodstock company. On another site people are mentioning how long BK has been in business vs Woodstock. Sounds like Woodstock is a much smaller company. They also mentioned the peace of mind knowing BK will be in business for a long time to come so parts/customer service will not be an issue. What do you guys think about the Woodstock company? Any concerns with it being so small/less established?

Woodstock isn't going anywhere, they're here to stay. I wouldn't waste another thought on it!

 

[begreen]

Woodstock has been around for many years. Tom is a legend in the industry. As a small company they have adapted quickly with new designs that will ensure they make it through the next level of EPA standards. Neither BK or Woodstock are large companies when compared to the giants like Travis and Jotul. That could be an asset as they are perhaps more adaptable? As long as they continue to produce quality products with good customer service they should do well long into the future.

 

[ambull01]

Sounds great, thanks guys. Now I have another question lol. The IS just won some fancy prize and I'm definitely getting it over a BK. Only issue is, why not make it achieve the same type of insane burn time of a BK? I would think as a hybrid it would be extremely efficient so why can't it get 40 hour burn times? I've read one of the main things that enable a BK stove to achieve a ridiculous burn time is the great air control. I know the full sized BK unit is larger so maybe that's the only thing holding the IS back?

 

[begreen]

BK uses special magic Sasquatch sauce. It gets those long burn times on softwood no less.

 

[ambull01]

BK uses special magic Sasquatch sauce. It gets those long burn times on softwood no less.

So that's the secret? I need some of that sauce to try in my insert.

 

[begreen]

It comes from deep in the Blue Mountains.

 

[rdust]

I know the full sized BK unit is larger IS so maybe that's the only thing holding the IS back?

The IS is bigger than the Princess but smaller than the King. BK advertises the Princess at 30 hours, I never shoot for that but 24 hour shoulder season burns are easily achieved.

Not every manufacture needs or wants to produce a really low burning stove. I wouldn't get too hung up on that. Any reports I've read have the IS sounding like a great stove. Any stove that can burn 12 hours when it's zero outside and keep you warm is a winner.

 

[ambull01]

It comes from deep in the Blue Mountains.

The Blue Ridge Mountains? I think that's a sheepsquatch.

 

[begreen]

No, the Blue Mtns of Oregon. Though it looks like Clackamas county is Sasquatch territory. That would be in the Cascades.
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/state_listing.asp?state=or

 

[Tenn Dave]

Sounds great, thanks guys. Now I have another question lol. The IS just won some fancy prize and I'm definitely getting it over a BK. Only issue is, why not make it achieve the same type of insane burn time of a BK? I would think as a hybrid it would be extremely efficient so why can't it get 40 hour burn times? I've read one of the main things that enable a BK stove to achieve a ridiculous burn time is the great air control. I know the full sized BK unit is larger so maybe that's the only thing holding the IS back?

I am sure other stove companies could easily reverse engineer a BK stove and duplicate it. But it appears that is not what they want to do. The simple fact is that if 2 stoves have an equal efficiency rating/load size, and one burns longer then the other, it is giving off less btu's. Long burn times can be very beneficial in warmer climates with prolonged shoulder seasons or in very well insulated homes with lower heat requirements. But the trade off is no fire view and less heat per hour on these lower settings. When I raised the burn time question with Woodstock before I purchased my stove, they said they were looking for the best balance for performance over the largest range of variables. But the great thing is that there are enough different stove manufacturers out there that you should be able to find something that meets most of your needs and wants.

 

[ambull01]

No, the Blue Mtns of Oregon. Though it looks like Clackamas county is Sasquatch territory. That would be in the Cascades.
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/state_listing.asp?state=or

LOL. Never knew they had sites dedicated to Bigfoot sightings. Oh man that just made my day.

 

[ambull01]

I am sure other stove companies could easily reverse engineer a BK stove and duplicate it. But it appears that is not what they want to do. The simple fact is that if 2 stoves have an equal efficiency rating/load size, and one burns longer then the other, it is giving off less btu's. Long burn times can be very beneficial in warmer climates with prolonged shoulder seasons or in very well insulated homes with lower heat requirements. But the trade off is no fire view and less heat per hour on these lower settings. When I raised the burn time question with Woodstock before I purchased my stove, they said they were looking for the best balance for performance over the largest range of variables. But the great thing is that there are enough different stove manufacturers out there that you should be able to find something that meets most of your needs and wants.

Wish there was an option to quote multiple posts on this site.

That makes sense. Just couldn't understand why other companies refuse to make a stove with prolonged burn times since that's one the most talked/raved about feature of BK's. I need to investigate how true posts/claims are that say they've achieved insane burn times during really cold weather. That's starting to seem like BS now.

I like the fact a BK owner, @rdust , is on here speaking highly of the IS. The other site I frequent is filled with BK people turning their nose up other stoves.

