Is my Quadrafire 1200i board bad? How can I tell?

[RobertL39]

Auger wasn't working. Got that fixed.
Dumb Move #1--pulled out the ash tray while current was flowing to the igniter. Very tiny spark noted.
Everything continued to work fine except the igniter wouldn't heat.
Current status is that everything works perfectly except the igniter. No heat ever. I light a fire in the pot by match and the stove runs normally all day.
Igniter: 37.5 ohms resistance Wires are OK.
Based on advice in a forum I replaced the 12V 5-pin relay on the circuit board. This did NOT fix the igniter.
I have continuity from the gold contacts on the board to the 2 wires feeding the igniter and indeed all the way to the igniter itself. "Houston, we have continuity."
BUT
I do NOT have 12V coming down those wires. I measure 100mV or so.
Fuse #2 on the board tests with good continuity. Other fuses are fine, too, and as I said everything else works just fine.
Is there any other way to check the board? I don't see anything burnt or damaged. There are 2 variable resistors that appear to be part of the circuit but I can't read the numbers on them even with magnifiers.
Ideas? Any board repair service y'all can recommend?
May the pellet gods be good to you for any assistance you can offer. For some reason I just don't feel like paying $170/hr! to have somebody do what I've already done.
Thanks a ton.

 

[Former Farmer]

I am not familiar with the 1200i, but on my Castile, the igniter is 120 volt.

You stated that you do not have 12v on the igniter wires. You measured 100mV or so. Are you checking for AC or DC voltage? You should be checking for AC voltage at the igniter. It sounds like maybe you had your meter set to DC instead of AC.

 

[RobertL39]

THANKS@@ The relay, which I understand is what starts the igniter and appears to be directly connected to the gold contact on the board that feeds the igniter wires, has a 12VDC output but a 12amp/120V input. Am I getting something messed up here?

 

[jzm2cc]

Second Former Farmer, Igniter is fed 120Vac.

The 5 pin chip usually gets fried along with green pico fuse in board when auger circuit short circuit occurs.

It's been a while since I've worked on these Quad control boards, but bet the triac is toasted. Will double check a board that I have lying around. If you can replace a chip then a 3 pin triac will he a piece of cake.

 

[RobertL39]

You know, the old gears started to turn... the igniter warming up that hot on 12V? Pretty unlikely he says. So then I got to thinking that it must be the switch for the auger (like you say!). Glad to have that confirmed. What the heck does the triac look like? Maybe like this??
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Can you send me a picture and/or tell me where to find one? NO idea what to ask for.
THANKS! Nice to get some assistance from you upper Midwest folks. It's MUCH appreciated!!
BUT he says quickly,
If the triac is gone, then nothing would work, correct? And everything works perfectly except the ignitor, and it tests normal. Or maybe just one side of it blows? I will measure AC coming to the ignitor and see what I get. Tomorrow...

 

[Tonyray]

My harman stove had same problem with triac toasting the ignitor am sure its all similar to your stove board.... i did not know how to fix or tell which triac was bad so i had to spring for new board. Problem fixed . Oh.. forgot. Had to install new ignitor also.. duh..

 

[Ssyko]

The boards have 2 voltages on them. The step down transformer with a TO220 pkg voltage regulator that is present on the low side. Thats what controls the relay’s. There is 120vac that goes through the board controlled by triacs. They also are aTO220pkg the part number should be marked on the component, I believe they are bta12 800 bw but confirm on yours. I don’t have access to my pc for pictures till i get home from work tonight. Test your igniter with an old lamp cord plugged into the wall to make sure it functions.

 

[RobertL39]

The boards have 2 voltages on them. The step down transformer with a TO220 pkg voltage regulator that is present on the low side. Thats what controls the relay’s. There is 120vac that goes through the board controlled by triacs. They also are aTO220pkg the part number should be marked on the component, I believe they are bta12 800 bw but confirm on yours. I don’t have access to my pc for pictures till i get home from work tonight. Test your igniter with an old lamp cord plugged into the wall to make sure it functions.

Since I have NO idea what the transformer/regulator look like LOVE to see a picture, figure out how to test it, and find out where I can get that part(s). I tested the output to the gold contact on the board and it's 3.17VAC. I'll double-check that the igniter works, but with only 3.17V getting to it, not likely to put out any heat. IOW seems like it has to be the input but I'll check with lamp cord. Thanks a ton! Getting closer...

 

[jzm2cc]

Check the glass fuse on control board. Suspect the relay that powers the igniter circuit may be damaged.

