Jotul 550 Rockland Comments

[bholler]

With the stove totally closed down most of the flames, which are burning the smoke and gasses from the wood, go away. I only get those flames with the air control about 1/8" to 1/4" open. Totally closed down the stove makes a lot of charcoal.

We have a heat pump with air handler. I generally leave the air handler on to recirculate air through the heated area to help distribute the heat. Works pretty well, in conjunction with a couple of ceiling fans set on low, reversed to blow upward.

The freestanding stove was by CFM out of Mississauga, Ontario. Model FW300010, Certified EPA 1990. Here are a couple of photos. Installation included a Magic Heat, which was amazing!View attachment 237904 View attachment 237905 View attachment 237906

Yeah they are amazing creosote factories. One of the worst woodstoves accessories sold.

 

[Jdowdle]

Hickory will not be dry next year. If done right in the right ituation some wood can be dry in a year but that means split small stacked loosly single row and top covered with lots of air movement. Everything you are describing is typical of wet wood.

Well, one can only do what one can do. Like I said, it is hard to get two seasons ahead with a stove that consumes this much wood. Gonna give it a try, however. I should have a good bit left over after this winter unless we get a run of really cold weather. Still I have to say, I've burned wood exactly like this for the past 25 years in three other stoves with no trouble. I'm willing to grant that this new stove will take some adjustment, some getting used to. But had I been able to find real detailed reviews before I bought it I probably would have gone a different direction. No matter, it's what I have now and there's no way I can afford another stove, so I have to make this one work. I would point out that Jotul says it is a whole house heater, capable of heating 1800sf, which is what I'm trying to heat with it. Based on what some other folks here have said, that's a bit of an exaggeration. So far I'd give it a B-. We'll see if dryer wood improves it. Doesn't seem like I should have to get into complicated modifications just to get it to do what it ought to do as designed and advertised.

Here are a couple of photos of the stove as installed, just for the fun of it. It really is a handsome stove. The chimney/hearth was built in the 1970's and includes a metal 'heatilator' firebox. Thus the vents on either side. It actually had a wooden lintel (what could possibly go wrong?), which caught fire once long ago, thus the smoke stains to the left. The fireplace is massive, a full 36" high and nearly 48" wide before I shrunk it by adding brick around the sides (and replaced the wooden lintel with brick!). Still, it is 42" wide, thus the extra surround. As a fireplace it was voracious, consuming wood by the armload every hour or two and sucking cold air in through every crack in the house. Way better with an insert. ;-)

 

[Jdowdle]

Wish there

Magic Heat, a favorite around here! Get a Condar thermometer and stick it the vent a few inches back and mark it if you need to so you can read it (may need a pen light).

You want to confirm you can run it up to a good temp. When I'm cruising along it's uncomfortable to keep your hand in front of the vent. When really cranking you don't want to leave it for long at all.

Being a flush unit not saying it's the be all and end all of inserts but I'm able to get pretty good results. Just want you to get the most you can from it.

Wish there were a Magic Heat option for an insert! Been racking my brain trying to come up with a way to do it. ;-) I'll let you know if I have a brainstorm.

 

[bholler]

Well, one can only do what one can do. Like I said, it is hard to get two seasons ahead with a stove that consumes this much wood. Gonna give it a try, however. I should have a good bit left over after this winter unless we get a run of really cold weather. Still I have to say, I've burned wood exactly like this for the past 25 years in three other stoves with no trouble. I'm willing to grant that this new stove will take some adjustment, some getting used to. But had I been able to find real detailed reviews before I bought it I probably would have gone a different direction. No matter, it's what I have now and there's no way I can afford another stove, so I have to make this one work. I would point out that Jotul says it is a whole house heater, capable of heating 1800sf, which is what I'm trying to heat with it. Based on what some other folks here have said, that's a bit of an exaggeration. So far I'd give it a B-. We'll see if dryer wood improves it. Doesn't seem like I should have to get into complicated modifications just to get it to do what it ought to do as designed and advertised.

