Install myself, or pay the pros?

[Rangerbait]

Gents,

I have been going back and forth with a couple of chimney/stove shops in the area, and I still feel like I'm getting jobbed on the parts and labor. Can anyone recommend a good source of supply for top-end class A stainless pipe and fittings so I can tell how much mark up is being added into the bids compared to what Joe Consumer can buy from a reputable retailer?

Also, I am doing all of the framing/sheathing/siding/roofing/stone work myself, but have been reluctant to tackle the actual chimney installation as I've mentioned in other threads just due to the peace of mind factor...however, after talking to numerous friends and co-workers, it sounds like a lot of the jobs that the installers in the area perform are not done with near the level of care and detail as I would expend. My chimney and sheet metal experience is very limited, although I can do pretty much anything else construction-related...if I am pulling a permit for the chimney installation, and it will be subject to inspection, is there a compelling reason to not tackle this myself?

Thanks in advance for the feedback...I'm not trying to be cheap here, I just don't want to pay top dollar for sub-standard workmanship.

 

[Simonkenton]

You can do it, not that hard.

 

[Lcback]

If your doing a stainless chimney, it's the easiest part of the whole process. They click together and twist. 3ft at a time. Keep your clearances and your all set.

I used Duravent triple wall, insulated, class a. I got it at home Depot for $89 per 3 foot section. It's not what the pros use, but I don't see what's wrong with it.

 

[double-d]

Not sure if you are also building a Chase or just installing the Chimney pipe. There is lots of information on the internet, including here. Make sure you are aware of the different components and usages if needed, Thru the wall thimbles, Wall Bands, Fire Shields, Attic Insulation Shields and Stainless Chase Cover.
If building a Chase also, the chimney chase support must be able to accommodate the weight of not only the structure and the chimney but also the exterior siding (or stone) that may be applied.
I prefer the Double-wall Insulated Class A pipe, and there are many MFG's to choose from.
http://inspectapedia.com/chimneys/Wood_Chimney_Chase.php

 

[begreen]

If you're meticulous, can measure properly and have the time then you should be able to do this. The most important part is in the planning. Pay close attention to clearances and if at all possible locate the stove and chimney centrally in the floorplan with the chimney going straight up and thru the roof. There are pretty good instructions published by DuraVent on the process. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask. Look here under the literature tab for the chimney instructions:
(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=1)

A good quality pipe is DuraTech, double-wall chimney. This is also known as class A chimney pipe.
A good source with helpful service is here:
(broken link removed to http://www.woodstovepro.com/store/Chimney-Pipe-Venting-Pipe/Wood-All-Fuel-Piping/6-inch/DuraTech-c155/)
Top of the line chimney is made by Excel and Ventis, the latter is sold retail under the Champion brand name:
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/Class-A-Double-Wall/?state=13748|13598

 

[Rangerbait]

Very good resources...thanks! This is going to be a newly framed chase (which I am building) that is replacing the existing bump out where the useless propane insert currently resides. I have attached the sketch of the chase and the alcove clearances so y'all can tell what I am planning.

 

[begreen]

Good start in planning. You can use a regular ceiling support box instead of a cathedral ceiling support at the bottom of the chimney pipe. Then use double-wall stove pipe to connect the stove. Which Blaze King stove are the clearances in the diagram for?

 

[Rangerbait]

Good start in planning. You can use a regular ceiling support box instead of a cathedral ceiling support at the bottom of the chimney pipe. Then use double-wall stove pipe to connect the stove. Which Blaze King stove are the clearances in the diagram for?

The King Parlor.

 

[begreen]

So far looking good. The alcove ceiling will need to be at least 49" above the stove top. Will the stove have the fan kit?

 

[bholler]

If your doing a stainless chimney, it's the easiest part of the whole process. They click together and twist. 3ft at a time. Keep your clearances and your all set.

I used Duravent triple wall, insulated, class a. I got it at home Depot for $89 per 3 foot section. It's not what the pros use, but I don't see what's wrong with it.