 

[RobertL39]

The boards have 2 voltages on them. The step down transformer with a TO220 pkg voltage regulator that is present on the low side. Thats what controls the relay’s. There is 120vac that goes through the board controlled by triacs. They also are aTO220pkg the part number should be marked on the component, I believe they are bta12 800 bw but confirm on yours. I don’t have access to my pc for pictures till i get home from work tonight. Test your igniter with an old lamp cord plugged into the wall to make sure it functions.

Did you find those pictures? Can you tell me where those parts are on the board and where to buy replacements? The igniter does work when plugged into the wall. 3.15VAC to the gold contacts on the board that go to the igniter. It’s something on the board. The question of course is HOW do I find what it is and then where do I get the part to fix it??

 

[RobertL39]

Check the glass fuse on control board. Suspect the relay that powers the igniter circuit may be damaged.

The glass fuse and the F2 pico fuse are both OK. The 12V relay powers the auger, I think. The igniter needs 120V to heat up—tested with lamp cord per Ssyko above. EVERYTHING works except the igniter and only 3.15VAC getting to those contacts on the board. It’s something on the board! Gee, that’s nice to know. But what??
Thanks for your help!! Stay warm up there.

 

[jzm2cc]

I took the picture and was pointing to the relay that powers the igniter circuit, it's a 20 Amp rating with part number 812h-1c, easy to find if you search on internet. However I'm not saying that's definitely the root cause. Does the voltage at the igniter go from 0 VAC to 3 VAC during the start up sequence with the igniter removed from circuit? Have you checked for continuity across the glass fuse and green pico fuse with board removed from stove?

 

[RobertL39]

I took the picture and was pointing to the relay that powers the igniter circuit, it's a 20 Amp rating with part number 812h-1c, easy to find if you search on internet. However I'm not saying that's definitely the root cause. Does the voltage at the igniter go from 0 VAC to 3 VAC during the start up sequence with the igniter removed from circuit? Have you checked for continuity across the glass fuse and green pico fuse with board removed from stove?

Yes, tested both fuses with the board removed from the box and stove. I will check voltage change during start-up but 3VAC can't be enough to run the igniter and there is nothing in between the gold contacts on the board and the igniter but wires: no relays, components of any kind.
I don't know much about these things, but I don't think that relay powers the igniter. More likely the auger motor which has to cycle off nd on all the time. Mine is marked 12V (T7CS5D-12).

It only has 5 pins and 3 of them are for the switch. The other 2 have resistance across them. This is the relay that I replaced (picture is of the replacement--EXACTLY the same as the one removed) and the replacement did not fix the problem.
I'll play with the voltage to the igniter at rest and start-up and see if it changes. I'll also try and figure out if this relay is working when the auger motor does its thing. Though I suppose it could control both, though not quite sure how that would work since you need both igniter and auger during start-up, then auger shuts off while igniter is still going. Hmmmmm.
Thanks again! Anybody else out there want to jump in??? HELP

 

[RobertL39]

The boards have 2 voltages on them. The step down transformer with a TO220 pkg voltage regulator that is present on the low side. Thats what controls the relay’s. There is 120vac that goes through the board controlled by triacs. They also are aTO220pkg the part number should be marked on the component, I believe they are bta12 800 bw but confirm on yours. I don’t have access to my pc for pictures till i get home from work tonight. Test your igniter with an old lamp cord plugged into the wall to make sure it functions.

I don't see any component with numbers like that. It looks like maybe my pictures didn't show up first time, so here they are again.

Is this the Triac? How do I test it? Where else to look??
THANKS

 

[jzm2cc]

The 5 pin relay does control the igniter. How many ohms are you getting across the coil? Mine shows 355 ohms. You may have a control issue powering the relay coil. Relay should make a click noise on power up after vacuum is established.

When you mentioned 5 pin chip I thought you were referring to chip next to pico fuse which powers the auger motor, sorry. It actually has 7 pins with 1 pin missing on one side.

 

[jzm2cc]

Ignore my comment about relay noise click after vacuum established, it should click when start up sequence is established by thermostat, vacuum has nothing to do with that

 

[RobertL39]

Ignore my comment about relay noise click after vacuum established, it should click when start up sequence is established by thermostat, vacuum has nothing to do with that

Thanks for all your help! Yeah, the vacuum is working fine because everything else works fine. No vacuum, no auger I think and the auger works normally.
I get 400 ohms across the 2 pins. I get continuity between the "middle" pin (probably the pivot for the relay arm) and one of the pins on the other side, no continuity between the middle pin and the other one on the other side.

The lower pin on the right is a direct shot (with continuity) to gold contact #15 (the last one) on the board. The question I guess is how 110V gets to that pin. Damned if I know! The visible trace on the component side (reproduced below) appears to go from the 3-pin side of the relay to the small, flat black whatever-it-is just behind the black capacitor.