Here are a couple of photos of the stove as installed, just for the fun of it. It really is a handsome stove. The chimney/hearth was built in the 1970's and includes a metal 'heatilator' firebox. Thus the vents on either side. It actually had a wooden lintel (what could possibly go wrong?), which caught fire once long ago, thus the smoke stains to the left. The fireplace is massive, a full 36" high and nearly 48" wide before I shrunk it by adding brick around the sides (and replaced the wooden lintel with brick!). Still, it is 42" wide, thus the extra surround. As a fireplace it was voracious, consuming wood by the armload every hour or two and sucking cold air in through every crack in the house. Way better with an insert. ;-)

View attachment 237919 View attachment 237920

I understand that you have been burning wood for a while. But honestly I teach people how to safely and efficently heat with wood every day. And some of the worst offenders are long time burners. The fact that you felt the need to add a magic heat to an epa stove and the grayed paint tells me you have allot to learn about running a modern stove.

How long have you been running this insert?

 

[Jdowdle]

I understand that you have been burning wood for a while. But honestly I teach people how to safely and efficently heat with wood every day. And some of the worst offenders are long time burners. The fact that you felt the need to add a magic heat to an epa stove and the grayed paint tells me you have allot to learn about running a modern stove.

How long have you been running this insert?

This is my first season with this stove. The freestanding stove in the pix worked for 10 years providing heat for my entire house, all winter. I think a little gray paint is not out of line for that level of service. I would also say that if I had to run the stove so hot that it scorched the paint on the door, and I still had to add a Magic Heat to get enough heat out of it, then perhaps the stove was not producing enough heat. I will say that once I took most of the firebrick out of it, it probably doubled the heat output. I understand that liability concerns require that the stove not get too hot, but hot is what I want out of a stove. Making heat is job one. Everything else is secondary. I know, you're probably appalled that I took the firebrick out (I only actually took it out about halfway down the sides and back of the firebox to increase the radiant heat output). But firebrick is a really effective insulator, and the entire firebox was surrounded by it. I watched roaring fires and vast amounts of wood flaming away and wondered where all the heat was going (up the chimney). Once I took out the firebrick and added the Magic Heat, suddenly I had a stove that burned a reasonable amount of wood and heated the entire house effortlessly. I would also note that the stove recommended no flue damper. I tried it without the damper, and with the damper, and I got substantially more heat with the damper. As I see it, there are lots of theories and lots of opinions and lots of "everyone knows" facts about wood stoves, but the proof, again as I see it, is in the BTU's brought into the house, and the amount of wood burned. More heat for less wood is better, so long as the wood is being burned cleanly and the stove operated safely. I work by trial and error. What seems to safely get more heat out of the stove seems to me like a good idea. That said, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts. I don't doubt that I have much yet to learn.

 

[bholler]

This is my first season with this stove. The freestanding stove in the pix worked for 10 years providing heat for my entire house, all winter. I think a little gray paint is not out of line for that level of service. I would also say that if I had to run the stove so hot that it scorched the paint on the door, and I still had to add a Magic Heat to get enough heat out of it, then perhaps the stove was not producing enough heat. I will say that once I took most of the firebrick out of it, it probably doubled the heat output. I understand that liability concerns require that the stove not get too hot, but hot is what I want out of a stove. Making heat is job one. Everything else is secondary. I know, you're probably appalled that I took the firebrick out (I only actually took it out about halfway down the sides and back of the firebox to increase the radiant heat output). But firebrick is a really effective insulator, and the entire firebox was surrounded by it. I watched roaring fires and vast amounts of wood flaming away and wondered where all the heat was going (up the chimney). Once I took out the firebrick and added the Magic Heat, suddenly I had a stove that burned a reasonable amount of wood and heated the entire house effortlessly. I would also note that the stove recommended no flue damper. I tried it without the damper, and with the damper, and I got substantially more heat with the damper. As I see it, there are lots of theories and lots of opinions and lots of "everyone knows" facts about wood stoves, but the proof, again as I see it, is in the BTU's brought into the house, and the amount of wood burned. More heat for less wood is better, so long as the wood is being burned cleanly and the stove operated safely. I work by trial and error. What seems to safely get more heat out of the stove seems to me like a good idea. That said, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts. I don't doubt that I have much yet to learn.

Everything you said about your old install tells me you were running the stove with to much air or you had excessive draft. A modern epa stove should be able to run pretty low flue temps while putting out lots of heat. And yes the fact that you pulled the firebrick out on an install that was already lacking enough floor protection on the sides is pretty scary. I suspect with your insert you have wet wood. Once you get a good wood supply you can then start to learn how to properly run the stove.