 

[BrotherBart]

You can. Drag the cursor over the text in a post that you want to quote and then on the grey "Quote Me" button that pops up. That puts it in your reply window. Then do the same thing again to the rest of the stuff from other posts ya want to quote.

I am sure other stove companies could easily reverse engineer a BK stove and duplicate it.

LOL. Never knew they had sites dedicated to Bigfoot sightings. Oh man that just made my day.

Wish there was an option to quote multiple posts on this site.

 

[Jags]

Just couldn't understand why other companies refuse to make a stove with prolonged burn times since that's one the most talked/raved about feature of BK's.

The reality is that you cannot create heat (energy). Basically it comes down to two factors:
First is the fuel load - how many BTU can a stove actually contain.
Second is how a given stove hands those btus back to you and how efficient the stove is in the conversion from wood to heat.
The first is pretty easy to measure simply by weight (assuming the fuel is at a given MC %).
The second is where a bunch of variables come in...How efficient is the stove and how fast is it returning the BTUS (cranking or low and slow). BK and their alien technology does a very fine job of the slow and low as well as returning high efficiency numbers. Woodstock also does a fine job of low and slow, albeit maybe a step behind BK in this arena, and they are also known for high efficiency numbers.
With all that said, not everybody is looking for slow and low. At any point in time that I call "winter" a 250-300F stove top means my house is getting cold. THAT is one reason that not every MFG is turning down the path of BK and Woodstock. They have their place, but that is not "every" place. Taking a BK to 600F stovetop for the majority of its heating life somewhat negates the need for "alien technology and Sasquatch sauce".

 

[Tenn Dave]

The reality is that you cannot create heat (energy). Basically it comes down to two factors:
First is the fuel load - how many BTU can a stove actually contain.
Second is how a given stove hands those btus back to you and how efficient the stove is in the conversion from wood to heat.
The first is pretty easy to measure simply by weight (assuming the fuel is at a given MC %).
The second is where a bunch of variables come in...How efficient is the stove and how fast is it returning the BTUS (cranking or low and slow). BK and their alien technology does a very fine job of the slow and low as well as returning high efficiency numbers. Woodstock also does a fine job of low and slow, albeit maybe a step behind BK in this arena, and they are also known for high efficiency numbers.
With all that said, not everybody is looking for slow and low. At any point in time that I call "winter" a 250-300F stove top means my house is getting cold. THAT is one reason that not every MFG is turning down the path of BK and Woodstock. They have their place, but that is not "every" place. Taking a BK to 600F stovetop for the majority of its heating life somewhat negates the need for "alien technology and Sasquatch sauce".

If the majority of future stove buyers were to demand 24+ hour low and slow burn times, you can bet all the other stove manufacturers would jump on the bandwagon. However, that has not been the case. But if you do need those super long burn times, thankfully we have a manufacturer or 2 who can satisfy that need.

 

[ambull01]

You can. Drag the cursor over the text in a post that you want to quote and then on the grey "Quote Me" button that pops up. That puts it in your reply window. Then do the same thing again to the rest of the stuff from other posts ya want to quote.

Awesome!! lol, thanks.

The reality is that you cannot create heat (energy). Basically it comes down to two factors:
First is the fuel load - how many BTU can a stove actually contain.
Second is how a given stove hands those btus back to you and how efficient the stove is in the conversion from wood to heat.
The first is pretty easy to measure simply by weight (assuming the fuel is at a given MC %).
The second is where a bunch of variables come in...How efficient is the stove and how fast is it returning the BTUS (cranking or low and slow). BK and their alien technology does a very fine job of the slow and low as well as returning high efficiency numbers. Woodstock also does a fine job of low and slow, albeit maybe a step behind BK in this arena, and they are also known for high efficiency numbers.
With all that said, not everybody is looking for slow and low. At any point in time that I call "winter" a 250-300F stove top means my house is getting cold. THAT is one reason that not every MFG is turning down the path of BK and Woodstock. They have their place, but that is not "every" place. Taking a BK to 600F stovetop for the majority of its heating life somewhat negates the need for "alien technology and Sasquatch sauce".

Thank you for that nice simple explanation. Totally get it now.

 

[Tenn Dave]

Wish there was an option to quote multiple posts on this site.

That makes sense. Just couldn't understand why other companies refuse to make a stove with prolonged burn times since that's one the most talked/raved about feature of BK's. I need to investigate how true posts/claims are that say they've achieved insane burn times during really cold weather. That's starting to seem like BS now.

I like the fact a BK owner, @rdust , is on here speaking highly of the IS. The other site I frequent is filled with BK people turning their nose up other stoves.