It has half the insulation of the double wall stuff for starters. So it does not maintain internal temps as well.

 

[bholler]

Gents,

I have been going back and forth with a couple of chimney/stove shops in the area, and I still feel like I'm getting jobbed on the parts and labor. Can anyone recommend a good source of supply for top-end class A stainless pipe and fittings so I can tell how much mark up is being added into the bids compared to what Joe Consumer can buy from a reputable retailer?

Also, I am doing all of the framing/sheathing/siding/roofing/stone work myself, but have been reluctant to tackle the actual chimney installation as I've mentioned in other threads just due to the peace of mind factor...however, after talking to numerous friends and co-workers, it sounds like a lot of the jobs that the installers in the area perform are not done with near the level of care and detail as I would expend. My chimney and sheet metal experience is very limited, although I can do pretty much anything else construction-related...if I am pulling a permit for the chimney installation, and it will be subject to inspection, is there a compelling reason to not tackle this myself?

Thanks in advance for the feedback...I'm not trying to be cheap here, I just don't want to pay top dollar for sub-standard workmanship.

Class a chimneys ate pretty easy to install if you can do the rest of that you can do the chimney. Just follow the instructions carefully. And dont rely on the inspector many of them know very little about chimneys.

 

[Lcback]

It has half the insulation of the double wall stuff for starters. So it does not maintain internal temps as well.

Okay, I didn't tell him what to get. I told him how it's easy, and where you can get a regular brand. Our situations aren't the same. I had to run mine out the basement and up the outside of the house. Code called for triple wall with a 2" clearance. This Duravent has that, the first two walls have solid pack insulation between them. I'm no expert but I'm not sure how double wall can have any more insulation shoved between the only two walls.

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[bholler]

Okay, I didn't tell him what to get. I told him how it's easy, and where you can get a regular brand. Our situations aren't the same. I had to run mine out the basement and up the outside of the house. Code called for triple wall with a 2" clearance. This Duravent has that, the first two walls have solid pack insulation between them. I'm no expert but I'm not sure how double wall can have any more insulation shoved between the only two walls.

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Well i was responding to your comment about not knowing what was wrong. And yes the triple wall is safe but it does not perform as well.

Next code does not call for triple wall with 2 inches of clearace it calls for a class a chimney that can be a masonry chimney installed to code or a prefab chimney installed per manufacturers instructions. Most require 2 inches but not all.

And the duravent triplewall has 1/2" of insulation double wall has 1". Which is why i said triple wall has half the insulation.

 

[Lcback]

Well i was responding to your comment about not knowing what was wrong. And yes the triple wall is safe but it does not perform as well.

Next code does not call for triple wall with 2 inches of clearace it calls for a class a chimney that can be a masonry chimney installed to code or a prefab chimney installed per manufacturers instructions. Most require 2 inches but not all.

And the duravent triplewall has 1/2" of insulation double wall has 1". Which is why i said triple wall has half the insulation.

Your right, I'm wrong. I put my chimney in and clearly didn't know much. So I say this guy should go for it!


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[bholler]

Your right, I'm wrong. I put my chimney in and clearly didn't know much. So I say this guy should go for it!

The chimney you put in is perfectly safe and will work ok. I was just pointing out the reason that the double wall is more expensive and performs better. Also in case you missed it I also said he could probably do it himself. But he was asking about top of the line chimney systems and the triple wall is not top of the line at all.

 

[bholler]

I have attached the sketch of the chase and the alcove clearances so y'all can tell what I am planning.

When building your alcove and heath I would recommend going at least a couple inches past minimum required. Especially on the hearth it is nice to have a littl extra space there. And you dont wat you stove to tight in the opening either it just makes it hard to work on.

 

[Rangerbait]

So far looking good. The alcove ceiling will need to be at least 49" above the stove top. Will the stove have the fan kit?

Yes on the fan kit and side shields (required for alcove application), and the ceiling of the alcove will be 8.5' above the hearth; the ceiling in that room is 9.5'

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you're doing your homework. Take pics so we can see your progress.