 

[Jdowdle]

Everything you said about your old install tells me you were running the stove with to much air or you had excessive draft. A modern epa stove should be able to run pretty low flue temps while putting out lots of heat. And yes the fact that you pulled the firebrick out on an install that was already lacking enough floor protection on the sides is pretty scary. I suspect with your insert you have wet wood. Once you get a good wood supply you can then start to learn how to properly run the stove.

I always closely monitored the temps of all the surrounding areas and made sure there was ample clearance all around the stove. Nothing around the stove ever got more than slightly warm. I also kept a floor fan blowing from behind it to distribute the heat.

I think it is possible I have excessive draft with this new installation. The chimney is two stories and on the gable end, 22' tall from firebox to outlet. I think it would suck a cat out of the room it left unchecked. ;-)

 

[bholler]

I always closely monitored the temps of all the surrounding areas and made sure there was ample clearance all around the stove. Nothing around the stove ever got more than slightly warm. I also kept a floor fan blowing from behind it to distribute the heat.

I think it is possible I have excessive draft with this new installation. The chimney is two stories and on the gable end, 22' tall from firebox to outlet. I think it would suck a cat out of the room it left unchecked. ;-)

That is entirely possible

 

[Jdowdle]

This is the fire about five minutes after I added a new piece of hickory, cut, split and stacked last spring, dried all summer and fall. Opinions? What do you think? Does this look like wood that is too wet? Air control is open about 1/4". Gonna be 22f degrees tonight. Brrr! Throw another log on!

 

[bholler]

This is the fire about five minutes after I added a new piece of hickory, cut, split and stacked last spring, dried all summer and fall. Opinions? What do you think? Does this look like wood that is too wet? Air control is open about 1/4". Gonna be 22f degrees tonight. Brrr! Throw another log on!

It won't open on my phone. But right there is part of the problem. Modern stoves don't work well adding one log at a time. It works much better to load it up full and run it to coals then start over.

 

[Jdowdle]

It won't open on my phone. But right there is part of the problem. Modern stoves don't work well adding one log at a time. It works much better to load it up full and run it to coals then start over.

Interesting. That's what I do at night, of course, because I'm not sitting up all night tending the stove. Otherwise, I'd say my approach varies from one log at a time to more like what you describe. I'm happy to try more of the approach you recommend and see what happens. Thanks! I'll report back. ;-)

 

[bholler]

Interesting. That's what I do at night, of course, because I'm not sitting up all night tending the stove. Otherwise, I'd say my approach varies from one log at a time to more like what you describe. I'm happy to try more of the approach you recommend and see what happens. Thanks! I'll report back. ;-)

You load it get the stove up to temp then shut it back and let it cruise. When you start shutting back will vary greatly depending on your fuel and draft. You will have to figure out what works best for you. With my tube stove in this house I got the most heat 3/4 closed. My old house I got the most heat fully closed with one of the two key dampers closed 3/4 with the same stove. But that chimney was over 35'.

 

[EJL923]

I'm definitely hearing what you're saying. I think it is very possible that wood which was dry enough for my old stove might not be dry enough for this one. I can't do much about that this year, but I lost a couple of big hickories in the hurricanes this fall and I have already cut them up and split and stacked them. They should be pretty thoroughly dry by next fall and ought to do better. But it's pretty hard to get two seasons ahead on wood, with this stove consuming as much as it does.

I'm not sure what you mean by "doghouse air." Can you be more specific?

So you totally closed off the secondary air? Where is the stove getting air from, without that? What are the sources for primary and secondary? I'm guessing that the air control only affects the primary. Is this correct? And is it correct that secondary is what feeds the air tubes in the top of the stove?

Doghouse or zipper air is the air coming in the front bottom of the ash area, you’ll prob notice the bottom middle of your wood eating away first, you can play around with blocking these. The secondary air is not completely blocked, I actually made a slider that I can adjust with the surround off. At this point though, I haven’t touched it once it’s dialed in, it’s probably 60-70% blocked, you could prob use a magnet

 

[begreen]

With the stove totally closed down most of the flames, which are burning the smoke and gasses from the wood, go away. I only get those flames with the air control about 1/8" to 1/4" open. Totally closed down the stove makes a lot of charcoal.