But I get no continuity between any pin on the 4-pin black gizmo (or anything else around that area) and the "pivot" (middle) or top pin on the 3-pin side of the relay. Now what??
Thanks again! Hope you have a good, warm weekend!
RDL

 

[Tonyray]

God bless you guy diagnosing the whole shebang. I would have bought a new board by now since i dont know how to do what you fellas are doing.. actually did go for new board last year when ignitor would not shut off to fix problem.

 

[RobertL39]

God bless you guy diagnosing the whole shebang. I would have bought a new board by now since i dont know how to do what you fellas are doing.. actually did go for new board last year when ignitor would not shut off to fix problem.

Well, see, it's a puzzle and I love this kind of puzzle. Ask me about installing a new GPU in my iMac! Now THAT was a real puzzle. Anyway, we've made the diagnosis, but that was obvious a long time ago (no igniter or, as a guy I used to work with would say, "Fire's out."). What we haven't done is found the cure! DAMN. Sometimes that's the easy part, sometimes it's the hard part. Where did you find a board? Did you encounter any board repair folks who might fix it for me?

 

[Tonyray]

Well, see, it's a puzzle and I love this kind of puzzle. Ask me about installing a new GPU in my iMac! Now THAT was a real puzzle. Anyway, we've made the diagnosis, but that was obvious a long time ago (no igniter or, as a guy I used to work with would say, "Fire's out."). What we haven't done is found the cure! DAMN. Sometimes that's the easy part, sometimes it's the hard part. Where did you find a board? Did you encounter any board repair folks who might fix it for me?

Bought board new.. no one around me knew how to figure out and replace the bad triac.. btw, my electric bill had really jumped a bit too much so i surmized it was the stove . Been burning 8 yrs but this was exstreme.. put a clamp meter on a single ignitor wire in the back and it was pulling lot of volts when it was shut down..bad triac was not doing its shut off job. That was as far as i could go. New board and new ignitor got me back normal.

 

[RobertL39]

Bought board new.. no one around me knew how to figure out and replace the bad triac.. btw, my electric bill had really jumped a bit too much so i surmized it was the stove . Been burning 8 yrs but this was exstreme.. put a clamp meter on a single ignitor wire in the back and it was pulling lot of volts when it was shut down..bad triac was not doing its shut off job. That was as far as i could go. New board and new ignitor got me back normal.

Where did you find the board? eBay? Any other source (like a dealer?) I hate to spend $150 when it's a $2 part that's failed.

 

[jzm2cc]

I may have the polarity reversed on the two rightmost gold igniter pins as I'm operating from memory, but you'll get an idea of how circuit works. The negative feed comes into the board on the 5th pin from the other end of where the igniter is powered. The feed is transferred to the other side of the board on second to last or last pin. The positive feed comes from the relay that is not normally powered as show red. The relay contactor arm gets Positive power from the transformer pin above it. All AC power, except for the relay coil which is DC.

 

[Tonyray]

Where did you find the board? eBay? Any other source (like a dealer?) I hate to spend $150 when it's a $2 part that's failed.

No. at pelletstoveparts4less.com. About 209.00 i think.. was leary about a used board.. at least a new one i would have return options if bad from reputable seller..didnt want a " as is " electronic part.

 

[RobertL39]

I may have the polarity reversed on the two rightmost gold igniter pins as I'm operating from memory, but you'll get an idea of how circuit works. The negative feed comes into the board on the 5th pin from the other end of where the igniter is powered. The feed is transferred to the other side of the board on second to last or last pin. The positive feed comes from the relay that is not normally powered as show red. The relay contactor arm gets Positive power from the transformer pin above it. All AC power, except for the relay coil which is DC.

By 5th pin, do you mean the "pivot" or "middle" pin? Obviously I'm missing either the DC to flip the switch or the AC to go down the power leg. Any idea where the AC would come from to go to that lower pin (in your picture) that's connected to the gold contact?? I'll plug the board in and see which current I'm missing so I know where to go from there.
Thanks a TON for your time and your pictures. I sure appreciate it. Make your next one a double, on me.

 

[Ssyko]

I don't see any component with numbers like that. It looks like maybe my pictures didn't show up first time, so here they are again.

View attachment 277142View attachment 277143

Is this the Triac? How do I test it? Where else to look??
THANKS

I dont have any pics of a newer 3 speed board but we can work with yours. the little horseshoe clip is a heat sink for the triac (it pulls off straight up). remove it and you will see the part #.. the voltages on the board are 12-15vdc through the circuits. there is a straight through mains power trace that ony goes to 1 side of the triac and relay. the relay and triacs are the buffers between low voltage and mains voltage. to test the triacs they should be removed from the circuit.

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