 

[defiant3]

If this is to be inspected by a code officer or building inspector, might be worth running it by him/her BEFORE getting started. Unless there's some kind of appeals process the inspector IS the law whether they are right or wrong . Don't ask how I know this...

 

[xman23]

Sounds like your doing most of the work, the proper chimney chase. Hearth and stove surround, next. And the easy part positioning the stove and stacking the chimney.

 

[Rangerbait]

Sounds like your doing most of the work, the proper chimney chase. Hearth and stove surround, next. And the easy part positioning the stove and stacking the chimney.

That's what I'm thinking...after looking into the process of chimney installation more, I'm no longer apprehensive at all about doing it myself. I've never seen it done before, and the shady salesbro made it sound like they'd be doing some serious engineering work. It looks pretty straight forward as long as I get all of the parts I need...going with Champion for the parts.

 

[leisuretech]

I would suggest doing it yourself if you have the knowledge and skills to complete the job, the one thing I will state is that if any issues arise (if installation is done improperly) it could cause further issues and injury. For this reason I would always suggest a home owner contact an insured and licensed heating installation company to get the job done correctly. In theory saving money always sounds great but could always have the potential to go wrong...

-Best of Luck

 

[begreen]

It's a two way street. Some stove shops don't have their own crews and sub-contract. That sometimes can remove responsibility and care about workmanship. Unfortunately just because someone has a licensed operation it doesn't always mean one will get professional work. Get references and check them out. As in any business, there are some really good shops out there and there are some not so good ones. A really good shop may be the higher bidder but they often use a higher class material and have trained crews that are well paid and have been with the company a long time. This adds years of experience to your installation.

One benefit of doing it oneself if one has the skills and patience, is that when a question, missing part or problem arises, you are not on the clock and can pause to get it figured out and see that the job is done properly. Just be thorough and meticulous with your work and clean up well afterward. Wood shavings left in a ceiling support can be an ignitable source of fuel.

 

[xman23]

You tell me if I was being picky about my pro store installation. See my avatar to see how it came out. This is was a new hose. They, the stove store had a sub they use all the time, do the hearth and stone wall surround. I don't have pictures, but it was extremely horrible quality. Wrong size random cut stones in the hearth. He said forgot his glasses that day. I ripped it all out, and went and found a guy that did the nice looking job you see.

So they came to install the stove. Where the stove needed to be located on the hearth, where it is now. The straight shot up with the chimney hit a ceiling rafter. They said all they would do was snake the chimney with a 6 inch offset about halfway up. I had to have the guy leave and I framed out the chase. They wouldn't do it. They came back and stacked the chimney in the chase I made. If I knew all this I would have done it my self. And this was a major stove store in NEPA. They know the issues that will happen and what the customer may be overlooking. At the end they wanted to charge for the visit that they didn't do the install. I gave the installer a check minus the stone work and the extra visit. The owner never called.

 

[bholler]

You tell me if I was being picky about my pro store installation. See my avatar to see how it came out. This is was a new hose. They, the stove store had a sub they use all the time, do the hearth and stone wall surround. I don't have pictures, but it was extremely horrible quality. Wrong size random cut stones in the hearth. He said forgot his glasses that day. I ripped it all out, and went and found a guy that did the nice looking job you see.

So they came to install the stove. Where the stove needed to be located on the hearth, where it is now. The straight shot up with the chimney hit a ceiling rafter. They said all they would do was snake the chimney with a 6 inch offset about halfway up. I had to have the guy leave and I framed out the chase. They wouldn't do it. They came back and stacked the chimney in the chase I made. If I knew all this I would have done it my self. And this was a major stove store in NEPA. They know the issues that will happen and what the customer may be overlooking. At the end they wanted to charge for the visit that they didn't do the install. I gave the installer a check minus the stone work and the extra visit. The owner never called.

Many chimney guys wont change structural changes and in some areas really cant without getting different permits. We do but i was a carpenter for years and the regulations and permitting in our area are not to stringent. So that part i dont see is their fault. The crappy stone work obviously is.