Is my Quadrafire 1200i board bad? How can I tell?

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jzm2cc

Minister of Fire
Sep 25, 2014
583
Northern Michigan
By 5th pin, do you mean the "pivot" or "middle" pin? Obviously I'm missing either the DC to flip the switch or the AC to go down the power leg. Any idea where the AC would come from to go to that lower pin (in your picture) that's connected to the gold contact?? I'll plug the board in and see which current I'm missing so I know where to go from there.
Thanks a TON for your time and your pictures. I sure appreciate it. Make your next one a double, on me.
With 15 gold terminals total, and the igniter circuits are 14 and 15. With that in mind, count from the other end till you get to the 5th terminal, that should be the neutral side that connects to the 14th terminal, but it may be 15th as I forgot. The power for the relay contactor comes from the hot side which is upwards from the relay and on lower right side of transformer. With power off and after waiting a few minutes you should be able to trace these circuits with your ohm meter function.
 

Ssyko

Minister of Fire
Nov 6, 2017
4,203
Lorraine NY
how old is this stove and board? as JZM has pointed out pins 14 and 15 are the 2 contacts that power the igniter. on the 1200 & 1200I there is no tie in for a common to the igniter. it is its own circuit. the wire diagram is in the manual. the pin out is HERE for the relay.

visual aid
relaypower.jpg
 
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RobertL39

New Member
Mar 23, 2021
22
Aptos, California
I dont have any pics of a newer 3 speed board but we can work with yours. the little horseshoe clip is a heat sink for the triac (it pulls off straight up). remove it and you will see the part #.. the voltages on the board are 12-15vdc through the circuits. there is a straight through mains power trace that ony goes to 1 side of the triac and relay. the relay and triacs are the buffers between low voltage and mains voltage. to test the triacs they should be removed from the circuit.

A THOUSAND thanks, friend. Don't have a chance to get to it right now but I shall soon and will report back. Took the metal cover off the triac and I don't see a part number :( Hopefully it will show up when I get it off the board and can see the 4th side. I appreciate your help VERY VERY much. Wishing you many warm winters in front of the stove.
 

RobertL39

New Member
Mar 23, 2021
22
Aptos, California
it should be on the face of the component. this is just one i grabbed from my inventory. some are embedded and some are laser printed
View attachment 277173
Got it off the board but haven't had a chance to watch the video and test it yet. Part number is: 1F51 LM317

Tested it per your video. I get:
MT1 - MT2 no continuity
MT1 - MT2 bridged with probe to Gate (as suggested in the video) no continuity
MT2 - gate 0.5V

I take this to mean, per the video, that the triac is dead or fused across between MT2 and gate. Agreed?

I hate to ask, don't really want to buy 20 of them on Amazon, but do you have the correct one you could mail to me? I'd be DELIGHTED to reimbuse you via PayPal or even send you a check. Let me know. Thank you again!!!!!!!!! ;lol ;);lol==c;lol
 
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Ssyko

Minister of Fire
Nov 6, 2017
4,203
Lorraine NY
LM317 is a voltage reguator, not a triac. didn't you say that everything was working except the igniter circuit? the igniter is controlled by the relay. :confused: on another note i did run a signal through pin 5 and it is internally connected to pin 14. so jzm was correct on his assumption

if you could get a good pic of the entire board top and bottom straight on. so i can try and trace the circuit. im gonna have to buy one of these new boards so i can reverse engineer it.
 
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RobertL39

New Member
Mar 23, 2021
22
Aptos, California
LM317 is a voltage reguator, not a triac. didn't you say that everything was working except the igniter circuit? the igniter is controlled by the relay. :confused: on another note i did run a signal through pin 5 and it is internally connected to pin 14. so jzm was correct on his assumption

if you could get a good pic of the entire board top and bottom straight on. so i can try and trace the circuit. im gonna have to buy one of these new boards so i can reverse engineer it.
Razzafrazzit! Thought we had it solved. Here are pictures of the board. The 3 small holes are where I took the LM317 out. Remember I replaced the relay and it tests fine. Just not getting current. Where does the 110V come in and go? YES, everything else works normally; if I start a fire in the pot using a match the stove will run all day, no issues at all.

20210327_164846.jpg
20210327_165137.jpg


Thanks again. Sorry this is such a hassle.
 

Ssyko

Minister of Fire
Nov 6, 2017
4,203
Lorraine NY
well i may have solved the delema. looking at the top of the board with the connections at the top. shine a bright light at the back of the board and look for traces in the middle layer of the board that have vaporized and opened.
 