We have a heat pump with air handler. I generally leave the air handler on to recirculate air through the heated area to help distribute the heat. Works pretty well, in conjunction with a couple of ceiling fans set on low, reversed to blow upward.

The freestanding stove was by CFM out of Mississauga, Ontario. Model FW300010, Certified EPA 1990. Here are a couple of photos. Installation included a Magic Heat, which was amazing!
View attachment 237904 View attachment 237905 View attachment 237906

Hickory is a slow drying wood. I think you would find quite a bit of improvement if the wood was fully seasoned.

The CFM stove shows signs of overfiring and with the stack robber this is simply not comparing apples with apples.

 

[FPX Dude]

It won't open on my phone. But right there is part of the problem. Modern stoves don't work well adding one log at a time. It works much better to load it up full and run it to coals then start over.

It's a 9.8Mb video file, took me a few minutes on a local connection, then plays about a 10sec. clip.

 

[bholler]

It's a 9.8Mb video file, took me a few minutes on a local connection, then plays about a 10sec. clip.

My phone wont open it

 

[Jdowdle]

I understand there's no real comparison between the freestanding stove with the Magic Heat and a fireplace insert. I only included it 'cause someone asked about it. I don't think it was ever overfired, but I did burn it pretty hot on some very cold nights. We've had runs or weather where the temp was 0f at night and only getting into the teens during the day. And like I said, it carried the entire house for 10 winters. That constitutes having a fire in it for about 25-30 months continuous. I think a little wear and tear on a stove that only cost $800 to start with, burning for that long, is understandable.

Sorry about the bad video.

The general consensus here seems to be that my wood is not dry enough. I think I have to agree. I have some wood left over from last winter, two years dry, and I definitely get more heat when I burn it. I'll start with that and see where I go from there. Thanks for all the comments!

 

[Jdowdle]

Someone asked about my earlier stoves. The first one I had was an Atlanta Stove Works Huntsman. It was a great stove, airtight, really long burn, and pretty economical with wood. Heated the whole house through some very cold winters back in the 90's, the likes of which we don't seem to get anymore. I remember one year when it never went out from October to a warm week in January, then again from late January through March. It was just pretty big and took up a lot of real estate in our kitchen. Used it for about 12 years. Here a pic, not mine, just pulled from the web.



My next stove was the CFM, which replaced the huntsman after about 10 years. It, too, lived in the kitchen. Used it for about 10 years. I modified it by adding a blower to the back to circulate air between the heat shield and the back of the firebox, a really good modification. Much smaller profile, and a powerful stove. Really efficient with wood, but the firebox was pretty small. Hard to get enough wood in it for a long burn.



The next stove was the Squire Insert, which overlapped with the CFM stove by a few years. It was made in the '70's I think. I had it for about seven years, mostly used in support of the freestanding stove, or for periods when it was cold but not really cold enough to crank up the big stove. I really loved the built-in damper! This stove put out a lot of heat but it had a huge firebox and consumed wood at an alarming rate! In one night I could burn wood that would have heated my house for 2-3 days in the CFM stove! Still, it was a real workhorse, really well built. My biggest complaint was how quickly the glass sooted up - about 20 minutes! But I loved having the fire in the living room, which is what prompted me to go for the Jotul.


And here's the new Jotul! Definitely the most handsome stove of the lot!

 

[Bad LP]

This is the fire about five minutes after I added a new piece of hickory, cut, split and stacked last spring, dried all summer and fall. Opinions? What do you think? Does this look like wood that is too wet? Air control is open about 1/4". Gonna be 22f degrees tonight. Brrr! Throw another log on!

You whimp!!
It's 0 here right now. Wood boiler is bringing up the tanks and the 550 is humming along. First load of wood is almost thru the chimney and I've raised the temps on the first floor from walking in at 58 and now at 69 in 3.5 hours. Time to reload the 550.

 

[Jdowdle]

You whimp!!
It's 0 here right now. Wood boiler is bringing up the tanks and the 550 is humming along. First load of wood is almost thru the chimney and I've raised the temps on the first floor from walking in at 58 and now at 69 in 3.5 hours. Time to reload the 550.