I think we all have our favorite stove, but you would be doing a disservice to yourself if you do not have an open mind and the ability to appreciate the new technology and stove models which come out every year from different manufacturers. I just hope the industry keeps improving regardless from which manufacturer the improvements come. If and when I ever buy another stove, I will start out with a clean slate in evaluating all available options.

 

[JA600L]

Ambull01, what would you like to do with this stove? If you are heating a large uninsulated area low and slow won't cut it anyway. I'm not trying to pursued you toward the IS. Take a look at Blaze King and maybe that will end up being what you want. The one thing you need to remember is that everybody thinks you should but their stove.

You also need to remember that some people exaggerate how great their stove is as well. A Blaze King might heat somebody else's area great for 30 hours but you might end up with a cold house trying it.

I would spend more money insulating your house then worrying about what stove you buy. That will be the real determining factor.

 

[ambull01]

Ambull01, what would you like to do with this stove? If you are heating a large uninsulated area low and slow won't cut it anyway. I'm not trying to pursued you toward the IS. Take a look at Blaze King and maybe that will end up being what you want. The one thing you need to remember is that everybody thinks you should but their stove.

You also need to remember that some people exaggerate how great their stove is as well. A Blaze King might heat somebody else's area great for 30 hours but you might end up with a cold house trying it.

I would spend more money insulating your house then worrying about what stove you buy. That will be the real determining factor.

I would like to stuff it full of wood and burn it. I've looked at the BK a bit, looks fugly to me. There's a couple models that don't seem that bad though. I like to go against the grain though so the IS really appeals to me in that respect.

Was just wondering how such an advanced stove like the IS couldn't compete against the older BK stoves. Now I know. Sorry, I know I've been clogging your thread with a ton of questions and a lot of them were really general type stuff.

 

[OhioBurner©]

The reality is that you cannot create heat (energy). Basically it comes down to two factors:
First is the fuel load - how many BTU can a stove actually contain.
Second is how a given stove hands those btus back to you and how efficient the stove is in the conversion from wood to heat

Yeah for stoves of similar efficiency and size a longer burn means a less btu output per hour. But don't forget the huge size of the King does allow it to burn the length of an IS/PH or longer and still deliver more BTU.

I think for my situation a King would function the best (not counting looks). However the 8" flue would make it too difficult to install with existing interior masonry chimneys with 6" venting already in place. So taking the big >4cuft King out of the equation, I don't think the Princess or Ashford offer much advantage if I can get 14hr burns from an IS or PH to cover my workday where I am gone. I'm not worried about 30 hr burns or anything, on my off days I don't mind loading my Rockland up 3 or 4 times a day. I'm just wanting something to cover my typical workday.

I just have to make a decision if I want to keep the free standing pellet stove. If I do, then a new stove might be a much harder task since my other stove is an insert in a large brick fireplace, and the hearth couldn't accommodate a stove without some major work, and it would stick way out in the room.

I would spend more money insulating your house then worrying about what stove you buy. That will be the real determining factor.

Well for me I can't take insulation with me to my next home but I could probably take the stove! Plus only so much insulation you can add in some situations. I'm trying to figure out what the heck to do with my cape cod style upper floor where the ceiling of the bedrooms is mounted to the roof trusses and only 4" of space between (and no insulation currently).

 

[ambull01]

Yeah for stoves of similar efficiency and size a longer burn means a less btu output per hour. But don't forget the huge size of the King does allow it to burn the length of an IS/PH or longer and still deliver more BTU.

I think for my situation a King would function the best (not counting looks). However the 8" flue would make it too difficult to install with existing interior masonry chimneys with 6" venting already in place. So taking the big >4cuft King out of the equation, I don't think the Princess or Ashford offer much advantage if I can get 14hr burns from an IS or PH to cover my workday where I am gone. I'm not worried about 30 hr burns or anything, on my off days I don't mind loading my Rockland up 3 or 4 times a day. I'm just wanting something to cover my typical workday.

I just have to make a decision if I want to keep the free standing pellet stove. If I do, then a new stove might be a much harder task since my other stove is an insert in a large brick fireplace, and the hearth couldn't accommodate a stove without some major work, and it would stick way out in the room.


Well for me I can't take insulation with me to my next home but I could probably take the stove! Plus only so much insulation you can add in some situations. I'm trying to figure out what the heck to do with my cape cod style upper floor where the ceiling of the bedrooms is mounted to the roof trusses and only 4" of space between (and no insulation currently).

Check out a thread made by a member named BrianK on Arborist site.com. He made a real detailed thread about achieving a 24 hour burn with out side temps in the high to mid teens. Supposedly he lives in a real drafty house so that's great news for me. Not sure how your temps compare to his though. Believe he's in PA.

 

[begreen]

Take fanboy posts with a grain of salt. Some proud owners tend to enhance a bit.