Attachments

RobertL39

New Member
Mar 23, 2021
22
Aptos, California
well i may have solved the delema. looking at the top of the board with the connections at the top. shine a bright light at the back of the board and look for traces in the middle layer of the board that have vaporized and opened.
1, 2 3 are held together at the base. 4 is solo. 5 thru 15 have a connecting trace which is solid. 15 is solo.
Tested the 3 blue varistors at the bottom near the gold contacts; RV1 and RV2 and RV3. They all test no continuity which apparently means they're OK. They all look the same and have the same ID on them: 5D241K.
Looking at the wiring diagram it appears that the 110V comes in to the board on the #12/gray wire gold contact. It then goes into RV3, the exit for which is #14.
I can't figure out how the 110V would ever get to the relay.
Any other ideas?
 

Ssyko

Minister of Fire
Nov 6, 2017
4,203
Lorraine NY
Have you checked the board with a bright light? the boards have changed over the years from through hole to multi layer. Revision R is a 3 layer board, half the traces you cannot follow. but some are visible with the light. if there is any burnt/vaporized in that middle layer the board is toast.

here are some more i took this morning on a rev 3 4 speed board
SAM_1745.JPG SAM_1746.JPG SAM_1747.JPG
 
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heat seeker

Minister of Fire
Feb 25, 2011
3,210
Northern CT
We have repaired some boards burned like this by jumping the burned sections with external jumpers. That's not always possible, but may work for some. It's ticklish work, and not for everyone.
 
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jzm2cc

Minister of Fire
Sep 25, 2014
583
Northern Michigan
15 connector pins total. 5th pin is neutral it also connects to 14th which is neutral for igniter. Hot comes in on 12th pin, this also goes to igniter relay contactor arm. When igniter is energized the arm connects to upper right pin when looking at backside of board with terminal pins downward. This upper right relay pin also connects to terminal 15 which provides hot feed to igniter element. Repairs can definitely be soldered in externally if needed.
 

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RobertL39

New Member
Mar 23, 2021
22
Aptos, California
Thats why i asked him to check the traces with a bright light. If they have let the smoke out. Wire will have to replace traces if possible.
OK. Here are some shots of the transilluminated board.
20210329_094347.jpg
20210329_094502.jpg


Those look like the burnt traces on your pictures.
Guess I need a new board! THANKS to all you folks for your help. It's most neighborly of you and I will be forever grateful for your kind, patient assistance.
 
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johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
3,464
Eastern Ontario
More like "deadly" smoke. Wish it would stay away from my house. Besides aluminum foil on the ceiling, you got any way to keep it out??
You forgot the tin foil hat
My stove has no boards to blow
old school analog easy to diagnose and cheap to fix
 
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RobertL39

New Member
Mar 23, 2021
22
Aptos, California
Obviously you got there way before I did. And seems like with pellets you kinda' have to have some kind of electric stuff to dump the pellets in. But what do I know? Not much.
BTW I wear the aluminum foil hat routinely, just for protection...
 
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Ssyko

Minister of Fire
Nov 6, 2017
4,203
Lorraine NY
Sorry Robert. with the skills it could be bodged up to function but it would be a task and a few components removed to access the trouble spots. looks like a good shot of voltage made it all the way back to the transformer and relay area. a new board will be the best route.
 
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RobertL39

New Member
Mar 23, 2021
22
Aptos, California
Sorry Robert. with the skills it could be bodged up to function but it would be a task and a few components removed to access the trouble spots. looks like a good shot of voltage made it all the way back to the transformer and relay area. a new board will be the best route.
10-4 good buddy. I agree but I trust your expertise and not mine. IOW I'll take your word for it!
Thanks again for all the assistance. Most kind of you.
 

RobertL39

New Member
Mar 23, 2021
22
Aptos, California
Ssyko knows but I wanted to let anyone else following this thread know that I got the thing FIXED! Couldn't have done it without Ssyko and his faithful assistance.
I replaced the circuit board. The igniter worked!
BUT
the auger would only fill the pot for the first burn and then nothing so the fire would go out. Tried the vacuum and thermocouple. Vacuum seemed to be fine--could turn it off by opening the stove door. With fire in the pot, good voltage (30vDC) at the thermocouple Hmmmm. Service manual says: thermocouple or control box. But the control box is NEW and the thermocouple tests OK. Hmmmmmm.
BUT
no LED action, either green OR red. Retested the thermocouple, still seemed OK.
Then Smart Ssyko says, "Try reversing the red and yellow thermocouple wires on the block where they attach to the control box".
El Fixomente! That did it. Now works perfectly. Nowhere did I see or read that the red and yellow wires require a specific terminal on that block, and the block isn't marked. It makes sense that the polarity would matter but it doesn't make sense that nobody bothered to mark it on the block or tell anybody about it (it's probably somewhere but I missed it--it's NOT in the big service manual!) After checking the thermocouple I obviously switched the wires when I reinstalled them onto the block. I have now marked my block with a little red electrical tape so I don't do this again! For some reason this part of the board prefers positive DC current and not the negative that I managed to have going to it.
Thanks again to all the folks who were kind enough to respond to my request for assistance and especially to Ssyko who stuck with me until we solved it! ;lol :):rolleyes:!!!:)