Yeah, cold here (NC) is probably not like cold there. We're heading down into the low 20's tonight, pretty normal for this time of year. Probably see some teens soon, but it's rare that it gets to low teens. Although, last year we had several days of low single digits. Still, not like the '90's. We had weeks when the thermostat never hit 32 from the underside. Just loaded up the 550 with the best, driest stuff I have. Flames dancing nicely! Cheers!

 

[Ctwoodtick]

That pic on the middle looks like something from a horror movie- very cool.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

You whimp!!
It's 0 here right now. Wood boiler is bringing up the tanks and the 550 is humming along. First load of wood is almost thru the chimney and I've raised the temps on the first floor from walking in at 58 and now at 69 in 3.5 hours. Time to reload the 550.

Yes, nice to get some colder weather around. Mid teens for southern CT tonight.

 

[wilsoncm1]

This is the fire about five minutes after I added a new piece of hickory, cut, split and stacked last spring, dried all summer and fall. Opinions? What do you think? Does this look like wood that is too wet? Air control is open about 1/4". Gonna be 22f degrees tonight. Brrr! Throw another log on!

Looks like too much air in there at first glance. It's not operating as designed. Try what others have suggested. Load it up full, let temps get up and then slowly close back the air in steps. (I usually wait 5 minutes or so after an adjustment to make sure it's still burning well) Let it burn to coals. Rinse. Repeat.

If you're not using a moisture meter and your wood has only been seasoning for a year, it's not dry enough is my bet. My stove runs MUCH better this year than last year with wood that's now 2 years dry.

 

[Jdowdle]

Looks like too much air in there at first glance. It's not operating as designed. Try what others have suggested. Load it up full, let temps get up and then slowly close back the air in steps. (I usually wait 5 minutes or so after an adjustment to make sure it's still burning well) Let it burn to coals. Rinse. Repeat.

If you're not using a moisture meter and your wood has only been seasoning for a year, it's not dry enough is my bet. My stove runs MUCH better this year than last year with wood that's now 2 years dry.

That is pretty much what I do. I load it up, give it the air it needs to get a good burn going, then back the air down as far as I can and still maintain a good burn. I think that's pretty much good basic operating principle. i think the problem is that this new stove is far more critical of moisture content than any of my previous stoves. Not sure why, but then, I don't really have to know why, only that it is. I think everyone is right, my wood is too moist. It worked fine in previous stoves but not in this one. i guess it will be a bit of a struggle this winter, but it will be better next year. That said, it's 25f outside and it's 70f inside, so I can't really complain. Also, i will say that my wife's really happy with the stove, really liking the look of the stove and the view of the fire, and the heat from it, and that's really important! The happier she is, the happier I am. Gonna be a chore to get two seasons ahead on wood! But hey, you gotta do something with your time. And if I didn't enjoy working with wood I'd just burn kilowatts and I wouldn't be on this forum talking to you folks! So, Cheers!

 

[Jdowdle]

That is pretty much what I do. I load it up, give it the air it needs to get a good burn going, then back the air down as far as I can and still maintain a good burn. I think that's pretty much good basic operating principle. i think the problem is that this new stove is far more critical of moisture content than any of my previous stoves. Not sure why, but then, I don't really have to know why, only that it is. I think everyone is right, my wood is too moist. It worked fine in previous stoves but not in this one. i guess it will be a bit of a struggle this winter, but it will be better next year. That said, it's 25f outside and it's 70f inside, so I can't really complain. Also, i will say that my wife's really happy with the stove, really liking the look of the stove and the view of the fire, and the heat from it, and that's really important! The happier she is, the happier I am. Gonna be a chore to get two seasons ahead on wood! But hey, you gotta do something with your time. And if I didn't enjoy working with wood I'd just burn kilowatts and I wouldn't be on this forum talking to you folks! So, Cheers!

Got another question. What about power failures? I'm asking because we're having another winter storm, and possibly another ice storm like we had last month. That night I had just loaded the stove before bed and it was nicely burning when the power went out. Since you can't fully close off the air, there's no way to effectively reduce the fire. After about 20 minutes, even with the air down as far as it goes, the stove smelled really hot, like the paint was cooking. I hustled up the generator and got the fans going again, and it soon cooled back down to a more reasonable temp, for a stove. But I was worried the stove could be damaged, at least. Thoughts?